Why we pay for aetherythes

So in the most recent duty commenced it was said that we pay for aetherythe transportation to repay the debt the city states made by reconstructing the aetherytes.

Now you might say that the WOL is the only one using these things but it's clearly said in various dialogue that your adventurer companions need to join you, and I doubt they will walk from Limsa to the dravanian forelands. So more people are using this service

Economists might disagree with the following but stay with me for a bit.

The wealthy men of Uldah ( I presume these to be the Monetarists) funded the city states for rebuilding the Aetherythes thus creating a gigantic loan which the adventurers pay off by paying for the teleportation either before leaving or after arriving.

Let's say that in-game time story wise only a year or two has passed(and not go by the day night circle of eorzan time) since we started our adventure in Eorzea.
The amount of teleportations done is going to be a very big number in this time span.
Even if we only had to pay 100gil per teleportation, the amount of gil payed should have been enough to pay back these loans + the interest.

If that is not the case then the amount of gil funded by "the wealthy men of ul'dah" is so big that we could never repay this amount. If that is the case then I hypothesize that the total wealth among adventurers is not even close to the amount funded.
In that case there would be such an amount of gil in circulation that the value of the gil would be next to nothing.

Please i would like to hear your thoughts on this

There already an explanation for this, on the orther hand I would wanna know why we have to pay on gil on areas that are abandoned or in control of beast tribes ( dragons, zenith, azys la, moogles ), not the vanu vanu beacase they may need gil to do bussines with Ishgardians in camp cloudtop

Borrowing money from the Monetarists is like borrowing money from a loan shark. You never pay it back.

It costs money to maintain the aetherytes. Even if it wasn't built as a post-Calamity transit system, you have to pay the local owners to keep the aetheryte in working condition.

Sounds simple enough, right?

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Originally Posted by fm_fenrir

Borrowing money from the Monetarists is like borrowing money from a loan shark. You never pay it back.

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"High interest rate" seems like it would be a common middle name for business men and women in Ul'dah.

As for how much was actually loaned and the wealth of those who put out the loan? I think using the amount of teleporting done by the actual players won't be an accurate way of gauging that amount, and it's supposed to be based on the "lore correct" amount of use they see. It's still something used frequently by adventurers, and others who need it, but I'd imagine that within canon that number isn't nearly as high as the amount of time it's been used by players based on a real life count.

So within the context of how often it's used in canon lore, it's a large amount that has been paid off, but that number isn't higher than the actual cumulative wealth of players. May not even be close, considering I know of several within just my FC who are easily in the 10s of millions of gil, and I've seen a YT interview with at least one player who has over 700 million gil. I'd be surprised if the original loan was in the billions of gil like it would need to be to exceed player wealth.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

It costs money to maintain the aetherytes. Even if it wasn't built as a post-Calamity transit system, you have to pay the local owners to keep the aetheryte in working condition.

Sounds simple enough, right?

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Well, we've been told the payment isn't current maintenance but rather paying off the cost of the original work order (much like my wife and I in real life are currently paying off the financed cost of replacing the windows in our home), at least in areas settled in and frequented by the five races.

Maintenance costs for those in other areas not repaired by that particular work order almost makes sense...except most of those groups don't need seem to need gil. Dragons and Moogles certainly wouldn't, nor would I think the Vanu, and all of those appear to be older or naturally occurring aetherytes. Idyllshire is really the only one where the associated gil cost for maintenance still makes sense, in my opinion.

I mean, I get that the cost associated is for gameplay reasons ultimately...just that there are several places where it doesn't fit in the lore versus the other areas where it does fit the lore.

Well, if you take into account exactly how many aetherytes there are around Eorzea, and then juxtapose that with a typical large scale public works project like a highway or bridge in real life, and the long-term loan idea that never seems to actually be paid off starts to ring true.

For instance, here in Australia at least capital projects like bridges run into the billions of dollars and can take four or five decades for the government to fully pay off the loans that fund their construction - the world famous Sydney Harbour Bridge is an example of this; it's construction was completed in the 1930s and yet the original British loan than funded it wasn't fully paid off by Australia until the 1980s.

So the reconstruction of the aetheryte system definitely seems like such a costly undertaking to require tolls for it's use for a very long time, even more so given the avarice of the Monetarists - they're not going to exactly back down from a lucrative income stream such as aetheryte tolls.

MMOs need a gil sink, repairs, aetherytes, shops.

This is a gil sink. They just decided to throw a generic excuse as to why we pay this time around.

Ah, but i suppose you are asking from a lore and story point of view instead of a gameplay one.


In which case i truly believe its just some minor dialogue as to why and no real information or conclusion was or will be given, you pay because city wants your gil, why? (insert excuse) end of branch.

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Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

MMOs need a gil sink, repairs, aetherytes, shops.

This is a gil sink. They just decided to throw a generic excuse as to why we pay this time around.

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Uhhh.....Duh? No one is questioning that. People are wondering how the original excuse for paying for teleports apply to areas where no one has been to for ages.

the places we teleport to even through to Anex for example is paid up front from where you are. they omitted from gameplay you always running up to the person to give them the gil.

the teleport that we have now are mostly relocated crystals that were rebuilt. when the debt actually goes away is when "Anima" returns as that is what was used during 1.0.

after the Calamity a lot of the crystals in the city states and around various parts were destroyed. they paid the debt to have them rebuilt and relocated. other crystals pop up naturally where there is plenty of Aether and beast tribes and cities naturally just build around them. like forgotten springs and drybone. while some crystal were completely destroyed or buried beneath the ground with the shifting land of where paths opened up. camps that are no more like camp bearded rock.

for my speculations. i think we will see the return of "Anima" in the 4.0 series.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Maintenance costs for those in... areas not repaired by that particular work order almost makes sense...except most of those groups don't need seem to need gil. Dragons and Moogles certainly wouldn't, nor would I think the Vanu, and all of those appear to be older or naturally occurring aetherytes. Idyllshire is really the only one where the associated gil cost for maintenance still makes sense, in my opinion.

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And yet they still take payment in the form of gil for repairs and merchandise, as well as hand it out as a reward for completing (re)quests. Apparently they must have some need of it, or they would not do so. (Do you really wanna keep kupo nuts on hand to use the Churning Mists aetherytes?)

The only one that makes no logical sense is the one on Azys Lla, since while the nodes do accept and give out gil as currency said currency did not exist back then (they had their coins that my retainer likes to bring back instead of rare dyes). Perhaps they're just skipping the middleman and giving us the gil equivalent, but it still doesn't make sense for much of anything on Azys Lla to carry or accept gil as payment...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

but it still doesn\\'t make sense for much of anything on Azys Lla to carry or accept gil as payment...

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I say Azys Lla Nods accept gil as payment due to their simmilarity to Allagan Currency and that, while there are aware 5000 years have passed, the Nodes are not aware Allag has fallen and may be accepting gil as a new "Allag Curency" via self learning programs.

As for Dravania, Tailfeather is mannaged by The Chocobo Hunters, Anix Trine is likly a natural Aetherite (as is likly the Vanu Vanu's), and any Aetherites in Sharlyon are undoubtedly Goblin maintained. The Moogles are likly maintainong the two Aetherites in the mists but it eas likly The Earthlord Civilizay that built them.

I'm guessing that that Churning Mists and Dravanian Forelands have existed prior to the Dragonsong war back when Dragon-elezen relationship was peaceful? It make sense that we're charged in Chruning Mists since it's the moogles that're maintaining the area and probably need the gil to make repairs, etc.

Anyx Trine remains a mystery since it's controlled by Hraesvalgr's brood, unless dragon's secretly like trading then I don't know what's the lore reason for them to charge us gil.

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Originally Posted by myahele

I'm guessing that that Churning Mists and Dravanian Forelands have existed prior to the Dragonsong war back when Dragon-elezen relationship was peaceful? It make sense that we're charged in Chruning Mists since it's the moogles that're maintaining the area and probably need the gil to make repairs, etc.

Anyx Trine remains a mystery since it's controlled by Hraesvalgr's brood, unless dragon's secretly like trading then I don't know what's the lore reason for them to charge us gil.

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Likely the same thing, many of the buildings in the Dravanian Forelands predate the Dragonsong War. to the South of Anix Trine there is a ruined village that was once the home of Man and Dragons.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

And yet they still take payment in the form of gil for repairs and merchandise, as well as hand it out as a reward for completing (re)quests. Apparently they must have some need of it, or they would not do so. (Do you really wanna keep kupo nuts on hand to use the Churning Mists aetherytes?)

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That gets me thinking...repairs (for the aetherytes specifically - I know you're meaning the repairs they do for us that costs gil) from who, I wonder. I got the distinct impression that the particular group in the Churning Mists hadn't been interacting with the anyone but dragons for a long, long time...certainly not to the point of calling a certified Aetheryte repair technician when they need it to be serviced. Which, as a side thought, makes me wonder if there's an example or mention in-game of the Aetherytes having maintenance performed on them or the gil cost of teleportation going to anything in particular. As far as I can remember we all just assumed it was for maintenance and/or paying for the guards who watch over them, and this lore lowdown is the first official word on what the payment goes toward that I've personally heard or seen. If there's evidence to the contrary I'd absolutely love to see it.

I don't think the Moogles actually have a need for it, honestly, at least originally, and within the lore they might very well prefer kupo nuts to gil (and would if the game play decision wasn't made to use gil as a blanket currency, regardless of lore considerations, which is a possibility for minor contradictions like this). Perhaps they simply accept it as a matter of politeness and because it's what us adventurers have, and the only reason they need it now is because of their interactions with us and and the growing interactions with those from Ishgard that you can see in the side quests that pop-up later that lead to talk of the Moogles learning how to repair the stonework in the area.

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Originally Posted by myahele

I'm guessing that that Churning Mists and Dravanian Forelands have existed prior to the Dragonsong war back when Dragon-elezen relationship was peaceful? It make sense that we're charged in Chruning Mists since it's the moogles that're maintaining the area and probably need the gil to make repairs, etc.

Anyx Trine remains a mystery since it's controlled by Hraesvalgr's brood, unless dragon's secretly like trading then I don't know what's the lore reason for them to charge us gil.

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Maybe we were insistent on paying, since that's what we're used to, as a matter of politeness for using the aetherytes in the area, and out of politeness they accept what we're used to using?

So how do you explain Azys Lla then?

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

So how do you explain Azys Lla then?

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See my theory about the Nodes.

thou never really thought about it (aside from a dev/gameplay view of "money" sink) it could just be the "spell" we were taught back at the begining when atuning to our 1st atherite has a auto-removal sub-spell tucked in that automaticly decides the cost & teleports it outa our pockets mid-travel to some pre-set chest (which I would bet is owned by some damn Lala in Ul'dah) & since we have probably no clue how to build/understand how a spell fully works aside from the whole think it & spend the MP to use, I bet we'd be none the wiser... thou if so then with the big "debt" for said Atherite re-buildin, maintence, outpost upkeep &/or guard pay then it might have been made then by some long dead Thaugermage (again F'n geady cut throat Ul'dahian NPC's)

If not that then Aynx is easy explained with an old... really old idea on Dragon's, they sleep on beds of gold coins/treasure (if so can we get a fight like that so we can rob them >.<)

Gil costs for aetherytes also would go to maintenance of the crystal. For sites like Azys Lla and Moghome I presume this fee also helps support the community.

Support what community? We have moogles that spend their time protecting whatever is left of their home from Nidhogg's brood and don't have time to meddle with gil while Ayzs Lla has been desolate for hundreds of years.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Support what community? We have moogles that spend their time protecting whatever is left of their home from Nidhogg's brood and don't have time to meddle with gil while Ayzs Lla has been desolate for hundreds of years.

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My thoughts, exactly. Up until recently (game time-line wise), Moogles in Churning Mists never dealt with the outside world and just focused on repairing/ maintaining Hraesvalgr's domain as part of their covenant with him. Things have changed once Ishgardians have set foot there and are now helping Moogles rebuild.

Anyx Trine ... there's really no reason other than maybe they like how gil look (shiny)?

One reason is to cover restoration/maintenance costs but the other would be for $$$ profit. These monetarists don't go around rebuilding things out of the kindness of their hearts. If you're going to invest in going to the middle of nowhere to establish transportation you're going to want to make bank long term, not just break even. Especially if it's a useful service for adventurers and you have zero competition. I mean, there's a reason they're "wealthy" :p

The non-lore reason is to remove gil from circulation to prevent inflation.

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Originally Posted by myahele

My thoughts, exactly. Up until recently (game time-line wise), Moogles in Churning Mists never dealt with the outside world and just focused on repairing/ maintaining Hraesvalgr's domain as part of their covenant with him. Things have changed once Ishgardians have set foot there and are now helping Moogles rebuild.

Anyx Trine ... there's really no reason other than maybe they like how gil look (shiny)?

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Except the group that set foot there was not entirely Ishgardian after all, only Ysayle and Estinein were. There was a Sharalyan youth (Alphinaud), a person of unknown origin/homeland (the Warrior of Light/the player), and three Gridanians (Kan-E-Senna and her Serpentguard), not including a Twelveswood moogle (Kuplo-Kop). So therefore given the fact that it was technically Gridania who made direct contact with the moogles of Moghome and not Ishgard, it could be kind of handwaved away that before she returned to Gridania Kan-E established some kind of permanent diplomatic tie between the two nations, which would explain the fees paid to the moogles for using the local aetheryte. But maybe I'm just grabbing at straws here. :p

Anyx Trine's one could also be explained away by hunters from Tailfeather collecting the tolls... but given the dragons who inhabit the place seem to be understandably wary of spoken intruding into their sanctuary, that's a real stretch. :p

Finally payment for the Azys Lla aetheryte fees could have a mundane explanation which has ironically nothing to do with Allag - as soon as you first arrive in Azys Lla, Cid explains that he has immediately set up an Ironworks airship route back to Ishgard (symbolized by an Ironworks standard at the end of the dock in Helix) in case you "need to return quickly for supplies" - taking that further whose to say he hasn't stationed an Ironworks employee nearby the aetheryte to collect a toll? But again, that's really stretching logic I think. ;)

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

SNIP

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Lol yeah I completely forgot about Gridania involvement

Could it just be programmed into the crystal from its original installation? Like a toll both or the lift gate at a parking garage. I put in my money it lets me pass even if un-manned. Maybe no one collects the Gil, Maybe it's all just been piling up in some store room under the crystal with the skeletons of those that once processed Eorzea passport and porting permits...

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Originally Posted by Sovi

Could it just be programmed into the crystal from its original installation? Like a toll both or the lift gate at a parking garage. I put in my money it lets me pass even if un-manned. Maybe no one collects the Gil, Maybe it's all just been piling up in some store room under the crystal with the skeletons of those that once processed Eorzea passport and porting permits...

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How would that work? How does an aetheryte go through our pockets to take gil? As far as I know, someone had posted in the Lore forum not too long ago that NPCs take our gil before we're allowed to teleport (in the general areas before 3.0), but we don't see it for the sake of keeping the game moving. We also know in game that the aetherytes were rebuilt thanks to the wealthy merchants from Ul'dah and we're all paying them back every time we use the things. This wouldn't apply in areas where there hasn't been civilization for eons or in areas where the current residents don't have a use for gil (such as dragons).

I think they are taking our Gil when we arrive. The Gil doesn't deduct till after Teleport is cast. And Return doesn't cost us at all.

Who are "they"? In regards to the ancient and desolate areas we teleport to in 3.0.

Even it's about maintenance, I don't even see any NPC that using Aetheryte for teleport. So we pay for who? Hydaelyn?

I already said why we don't see NPCs at aetherytes in the 2.0 areas

Azys Lla I imagined would support the Ironworks as others have mentioned, and clearly moogles have some concept of gil since they have merchants and menders. Unless we assume that those, too, are recent innovations some sort of economy clearly exists around the Moghome aetheryte. Anyx Trine I'm not sure about other than saying that most dragon lore presents them as lovers of coin.