How to implement jumping in a way that will make everyone happy. (hint: Zelda-style)

Okay, I know jumping is a pretty controversial subject for FFXIV, but I've been thinking it over, and I believe I've come up with a solution that everybody can be satisfied with.

World of Warcraft and most other modern MMORPGs have Mario-style jumping, in that you have a designated jump button and can jump anywhere you want, whenever you want, as often as you want.

A lot of people seem to dislike this Mario-style jumping though, as they believe seeing people jump around all the time would be distracting. Personally, I disagree, as I grew up playing Mario games and I absolutely love them, and I personally believe RPGs in general would be more fun if they incorporated more platforming elements. (Cross-genre games rule!)

However, there are a lot of people who feel that RPGs should stay RPGs, and platformers should stay platformers, and despite my own desires for an RPG platformer, there are enough people who insist on the separation of the two genres that they can't be ignored.

So clearly some kind of compromise is in order. But what? How do we implement jumping in a way that can please both parties? How do we incorporate the feature in a way that doesn't bother people who don't want to see jump-spamming, but still makes jumping useful to those who want to do it?

There have already been many lengthy discussions on the subject of jumping, but many of the suggested alternatives are brutally crippling, and remove almost all usefulness that jumping would have. These crippling alternatives include things like making the jump function into an /emote, or forcing players to access the function from a menu, or putting a long charge-up delay on the action, or other such limitations, all of which essentially castrate the versatility of jumping and make it into a useless feature. Clearly these alternatives are not the solution we're looking for.

So I propose that in place of incorporating any-time Mario-style jumping like WoW has (or any crippled alternatives of Mario-style jumping), we should instead look to Nintendo's other big flagship series: The Legend of Zelda.

Now in the Zelda games, there is no specifically designated jump button like there is in the Mario games. Instead, there is contextual jumping, in which the player's character jumps automatically in any situation where doing so would make logical sense.

Contextual jumping was sort of incorporated into FFXIII, but from what I could tell it was mostly only at specifically designated "jump-points," rather than at virtually any obstacle like in Zelda. So I say SE should incorporate jumping sort of like they had it in FFXIII, but make it more versatile like in the Zelda games.

It could work like this:

Any time the player runs directly into an object or piece of geometry that is lower than a specific height (let's say waist-high or lower, for example), the player will automatically jump onto or over it, without any input from the player whatsoever. Also, players will jump automatically whenever they run off the edge of a cliff, just like in the Zelda games. And then whenever the player encounters a very high obstacle (say chest-height or higher), the player will jump up and grab onto the edge, and then pull themselves up onto the object.

This will allow for an enormous amount of versatility and interaction with the environment, but won't enable the dreaded "jump-spamming" that so many people seem to be so paranoid about.

With Zelda-style jumping, I believe everyone could have what they want.

Sorry, that still doesn't work for me.

It won't help me when the game can't figure out that I need to jump over that pebble I'm stuck on or a 2 inch high carved piece of stone in the basement of the Mizzenmast that has been the bane of my existence since closed beta.

The problem with this suggestion is the game deciding for me. I want to be able to decide for myself with a full range of motion, which includes a manual jump.

Sorry to pop your bubble but that suggestion have been made a lot of time in other jumps topic.

The thing is some people are fine with whatever is implanted, some people are only fine with free jump, some with no jump, etc.

The reason why those topic are still active is that no matter the suggestion or compromise, it won't get universal approval.

Jumping when context allows is the same as just building a bridge in the first place or letting you walk up the difference. Completely useless and a waste of dev time to add jumping in that manner when they could just not bother with the context in which you have to jump. It adds dev work while offering nothing.

Jumping in battle could just as easily be a reaction evade. Less coding. Same result. ! Pops up, you hit enter in time. You evade. You don't hit enter in time you die.

Chocobo animations before jumping. And no jumping.

I only want jump for better role play. As well as swim. I also know content can be added for jump and swimming, which the game needs.

Auto jumping is be horrific at times. I can't tell you how often in zelda and ffxiii I ended up in jump loops. Meaning due to off putting camera angles i went back and forth between 2 or more platforms. I think ppl hate jump only because of WoW and every ffxi player seems to hate WoW. I played the game, and would prob be playing it now till fffxiv hit ps3 (even if i fixmy pc no way of knowing ffxiv will run on my pc) anyway, I rarely seen these "bunny hoppers" ppl complain about.

And personally i don't care. They are not doing anything to me personally. Infact if/when I did run into one I just laugh. Sorry but taking a game to seriously is pretty crappy. It ruins the fun of the game wheb ppl get uppity about everything you do.

What surprises me is, ppl claim to hate spam jumpers, but no one said anything bad anout emote spammers. Would someone doing /dance 4 a lot look off

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

It won't help me when the game can't figure out that I need to jump over that pebble I'm stuck on or a 2 inch high carved piece of stone in the basement of the Mizzenmast that has been the bane of my existence since closed beta.

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Well obviously it would need to be programmed very well, but if you've ever played the Zelda games, you'll notice that Link automatically jumps over anything which is that small.

Now obviously the programmers would need to program the jump function to react to the height and angle of the terrain, rather than to look for designated jump-points like in FFXIII, but that's entirely possible to do.

If you read my original post more carefully, I explain this in full detail:

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

Any time the player runs directly into an object or piece of geometry that is lower than a specific height (let's say waist-high or lower, for example), the player will automatically jump onto or over it, without any input from the player whatsoever. Also, players will jump automatically whenever they run off the edge of a cliff, just like in the Zelda games. And then whenever the player encounters a very high obstacle (say chest-height or higher), the player will jump up and grab onto the edge, and then pull themselves up onto the object.

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Hahaha, when jumping is added to the game all I'm ever going to do is jump from then on. I won't walk or run anywhere, I'll just jump. It will be the greatest feeling of all time! Better than high school prom night!

I'd be all for this, and suggested similar theories several times, as a solution of mediation that would somehow lend a hand to both camps.

Unfortnately it seems that most fans of the jump feature won't settle for any other solution than "all or nothing".
Sad, really.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I think ppl hate jump only because of WoW and every FFXI player seems to hate WoW. I played the game, and [...] I rarely seen these "bunny hoppers" ppl complain about.

And personally i don't care. They are not doing anything to me personally. In fact if/when I did run into one I just laugh. Sorry but taking a game too seriously is pretty crappy. It ruins the fun of the game when ppl get uppity about everything you do.

What surprises me is, ppl claim to hate spam jumpers, but no one said anything bad about emote spammers. Would someone doing /dance 4 a lot look off

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Hehe, yeah, I agree. I think sometimes that the only reason FF players supposedly hate jumping is because WoW has jumping, and the FF people need a reason to hate WoW, and jumping just happens to be their scapegoat, their excuse that they use to justify their stance.

But the truth is that jump-spammers in WoW are nowhere near as common as the FF fanboys would have us all believe, and even when you do encounter a jump-spammer, they're no more annoying than the /dance4 spammers you see so much in FFXI, which no one ever seems to complain about.

But nevertheless, these people are paying customers too, and I'm certainly not going to say SE should ignore the desires of their customers (that's what got them into this mess in the first place). So I think a compromise is the best solution.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

Well obviously it would need to be programmed very well, but if you've ever played the Zelda games, you'll notice that Link automatically jumps over anything which is that small.

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The last I played was SNES's The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. It's been a little while. ;)

Hrm... *rubs chin* ponderous.

Zelda style jumping! Hehe, you got to it pretty fast. Good job.

Now. Who would disagree and why? If even at the least, this was all we got instead.
(Don't disagree just to disagree, but if you legitimately don't like it)

If you can't think of a reason, good! Maybe they'll think about it.

@ Rhi
Oh i know former WoW player/rp'er. I quit just b4 ffxiv launch. And your right they are about the same in my book. If you guys hate jump spammers I hope u hate ffxi /dance4 spammers.... its the same thing.

I dislike auto jump as it can be frustrating. I'm a zelda fan more then an ff fan. And I either over jumped stuff or was in loops lasting 15+ min. When you auto jump the camera tends to follor you more so then button jump and can get in the way. And since if you hit a ledge you auto jump it can be annoying. Like trying to fall down a hole and you auto jump over it. >.> (looking at you Link. couldn't just fall down all the holes I needed you to. )
Plus you still will have auto jump spammers. ppl will jump back and forth between ledges. Which block stuff. And can be more annoying.

pro tip Zora Link was hot. I loved that fish guitar.

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Originally Posted by Tezz_Xivectro

Zelda style jumping! Hehe, you got to it pretty fast. Good job.

Now. Who would disagree and why? If even at the least, this was all we got instead.

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You know what? That's something I asked myself many times. This isn't the first time something like this has been proposed. It actually happens at least once every page of every discussion about jump. But many seem to be adamantly against it. All or nothing!

Can't wrap my head about it, and the only solution that comes to mind, is that the only reason to be so adamant about implementing that extremely awkward feature called spacebar jump, above every other solution that would be way less obnoxious, is because some can't wait to abuse it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2PyzRDoSxk as long as i can do this :p

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Originally Posted by Abriael

You know what? That's something I asked myself many times. This isn't the first time something like this has been proposed. It actually happens at least once every page of every discussion about jump. But many seem to be adamantly against it. All or nothing!

Can't wrap my head about it, and the only solution that comes to mind, is that the only reason to be so adamant about implementing that extremely awkward feature called spacebar jump, above every other solution that would be way less obnoxious, is because some can't wait to abuse it.

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not me i never spam jumped in WoW for sake of doing it. Me and my b/f went some place to not bug ppl and on a very rare occassion have a jump flip contest on our night elves.

And I said the only reason I dislike the auto jump is it can be fickle. And Zelda is the reason I said it. Auto jump pretty much is annoying. You can get stuck in Jump looping between ledges due to the camera. Or you can over shoot a jump and fall, or jump a hole.

to add Even if an auto jump ot jump emote were to be put in ppl still will find a way to spam it. So no one will be happy with jump. I like jump for role play same for swimming. But why should that really bug anyone. Players in ffxi spammed dance emotes. /dance4 was their fave. Yet no one screamed remove dance emotes. Infact and I will keep saying this, You find more players in ffxi that spamed /dance4 more often then you would find a WoW spam jumper.

Not much difference in my book.

Yay! Another jump thread!

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Originally Posted by Abriael

You know what? That's something I asked myself many times. This isn't the first time something like this has been proposed. It actually happens at least once every page of every discussion about jump. But many seem to be adamantly against it. All or nothing!

Can't wrap my head about it, and the only solution that comes to mind, is that the only reason to be so adamant about implementing that extremely awkward feature called spacebar jump, above every other solution that would be way less obnoxious, is because some can't wait to abuse it.

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Well I don't think spacebar jump is any more awkward than any other type of jump. I guess if you play enough PC games you just get used to it. And I haven't heard of anyone saying they want jumping just for the sake of abusing it, so I don't know where you're getting that from.

I don't think we need another "jump" thread.

The almighty Jump thread consumes and multiplies! That will be our endgame content! Soon as you think its over it strikes again! What heroes will join together and stop this massive beast!

I say F jumping, unless done in a ff:xiii style, or zelda. now, listen here...intead of adding jumping. what if they added a small climb feature? you ever see anybody jump in plate armor? even theoretically? not possible. You could however add a small climb feature, using a zelda type collision detection. I see a 2 inch drop? hop down. I see a 2 foot fence? I climb over. I don't have to ninja jump over those small obstacles.

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Originally Posted by Akumu

The almighty Jump thread consumes and multiplies! That will be our endgame content! Soon as you think its over it strikes again! What heroes will join together and stop this massive beast!

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The thing is, I don't know if it is possible for any of us to defeat such a foul beast. Unless we call upon Yoshi-san and the dev team to put this form on lock down and not allow any new jump threads lol.