I have a dream! Who's the best? Non-spammable contents.

"One day, i would like to see a raid, a hard raid, an epic raid,
which cannot be spammed every 5/10 minutes, but once or twice per week.
The day i'll see this kind of content, there you'll see which is the best LS
and who are the best players all over the world..." (Popdai 5 - 15.32)

The so called "best LS" or "best players" at the moment, are only the players
who can play more then the others (no-school, no-family, no-work, no-life <.<). I cannot call them "best players", because
you can't prove how much you are "good" if you can spam hard content every day
100 times per day.
We need a NON-SPAMMABLE hard content, something that will make me say: "You are
the best LS of this game!" and not "You beat it first because you play 24/7 and
tried it 200 times..."

Am i the only one who's thinking about this?

PS: Sorry for my english, it is not very good, but i think it's "understandable" <.<'

I believe you meant to post here: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/

OMG don't post that filthy game on these holy and sacred forums damn :O
We play games with taste not game made for lowlifes lol.
yuk

I hate WoW, i've never even reached the level cap....

But seriously, we need something which is difficult to achieve!

Since when is time restriction = skill? content don't suddenly become difficult just because u add 24hr timer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Since when is time restriction = skill? content don't suddenly become difficult just because u add 24hr timer.

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True, unless it's a 25 hour fight. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Since when is time restriction = skill? content don't suddenly become difficult just because u add 24hr timer.

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Simply because after 200 continous tries, if you don't kill it, you're dumb....

If you have non-spammable contents, you are forced to be as focused as possible because you know that you can't try the same hard content for the next 2 days.
Then if you cannot spam it, you must be perfect when you enter.

Contents will last longer and the sense of achievement will be higher.

I agree with you Pop, I really do, but unfortunately the main idea behind most MMOs is time-sinking. Creating that sort of addiction that will make you play for hours on end, just for that next step.

By this definition most content HAS to be repeatable, otherwise you could risk the people who fail it losing interest in the game.

And while some hard fights do require lots of skill and strategy, MMOs are hardly difficult at all compared to other genres like high level fighting game play or RTSs.

Add perma death raid, now that's what I call difficult.

Oops.

Having played WoW for a number of years, I actually find the ability to spam raids to farm gear quite a refreshing change for the better. You have the *option* to farm your gear faster if you have the time, or just do a few runs in the weekend if you don't have so much time. Key point here being you make the choice, not the game.

And honestly, whatever the system was, the SAME LS's would come out on top, it would change absolutely nothing in that respect.

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Originally Posted by neizero

Having played WoW for a number of years, I actually find the ability to spam raids to farm gear quite a refreshing change for the better. You have the *option* to farm your gear faster if you have the time, or just do a few runs in the weekend if you don't have so much time. Key point here being you make the choice, not the game.

And honestly, whatever the system was, the SAME LS's would come out on top, it would change absolutely nothing in that respect.

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I don't think so ^^

And if what you say will take effect, i'll be the first to say
"you're the best" to that LS ^^

The point is: spamming a raid/fight, and finish it after 200 tries (in 4 days),
does not mean you're good, but only you don't have a social life.
Having a raid 2 days per week, and be the first to finish it, means you
have studied the fight and you have good players.

200 tries with 2 tries per week = 100 weeks = 700 days
good players? good LS? i don't think so ^^

My 2 cents :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by popdai

Simply because after 200 continous tries, if you don't kill it, you're dumb....

If you have non-spammable contents, you are forced to be as focused as possible because you know that you can't try the same hard content for the next 2 days.
Then if you cannot spam it, you must be perfect when you enter.

Contents will last longer and the sense of achievement will be higher.

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and when we perfected the strategy, the lag hits,what would you say?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by popdai

I don't think so ^^

And if what you say will take effect, i'll be the first to say
"you're the best" to that LS ^^

The point is: spamming a raid/fight, and finish it after 200 tries (in 4 days),
does not mean you're good, but only you don't have a social life.
Having a raid 2 days per week, and be the first to finish it, means you
have studied the fight and you have good players.

200 tries with 2 tries per week = 100 weeks = 700 days
good players? good LS? i don't think so ^^

My 2 cents :P

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how can we studied the fight when we only can fight it once in 2 days?

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Originally Posted by Aion

how can we studied the fight when we only can fight it once in 2 days?

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Being perfect, have good players and a good leader ^^
and why not.... past experiences in mmorpgs ^^

No, let's not lock out content for obnoxious amounts of time. You know what that does? It doesn't make players better, it doesn't make the elite better, it doesn't help anyone. What it does do is create an environment where players harbor extreme animosity towards others for making even the slightest mistake, where people will refuse to play with anyone outside of their linkshell, where people will not even take any risks in trying out new strategies because it could mean a wipe which locks them out for too long.

Time sinks =/= difficulty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by popdai

Being perfect, have good players and a good leader ^^
and why not.... past experiences in mmorpgs ^^

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no thanks...btw, have you defeated ifrit? with your ideal vision you should be able to do it right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arcell

No, let's not lock out content for obnoxious amounts of time. You know what that does? It doesn't make players better, it doesn't make the elite better, it doesn't help anyone. What it does do is create an environment where players harbor extreme animosity towards others for making even the slightest mistake, where people will refuse to play with anyone outside of their linkshell, where people will not even take any risks in trying out new strategies because it could mean a wipe which locks them out for too long.

Time sinks =/= difficulty.

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... this means being a good LS!

That's why WoE was so awesome in Ragnarok Online.

so now the requirement to enjoy this game content is a good LS?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aion

no thanks...btw, have you defeated ifrit? with your ideal vision you should be able to do it right?

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I only tried it once and take him down to 40% with a broken horn. I can't play 24/7 ^^

BTW this is my point of view, apperently i'm the only one.... :D

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Originally Posted by popdai

... this means being a good LS!

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So you're saying a good LS shuns all outside players, berates their members for making any mistakes and refuses to deviate from the one proven strategy? That's not being a good LS, that's being an LS full of elitists assholes. This isn't a hardcore game, guess you didn't get the memo.

All these long lockouts do is create a hostile, poisonous environment for players. Anyone who's not 100% perfect better gtfo and stop wasting peoples time. I mean if you're not god's gift to MMOs forget about anyone even thinking of taking you. That's not the kind of community I want for this game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by popdai

I only tried it once and take him down to 40% with a broken horn. I can't play 24/7 ^^

BTW this is my point of view, apperently i'm the only one.... :D

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and if you apply this,when will you defeated the ifrit?next year?

Theres not really any way to say "oh this is the best LS"

If they add the content you want that will only satisfy YOU with who is the best LS, it is completely subjective

Also someone mentioned fighting games being more challenging than rpg, again it is completely subjective, imo a fighting style game would use more skill in the hand/eye coordination area, and a good rpg should use more skill in the planning/strategy areas

So it all comes down to YOUR own ideas on what is challenging, everything is realitive

I agree with OP, i belive we should have both in this game, we already have these so called spammable raids, so why not for players of all tastes create one like poppai mentioned, one that u can do once of twice a week, or a little less extreme maybe once a day? anyway i think it would be interesting to see that and find out if in fact the same LS with more time on their hands would still be the 1st to beat it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arcell

All these long lockouts do is create a hostile, poisonous environment for players. Anyone who's not 100% perfect better gtfo and stop wasting peoples time. I mean if you're not god's gift to MMOs forget about anyone even thinking of taking you. That's not the kind of community I want for this game.

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This. This is the same type of mentality as "world first, realm first" and whatever else.

Just add uber weapons/armor like relics that can't be broken by failing materia melding that takes a long time to get/looks cool/whatever and we're off to the races. You can make the drops come out of the hardest things in the game, and not just one type of event.

The only issue with FFXI's acquisition is that many relic holders took advantage of other people to get them, (Funneling all the currency to one person instead of splitting it even after making a profit if sponsored, all drops going to one person first, etc.) so to change that the people that help should get some kind of decent reward for the effort. (And no, a dice roll on AF2 for 3 1/2 hours of work is not a decent reward.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kobushi

I agree with OP, i belive we should have both in this game, we already have these so called spammable raids, so why not for players of all tastes create one like poppai mentioned, one that u can do once of twice a week, or a little less extreme maybe once a day? anyway i think it would be interesting to see that and find out if in fact the same LS with more time on their hands would still be the 1st to beat it

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Id rather have mass PvP to decide which is the best LS (ala WoE) rather than limiting player to enjoy the game content

I question your definitions of what constitutes being a "good LS," as well as good game play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kobushi

I agree with OP, i belive we should have both in this game, we already have these so called spammable raids, so why not for players of all tastes create one like poppai mentioned, one that u can do once of twice a week, or a little less extreme maybe once a day? anyway i think it would be interesting to see that and find out if in fact the same LS with more time on their hands would still be the 1st to beat it

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THIS IS THE POINT! :P

I told you my english is not good <.< you explained my point of view

Being the 'best' in a MMORPG generally means that you have no life. Adding artificial scarcity to that isn't going to change the fact. If I wanted to deal with that kind of nonsense I would go play FFXI.