Why so much hate against omnicrafting?

I'm extremely disappointed with the fact that with 3.1 comes recipes that will be only available for certain specializations. It feels like SE has basically no clue what's really wrong with crafting and how to make it better. If desynthesis wasn't bad enough, crafting since 3.0 has been increasingly more painful.

Crafting is, without a doubt, the part of the game that really sold the game to me. In fact, I had multiple level 50 crafts prior to even beating Haukke Manor for the MSQ. When I do decide to fight stuff, I primarily run a scholar and I am involved in a static trying to clear A1S. Still, I see my combat roles as a kind of side show to my enjoyment in FFXIV. Primarily, I enjoy crafting and helping others, which often means being a reliable source of information and gear.

I've seen so many arguments speak out against omnicrafting, but I just don't see the substance to most of them:

Omnicrafters have a huge advantage in the markets because they don't have to buy materials from other crafters/gatherers.

If there's one thing I've learned from various MMOs, it's that merchanting players will always find a way to be rich. They don't need a system like crafting to play the markets and get rich. Specialization will do nothing to stop those who are determined be super rich from being super rich.

Gil aside, time is also a valuable resource that's often ignored. If I choose to not buy materials or sub components from other players, then that means I must spend time gathering and crafting those items myself. In the end, the number of items I could possibly produce in a given amount of time that way is far less than if I had bought some of those materials or sub components.

Lastly, this argument is also often applied with regards to item pricing where omnicrafters can sell items at lower prices still for decent profit. The problem I see with this is that high prices are generally bad all around. Non-crafters looking for gear for leveling purposes along with those working on crafting leve quests greatly benefit from lower prices on the market board. Lower prices also often increase the number of potential buyers which helps items sell quicker. This point is highlighted to an even greater degree thanks to the MSQ raining HQ leveling gear on players. Much of the unused gear ends up on the MB at prices that are hard to compete with since 3.0 made crafting a much more costly endeavor. If, as an omnicrafter, I don't see much room to compete with the MSQ reward surplus, I doubt a non-omnicrafter would either.

Specialization helps non-omnicrafters stay competitive with omnicrafters.

Sure would be nice if it actually worked that way. It might actually help to get more people into crafting. The problem is, the specialist skills are pretty much garbage forcing you to still rely on a large number of cross class skills to handle any real crafting.

In my opinion, specialization should have given skills that so powerful that without any cross class kills at all, a player could generally HQ any craft. This would mean:

• Players leveling 1-3 crafting classes would be able to craft anything from those classes without making them feel like they must level other crafting classes. This would greatly benefit those who limit their crafting for RP purposes or because of time constraints.
• An omnicrafter working outside of a specialty competing against a non-omnicrafter working within their specialty would do so on equal footing.
• An omnicrafter working within one of their chosen specialties would possibly have a much easier time. Honestly I see nothing wrong with it as they did take extra time to level multiple classes for that bonus. On the other hand, specialist actions could also just be made in such a way to conflict with cross-class skills (such as making them work like battle classes and simply disallow cross class skills with the stone equipped).

For the above to work, however, SE would have to make sure that even the hardest crafts should be doable with either all cross class skills available (without specialization skills) or with specialization (without cross class skills).

Basically, if we continue down the current route, omnicrafters will either level alts to cover everything or be forced to specialize and give up a part of what they like to do. Players that do specialize without leveling other crafting classes continue being at a disadvantage because the existing skills don't make up for the lack of cross class skill. Additionally, players with a casual interest in crafting remain at a distance because they continue to face the reality that they'd have to spend a lot of time (or gil) to level multiple crafting classes to significant levels just to have a shot of being good at 1 or 2. Seriously, who actually wins in the current setup?

These changes will help force omnicrafters to interact more with other players and cooperate.

This is honestly a terrible argument I've seen from time to time. If omnicrafters truly didn't interact with anyone, they wouldn't have any impact in the community or market board at all. That's obviously not the case or it would imply that people that make this argument are simply arguing for the sake of arguing.

Instead of helping with cooperation, I see this as hurting it. From the beginning, I recognized FFXIV's crafting system as being something complicated enough and time consuming enough that a very significant part of the player base would not have much interest in getting involved in it. Omnicrafting, for me, was the natural solution to finding my place in the game as I could be my FC's one-stop shop for leveling gear at prices that wouldn't break the bank. In fact, I've spent so much time helping out FC mates with gear and such that I haven't capped Esos in months (with several weeks of earning exactly 0). If SE continues to harm omnicrafting, this will eventually lead to people like me having to simply say "sorry, can't do that craft at all" forcing them to have to go to someone else and probably pay a ridiculous price. If I do that enough times, people will begin to forget that I craft at all, at which point my interaction with others suffers. Of course, you could just say that other FC members could step up and specialize in the other crafting classes, but that's unlikely to work unless the FC had a bunch of omnicrafters to begin with. My FC, for instance, only has one other omnicrafter, but they aren't very active currently. The other members who have leveled some crafting classes lack the cross class skills to work on anything important and don't have the time or motivation to level more crafting classes.

The over-reliance of cross class skills in crafting sort of makes omnicrafting a necessity for those of us who are primarily crafters. I take a lot of pride in crafting my fc members pieces of furniture that they want or gear that they need. I enjoy putting rarer, more expensive crafts on the mb to sell. But leveling multiple classes can be a huge gil sink and many people just find crafting to be boring. So now by forcing us to choose three classes to main, they're saying that all the work we put in leveling for those cross class skills (which SE made a necessity in the first place) was wrong. Now, they suddenly don't like omnicrafters. I get it. I do. Omnicrafters are almost completely self sufficient. I mean, I'm not an OC yet ( but I'm well on my way), but I don't have a massive horde of gil(what people claim this system is trying to fight). A lot of omnicrafters don't have a massive amount of gil. In fact, all of the raiders I know have more gil than all of the OCs that I know. This system is just making the handful of people who loved crafting feel alienated and unwilling to continue participating(or at least the ones that I know).

TL;DR Omnicrafters aren't the problem when it comes to community and gil hording, and this system won't solve the economy problems

specialization wont affect much, i mean its not like they are locking half the recipes avaiable to a single craft. their locking 4-5 items, at least right now. and its not even a permanent thing. just like you atm have a some recipes locked behind a master book. at least on this patch that seems to be i185 gear only (if are even those that are specialized), thats just gonna end up beeing for glamour, because everyone will have acess to higher ranked gear wit the cap removal on alexander normal.
it wont suddenly change the game and hurt all of those that dont choose a specialization. i seen several crafters that have stuck with only 1 or two crafts and are fine with it, because they dont want the hassle that means having more crafts (yes you can synth it all, but it does take a toll, specially inventory wise), with specializationt hey will stick to those same classes, this wont really affect them.

Yes, you can just have one to two DoH classes. But for end game crafting, for the people who are "career crafters" like me and OP, you absolutely need the cross class skills. There are multiple threads explaining 1-4 star crafting rotations(especially for hq and for collectables). CCS's are definitely a necessity. Sure, a lot isn't changing right now with specialization. But for any recipes to be intentionally gated to discourage omnicrafting is unfair to those of us who choose to omnicraft. Time is a valuable resource, especially in this game; for us to choose our own play style and then be introduced to a mechanic that discourages the way we choose to(and pay to) play the game is something worth bringing attention to. Does it affect much right now? No. Will it? Potentially. And if we wait on that potential eventuality to express our feelings on it, it would be too late. If they'd like to discourage omnicrafting, I wouldn't be upset if they made it so that we don't need cross class skills. I don't enjoy leveling ARM, BSM, or CUL(especially not CUL, despite it being the most profitable class on siren right now), and yet some of the skills are deemed necessary for end game crafting. In short, either find another way to make specialization relevant or get rid of the ridiculously heavy reliance on cross class skills; this, however, won't discourage the super rich players from being super rich(like OP said), nor will it help crafters(except to make more money due to the fact that only their class can craft the most profitable items(potentially)). Not to be a negative nancy, but this isn't a good system. A lot of things are starting to look like bad design these days, tbh.

I think that reason is more prosaic. SE is interested to motivate players to play as long as possible. And they should have what to do. So, ARR crafters were motivated to levelup 8-10 classes due to crossklass skills. Single 50 class in ARR could miss crosskil and became unable to craft star items. HW added some crosskills, so omnicraft is not dead. Soul system has some motivation elements. If u want to change soul - it costs 480 reds. A lot of gametime.

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Originally Posted by -BlueGreen-

Players leveling 1-3 crafting classes would be able to craft anything from those classes without making them feel like they must level other crafting classes. This would greatly benefit those who limit their crafting for RP purposes or because of time constraints.

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This. This is exactly what Specialties were pitched as being about. There were also not supposed to be any specialist recipes at all... specialties were added to even the playing field between those that had time to get all their crafts to 50 and those that did not. They failed to do that because Specialty skills are too gimmicky and RNG dependent to be used, and very few of the specialty skills actually do their job in replacing cross-class skills from other classes. Whistle While You Work is a great idea for all those 100 durability items we craft... except we don't have any of those... we have 80 and 70 and 40 and 35 durability items. To put it bluntly, the Specialist skills are skills that are optimally designed for crafts that don't exist.

That said... switching specialties isn't particularly difficult, so I'm not really sure what kind of a negative impact specialist crafts will actually have on omnicrafters. At worst, I'm going to have to make a few items for scrips to swap between them, and I might put a bit more forethought into what I'm making for the week... but I don't see it keeping me from being able to craft everything in the game still... just slowing me down a bit.

Also... I don't think omnicrafters participate less in the market than non-omnicrafters do... and I say this as someone who both has an omnicrafter and an alt who's just a lvl 50 leatherworker. When I need something on my omnicrafter, lots of times I'll go gather it myself and craft the components myself... but if I have the money and the parts are cheap enough (as determined by supply and demand), I'll buy them off the market. More buyers on the market drives up prices and drives omnicrafters out of the market again... so omnicrafters aren't "non-participants", they're equilibrium adjusters that come in and keep materials from bottoming out too low for non-omnicrafters to make a decent profit off of them.

Likewise, with my lvl 50 leatherworker, if I have the money, I buy components off the market... but when I don't have money, and can't make them myself, I ask guildmates or my crafting linkshell to make the items for me (transferring items from my omnicrafting character is too much of a hassle unless I have no other alternative). So, even when I don't have all the skills, my participation in the market is determined by supply and demand, and drops if the prices go too high. If anything, finding a way to force omnicrafters to participate in the market would only stagnate the market by vastly increasing demand relative to supply, and there would likely be quite a bit of lag time before the supply would catch up.

That's the other thing about economic arguments that people tend to forget about... it's not just regular crafters and omnicrafters... the other two legs of this economy are raiders and gatherers. Raiders get dropped resources that are essential for many of the high end crafts that crafters make, and gatherers drive the lion's share of supply and demand. If you want to fix crafter participation in the market, you're really looking at increasing drop rates and gathering rates to allow those groups of players to increase the relative supply and bring the prices for items down to a level that crafters deem reasonable. This is especially the case when it comes to the crafting items from Favor gathering that, 5 months after Heavensward launched, are still in the millions each on some servers.

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Originally Posted by CatfishCassie

This. This is exactly what Specialties were pitched as being about. There were also not supposed to be any specialist recipes at all... specialties were added to even the playing field between those that had time to get all their crafts to 50 and those that did not. They failed to do that because Specialty skills are too gimmicky and RNG dependent to be used, and very few of the specialty skills actually do their job in replacing cross-class skills from other classes.

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I believe they were planning on specialist recipes months before HW launched, but held back on them until they received a lot of requests following it's launch. The main problem with specialization is that it can be combined with all of your cross class skills, meaning that the developers had to design them in a way that allows a single class crafter to HQ high level recipes, yet not completely break the balance for crafters who do use level 50 cross class abilities.

They technically do work with a single class under average RNG (I've experimented with a 1* recipe from 0 quality and can confirm that you can HQ it without level 50 skills), but if unlucky, you'll run into problems with CP, and the cost of delineations will add up. As a result, the crafting process is more difficult, expensive, and unpredictable. Reclaim (a Level 50 cross class skill) will also likely be required at times to salvage your crafts unless you're willing to accept the occasional NQ product.

sorry couldnt finish my post earlier so here it goes the rest (daily limits ><;)
i find it ok, that they give each craft a special thing of their own, with specialization. give it a few months and they will probably remove red scrips cap, and one will be able to switch between them all with a little effort.
i'm a omnicrafter, i can do every single 2 star lv 60 synth, got all master books etc etc. do i enjoy beeing able to have full acess to everything? yes, but i can tell you also i have not synthed every single item from lv1 to 60** list, maybe i have done 90% of them. do i find the fact that 5 synths from other crafts may be locked away from my acess upsetting? not really, there will be a high chance that i wouldnt make them anyway, wont know till we know exactly wich they are. this doesnt really destroy OC in any way, its not like has a specialist you cannot use cross skills. it is possible to hq things with just 1 craft, it just takes effort.. a lot of it, but its possible.
ps: they do need to better up the specilist skills though.

Yes but it's a few recipes for right now. It will be more later. It's always more later. I understand that they want to bring the community together. But for me, being an omnicrafter is the best route for me to take. I don't particularly enjoy doing content with strangers(via the DF), so I picked up crafting to fill my time while I waited for my friends and husband to log in. The problem with relying on other crafters comes with the issue of them taking a break from the game at any time for any reason. Sure, I can ask my husband to turn his lvl 60 BSM into his specialist, but he's been on hiatus for two months now. My friend, who's a lvl 52 ARM, had to take a hiatus due to console failure while we were in the middle of a company project, which made me spend three days leveling my ARM to 50 so that I can do the turn ins. Relying on others means you are at the mercy of their whims. New game comes out and they leave? Welp, there goes your CRP specialist. Pre-patchmas lull and they unsub until the new patch comes out? Oops, your GSM specialist is gone. Each server's economy can be vastly different. But on many servers, this has a huge chance of being exploited; larger FCs and people who already have a super tight knit group that also crafts can(and sometimes will) run the market board, especially in this new system. The problems that exist with crafting won't be solved by an exclusionary system like this. Had they just done what was intended and made it to where we didn't need the cross class skills from other crafting classes, that would have been more than enough to discourage omnicrafting. I mean, if the specialist skills did that, what reason would new blood have for omnicrafting? I sure as hell didn't want to put the time into leveling up all of the classes, and here we are, all because I need the skills to make my multi-star items and master crafts. All of my crafting friends feel the same way. And nearly all of them have stopped crafting because of the direction this system is headed in.

The problem is that SE won't stop gating unnecessary things. There's not enough housing for people and personal housing costs as much as fc housing. There's a level requirement on buying a personal room in a house. These supposedly teensy tiny details that don't really effect the game much at all make a huge difference to those of us who are here for things like RP or just supporting friends by crafting or for those FC's who want to buy all of their members personal rooms but can't until each one hits level 50. There's so much going wrong, and many many people feel the same way about specialist gated crafting. And for those of us who don't have hours upon hours each and every night to sink into the game, 480 red scrips just to change specialization is a lot of time and effort wasted. I'm not saying the problems with crafting or any area of this game are easily fixed; I just honestly believe we're being treated as though we're too stupid to know what it is we want to see from something we pay to supposedly enjoy.

(as an aside, even with so many DoHs leveled up, sometimes I just get really lazy and buy the things off the MB instead of spending the time and mats to make them myself. I'm pretty broke because I get lazy a bit too much....I'm so ashamed lol. When I sell pricey items I just leave them there until they finally sell; idc about how fast they move or about undercutting at all. They'll sell when they sell.)

The whole concept of specialization is a joke. Weaver gets a whole bunch of glamour and even potentially useful stuff... ALchemy gets a single outdoor tree. YAY

lol poor alchemists be like
https://33.media.tumblr.com/c3323be0...amj8o1_500.gif
But seriously though, these aren't the changes that were needed to make things more accessible or fun or to discourage omnis.

Ive been a omnicrafter since 2.0 I had 3 crafters lvl 50 before I got my main class lvl 50. I dont mind what they are doing this allows more players to make money on a craft without having to be a master in all crafters. This will open up a new ecconomy for crafters and I like it.

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Originally Posted by Alx789

I think that reason is more prosaic. SE is interested to motivate players to play as long as possible. And they should have what to do. So, ARR crafters were motivated to levelup 8-10 classes due to crossklass skills. Single 50 class in ARR could miss crosskil and became unable to craft star items. HW added some crosskills, so omnicraft is not dead. Soul system has some motivation elements. If u want to change soul - it costs 480 reds. A lot of gametime.

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In that case they could have just put the specialist recipes in a new book with no specialist requirement, charged 480 red scrips and called it a day.

If there only goal was to keep people playing.

Specialization will not affect me at all. All I need to do is create more characters, get them to heavensward, and its done. I have money for that, I don't mind. Its just a delay for my business, but when I get hold of it, I'll do every materials and recipes in the game, alone.

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Originally Posted by Ronivan

Specialization will not affect me at all. All I need to do is create more characters, get them to heavensward, and its done. I have money for that, I don't mind. Its just a delay for my business, but when I get hold of it, I'll do every materials and recipes in the game, alone.

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It's great that people have the time to not be phased by this at all. But there are many, many players who don't have the time to level two alts to heavensward in order to have access to everything. The fact of the matter is that specialist doesn't work the way they intended and in order to "fix" it, SE decided to add unnecessary gating, as they are wont to do. We're being forced into relying on others for stuff we've always been able to just do ourselves if we wanted it bad enough. It's just wholly pointless.

What Jomoru said: I'm sure my name is well known for crafting on my server and spending. But like OP said it's not that hard to play the markets. I wanted to be rich I figured it out. Fuck Gil buying. I'd rather spend that cash irl for something tangible.

Specialization does nothing really. If I want t make a bunch of stuff I switch to a new soul crystal do it and then I'm done. Not to mention the stuff you can craft, aside from housing items, is ugly as all hell...... o/

Punishing me for leveling all my crafters is a load of garbage and if SE doesn't figure this out quickly the next mmo to cater to the community is going to crush FFXIV which was and still can be the best of the best. JUST STOP SCREWING WITH THE GOOD STUFF!!!!

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Originally Posted by Ronivan

Specialization will not affect me at all. All I need to do is create more characters, get them to heavensward, and its done. I have money for that, I don't mind. Its just a delay for my business, but when I get hold of it, I'll do every materials and recipes in the game, alone.

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It's not just the gil, it requires quite a bit of time to reach Illdyshire and get 8 crafting classes to 50+. I have 3 mules there, and it took a few months at 30 minutes a day each to get through ARR, then another month of about the same to get to end game. That was just using daily bonuses and leves, if you want to rush it you're looking at a few hundred hours of playtime each.

If you started now, going 8 hours a day, you might be able to reach that point by 3.2 on two alts. Just make sure you main a healer or tank for the queue times.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

It's not just the gil, it requires quite a bit of time to reach Illdyshire and get 8 crafting classes to 50+. I have 3 mules there, and it took a few months at 30 minutes a day each to get through ARR, then another month of about the same to get to end game. That was just using daily bonuses and leves, if you want to rush it you're looking at a few hundred hours of playtime each.

If you started now, going 8 hours a day, you might be able to reach that point by 3.2 on two alts. Just make sure you main a healer or tank for the queue times.

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I agree with you dude, and you are quite right about it, it takes a lot of time for this. But think about it, in the future, it will be all about Specialization recipes, we are not wasting time doing multiple characters to cover all specialization, we are investing in the future, our future. Its worth the time and the effort.

"When one has nothing to lose, one has everything to gain."

Except I literally just made mention of how not everyone has that kind of time to spend on a video game. Why would we put ourselves through all the extra drama when we could actually let SE know, as paying customers, we think this is bullshit? It's really really great people don't mind wasting time like that, but for a lot of us it's just that: a waste of time. Leveling crafters to endgame can sometimes already be a gil sink. We don't need it to be more of a time sink too. It can be assumed that omnicrafters have put a ton of time and gil into what they do, so why should we be forced to level extra characters because SE is screwing up?

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Originally Posted by AnnietheCat

Except I literally just made mention of how not everyone has that kind of time to spend on a video game. Why would we put ourselves through all the extra drama when we could actually let SE know, as paying customers, we think this is....

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I totaly agree with you, and also I don't believe SE will change anything. Time wasting for us mean more subscription paid for them. Also please note that the game main focus is not the disciple of hand or land, its the disciple of war/magic, its battle. It will matter little if they screw up the life of the crafters, because they are trying to get rid of omnicrafters likes me. SE don't want you to master all jobs, so they forced down the gamers throat Specialization, they want you and me to trade between ourselves. I don't think they will change it, I think they will push even more on Specialization recipes. So people who have time will create multiple alts to cover it. We can try, but I don't think SE will ever change it.

A big focus of this game is accessibility. They purposely make it easier and easier so more people can play ( and sub). They're whole business plan is catering to the lowest common denominator.

The intention with specialization was to make it easier for players to get into crafting. It just didn't quite achieve what they had intended.

Do I agree with it? No. I love the idea of omnicrafting.
Do I understand their intention ? Yes.

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Originally Posted by SnugglesD

Do I understand their intention ? Yes.

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Intention isn't the same as implementation. Do I understand their intent? Yup. Do I like the theory of what they intended? You bet your lalafell bottom I do. However what they intended and what we got are two separate things entirely. This was meant to help newer players and make it so that omnicrafting wasn't an absolute necessity to get anywhere in crafting. But that's not what we're getting. The new system pretty much punishes omnicrafters by saying "oh you spent all this time and gil on all these classes? Well, you won't be able to do much with them in the future".

The skills are pretty awful and don't really get rid of the need for cross class skills. The need to spend scrips on delineation or whatever they're called in order to actually use some of those skills is really crappy. I do see where they were trying to go, but they can't seem to introduce new features without alienating a group of players. So while they may be geared towards making new subs, they should really consider keeping the ones they have. I know 10 people who mainly craft who have unsubbed already. My hubby is considering unsubbing, and I'm considering it too(I would have by now if I didn't have my FC). SE can do better, but they don't seem to be all that interested in listening to their players any more.

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Originally Posted by AnnietheCat

Intention isn't the same as implementation. Do I understand their intent? Yup. Do I like the theory of what they intended? You bet your lalafell bottom I do. However...".

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I like your idea, and its really whats happening. SE is doing that with all Final Fantasy series of late, changing the game in a way to get different customers, but killing the fans they already have. In the end they will lose both new players and old fans.

I've only started crafting myself so I don't know how much weight my comments hold. My highest crafting class is 51. That said, as I've gotten more classes to 50, I've found myself buying fewer processed materials (ingots) and more raw materials (ore). So I think omnicrafters benefit different markets than monocrafters, or even polycrafters. Omni benefits gatherers, and omni and poly benefit each other. So I see nothing wrong with omnicrafting.

100% agree.

Best solution is to fix the system for all.

Step 1: Free the specialist recipes for all to craft, and remove desynth cap

Step 2: Buff specialist skills, but make specialist stones limit the number of cross class skills like any other job soul stone.

Now specialization does what was intended. Monocrafter specialists have a leg up to compete with omnicrafters and not be too disadvantaged, but omnicrafters are not needlessly punished for dedicating themselves to the time and effort required to level them all up.


But seriously remove the desynth cap. Make "for beginners" books give double desynth rank increase for your next 15 points earned in that class or something instead of resets (keep them valuable under the improved system)


Edit: Upon freeing up the specialist recipes, perhaps replace them with a specialist version of the recipe, beneficial in being either cheaper in terms of materials or easier to craft with a lower max quality/progress needed to reach 100%. Now you also get that extra benefit for specialists without needing to punish omnicrafters.

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Originally Posted by Callback

100% agree.

Best solution is to fix the system for all.

Step 1: Free the specialist recipes for all to craft, and remove desynth cap

Step 2: Buff specialist skills, but make specialist stones limit the number of cross class skills like any other job soul stone.

Now specialization does what was intended. Monocrafter specialists have a leg up to compete with omnicrafters and not be too disadvantaged, but omnicrafters are not needlessly punished for dedicating themselves to the time and effort required to level them all up.


But seriously remove the desynth cap. Make "for beginners" books give double desynth rank increase for your next 15 points earned in that class or something instead of resets (keep them valuable under the improved system)

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Yes, yes this!
You, I like you. :D

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Originally Posted by Callback

100% agree.

Best solution is to fix the system for all.

Step 1: Free the specialist recipes for all to craft, and remove desynth cap

Step 2: Buff specialist skills, but make specialist stones limit the number of cross class skills like any other job soul stone.

Now specialization does what was intended. Monocrafter specialists have a leg up to compete with omnicrafters and not be too disadvantaged, but omnicrafters are not needlessly punished for dedicating themselves to the time and effort required to level them all up.


But seriously remove the desynth cap. Make "for beginners" books give double desynth rank increase for your next 15 points earned in that class or something instead of resets (keep them valuable under the improved system)

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Beautiful idea! Hope SE apply this, would be good for everyone.

Sorry about not getting back to my own thread for a while. Work has kept me busy lately. I totally agree with this as desynth is another problem area, although I kind of don't like the desynth system to begin with. Granted, after 3.1 upped the desynth exp the way it did it hasn't been quite as bad to level it.

Seriously, though, it's like I make something, then break it apart and go "oh, how'd that get there?" I suppose that's mostly meant for breaking down things like weapons from primals for parts, but they could have just made desynth success rate based off of your crafting level rather than it be its own thing. It's not like most of the stuff worth desynthing is tradeable anyway.

The problem is that Square have designed a crafting system that requires (or at least, strongly encourages) omnicrafting from level 1-50.

Introducing Specialisation at 50+ solves nothing. Players still need to level everything to 50 first, and after grinding every crafting class to 50, limiting yourself to just three feels wrong. It doesn't feel like you gain anything, but instead you have quite a lot taken away.

If they wanted crafting to be more appealing to players with limited time, then specialisation should have been offered at level 10 (or somewhere similar), but that would have meant implementing a completely different system. You can't have ingredients from other classes required for leves and quest turn-ins if players can only get them from the Market Board; limited supply and/or unaffordable prices could prevent players levelling.

Considering how being able to do everything on one character is one of this game's biggest selling points and considering how highly praised the crafting from 1-50 was, HW crafting feels like a classic developer-fix to something that wasn't actually broken.

@ Callback
I support your ideas 100%
They would make specialisation feel worthwhile for people who only want to level a few crafting classes without punishing those of us who wish to continue omnicrafting.
I agree about the desynthing cap, too.

Patch 3.15 is coming. Lets see what next thing SE will do to insult us, the crafters. Craft in FFXIV is slowly dying, I think its time to give a break to this game.

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Originally Posted by Solarra

Introducing Specialisation at 50+ solves nothing. Players still need to level everything to 50 first, and after grinding every crafting class to 50, limiting yourself to just three feels wrong. It doesn't feel like you gain anything, but instead you have quite a lot taken away.

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Yeah, they probably should have made it something that you could unlock for every crafting class at level 30+, just like jobs for DoW/DoM. That would have given them several more levels to work with for specialist skills making it much easier to make cross classing for specialists more limited or disabled completely justifying having powerful specialist actions. It's not too terribly hard to do all of the crafting quests 1-30 without cross class skills, I'd imagine, especially given how you don't need a high quality turn-in until starting with the level 25 quest. That, and not limited it to HW only.

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Originally Posted by -BlueGreen-

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I completely agree with you. That would make specialist more appealing to everyone, and people originally unwilling to get into crafting might be more willing to try it out. I was originally put off by crafting(and unsubbed for a time because of it), because I felt like there was an over-reliance on cross class skills, and that I was forced into leveling more than one class. If new players feel this way too, it causes the same irritation I felt. So unlocking specialist at level 30(and having the guy who gives you the soul stones move to another place entirely, so that it isn't HW gated) would help a lot of people not feel like they absolutely have to omnicraft and it wouldn't punish those of us who do omnicraft(as the current system does).

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Originally Posted by -BlueGreen-

This is honestly a terrible argument I've seen from time to time. If omnicrafters truly didn't interact with anyone, they wouldn't have any impact in the community or market board at all. That's obviously not the case or it would imply that people that make this argument are simply arguing for the sake of arguing.
Instead of helping with cooperation, I see this as hurting it. From the beginning, I recognized FFXIV's crafting system as being something complicated enough and time consuming enough that a very significant part of the player base would not have much interest in getting involved in it. Omnicrafting, for me, was the natural solution to finding my place in the game as I could be my FC's one-stop shop for leveling gear at prices that wouldn't break the bank. In fact, I've spent so much time helping out FC mates with gear and such that I haven't capped Esos in months (with several weeks of earning exactly 0). If SE continues to harm omnicrafting, this will eventually lead to people like me having to simply say "sorry, can't do that craft at all" forcing them to have to go to someone else and probably pay a ridiculous price.
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sorry but that's your view on this ,and i don't think impact on marketboard can be called "interaction with other players" its more creating a tension between some players since they see each other as competitors, so far my interactions (with customer players) are restricted to "hi how much is this?ok thanks take this bye" even now!
i see it as a reason to interact with other CRAFTERS and create a friendly community with them instead of seen them as competitors . and i have to say it worked out great for me and my friends and some high end crafters on server im playing on.
i see your point here but i disagree with it , since in my FC we have 2-3 crafters covering all specialist (none of them were omnicrafters before 3.0) and if i can't craft the things they want i send people to them, if they are not online,i interacted with some friendly crafters and told them if they need items from my specialists they can ask me and i ask them to make what i need.
so if the point of specialist is anything close to encouraging friendly interactions it already served its purpose for me, and it also takes the pressure of one person that everyone keep asking to craft something all day long ,not allowing them to do anything for themselves which you might know can be a pretty rough experience. if you say no to people who asks you for items you are already hurting that interaction,if they see you busy with other people orders over and over they eventually give up and ask others or buy from market.
also i mentioned this in another topic that specialists recipes are the only thing that keep some players from completely taking over the market since they have nothing better to do than being online and camping on summoning bell to undercut others :)

what i do agree with is that specialists deserve better rewards such as stat and more useful skills even if its through trials like lvling up the soul of crafters to increase stat or skills that makes it easier for them to craft items in that said class compared to non-specialists an edge that gives meaning to the "specialist" name

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Originally Posted by Nylisa

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Specialist does none of these things you mention to help the buyer at all. The skills are horrible and the recipes are causing MULTIPLE monopolies on items. Which in turn hike the prices up. These systems were in tented for new people to start crafting and failed miserably at best. Finding a specialist that won't overcharge you is also hard to come by. (My server)

This did not help nobody but hinder alot of crafters that put the time and effort to get all crafts lvled up and geared.

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Originally Posted by Ranzan

Specialist does none of these things you mention to help the buyer at all. The skills are horrible and the recipes are causing MULTIPLE monopolies on items. Which in turn hike the prices up. These systems were in tented for new people to start crafting and failed miserably at best. Finding a specialist that won't overcharge you is also hard to come by. (My server)

This did not help nobody but hinder alot of crafters that put the time and effort to get all crafts lvled up and geared.

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i agree it didn't but that wasn't the point of specialist in the first place.sadly , on my server im trying to help as many people as i can all i ask is them to bring me materials i barely take 10-50K from them for crafting specialist items to cover my own expanses like crystals and clusters but it aint enough :)

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Originally Posted by Nylisa

i agree it didn't but that wasn't the point of specialist in the first place.sadly , on my server im trying to help as many people as i can all i ask is them to bring me materials i barely take 10-50K from them for crafting specialist items to cover my own expanses like crystals and clusters but it aint enough :)

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what was this specialist system for then if I wasn't intended for easier accessibility to crafting like they stated? Cause why do you want people to have market monopolies and price hikes?

Specialist system caused more damage to the game than helped it, and I hope SE removes this soon. Most of time in-game (90% of it) is spend crafting or farming materials, so I felt deeply hurt by this fail system. For now we can acquire any craft gear very easily, the problem will be when you will need Specialization to get new Craft and Gatherer Gear.
Crafting was one of my greatest pleasures in this game, now its facing a slow death. When my subscription ends, it will remain so until this stupid system is removed.

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Originally Posted by -BlueGreen-

Why so much hate against omnicrafting?...

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IMO it was because previously some posts requested something like below example,
I only fishing, I deserve to be the best fisher, other fishers who also do mining should not have better fishing than me.
So when some ppl have this concept in mind, they make suggestion to buff their "specialist", however, the implementation is just nerf yourself overally. ^^;

When they implemented desynth with classes restriction, ppl should know it will expand to crafting.
Moreover, it is predictable one day battle classes will have similar restriction.