The rigidity of this game - Why do people defend this?

First let me start off by clarifying that I do not intend to put down this game or its developers with this thread, for if anything this has more to do with the community. There's just no doubting that the design choice of this game's gameplay is extremely rigid, which in many ways cause numerous amounts of issues.

Let's talk about the combat system. And no, this has nothing to do with the holy trinity. This is the actual gameplay in its purest form. There's no physics, no open world, no vehicles, no collision, etc. The very basics of this game literally comes down to basic horizontal movement, math, positioning, and reaction/timing ( and before anybody says it; coordination is not a combat system element, its a multiplayer element and does not fall under this paragraph's topic ). So what you have is your standard tab-targeting combat. Which is fine in my opinion, I loved the hell out of FF12's combat.

But what does this mean from a community standpoint? Well the more rigid the gameplay, the more solidified people's opinions on what you should be doing in the video game. Solidified opinions become standardized expectations. Press 1 out of 30 buttons in the incorrect order and/or at the incorrect time of the fight and you are instantly labeled a bad player. Arguments arise over how you shouldn't be telling other people how to play the game, people ragequit the instance, etc etc, just the typical nonsense you see in duty finder. My point is, you have to play the game in a very specific way, usually in a way established by the community.

I'm very sorry, I've devoted a great amount of effort to refrain from using the following game as an example, but I cannot think of a better way to get my point across. In GTA online, there is a heist called The Prison Break. The objective is to get the client out of prison and the country itself. It requires one team of 4 players. 2 people pose as inmates and a prison guard and fight their way through the prison once inside. 1 guy flies an escape plane, and 1 guy steals a prison bus en route, blows it up, then steals a military helicopter to protect the plane. Usually the 2 players in the prison fight their way through and then steal an armored truck to escape. However, in one session I was in, the 2 people at the prison were not skilled enough to fight through it, but the airplane pilot was good enough not to be blown up by the fighter jet that was chasing it. So instead, I took the helicopter to the prison to support the ground team, which is extremely risky. The prison has turrets that fires a homing missile every 5 seconds. Shooting at police on the ground while constantly dodging missiles is a very involved job.

Now this isn't the same as an adopted strat like solo tanking t9, or a mechanic-bypassing strat like suiciding the royal pentacle in A4S, because it does not save time or effort, and in fact requires more skill and effort of the vehicle pilots then usual. It was literally just another way of completing it. I can make up for the lack of skill of one part of the team by applying my own skill. Which is something you usually can't or won't do in FFXIV. Like, it doesn't matter how good of a tank I am, if 2 dps aren't dodging plumes or whatever and end up dying because of it there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. Being unable to pick up the pieces as they fall, and you just have a bunch of people nerdraging at each other. People start forming cliques, and then get labeled as elitists.

Don't get me wrong here; I'm not asking that they should overhaul the game because it's not like GTA or whatever. What I'm saying is that people should be a little less receptive of this game's continuous design. And by a little I mean a lot. I won't go into detail here, but I will say I get quite annoyed when I see people shooting other people down on the forums when they suggest that the devs should start adding things like emergent gameplay and horizontal progression - as if the design of this game is sacred or something. Keep telling the devs that it is okay to keep the game so rigid and it will stay like that for a long time, then you have no one else to blame when the content is the same, que times are long, and/or you're just bored when playing this game.

All the things you have mentioned are supposedly too "complex" for casual players. It is the reason the elemental wheel was gutted in 2.0, along with any other system which provided depth to gameplay.

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Originally Posted by FaizeD

All the things you have mentioned are supposedly too "complex" for casual players. It is the reason the elemental wheel was gutted in 2.0, along with any other system which provided depth to gameplay.

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They simplified the game for 2.0. It was a good design choice, but that doesn't mean they can't add gameplay mechanics that isn't specifically tailored to hardcore players. If we just keep acting like its okay then the devs will take it as 'positive feedback'. At the end of the day though, if people really don't want change then it won't happen. I would just like to know why they don't want change.

Don't we have enough "The Community is the real problem here" threads already??

It's not that bad to be frank, in the deep deep barrel of all the MMORPG games out there and from playing around in them they are all very basic and at least use some form that FFXIV uses.

As for combat, target mob, use skills on mob until dead, rinse and repeat. The fact that we can at least dodge AoE's and plan around things brings some variety to the table. However you aren't comparing the game very fairly, seeing as GTA isn't even in the class of an MMORPG, sure it has online multiplayer but you don't go around and level up, get new skills, get better stats and new gear. No it's an open world action adventure sandbox best put, where you and your friends or random others mess around, sure you might plan things out but it really isn't the same. I hardly consider GTA a "hardcore" game.

You're better off comparing to things like TERA and Blade and Soul, those are what the general populace consider "action" packed MMORPG's. They have a more "In depth" combat system that makes things more lively than mashing skills until monster is dead, even though that's what it really boils down to, kill monster, avoid monsters attacks.

Another thing is that MMORPG's are generally meant to have you band together with a party of people or friends to complete an objective of sorts, whether it's raiding or doing dungeons or even exploring. It's a "team" game, just like in sports certain people have certain roles to do fulfill that areas needs so to speak. In short it's hard for one person to do everything, what's the point of playing something like an MMORPG if you just want to be a loner and do everything yourself, granted you could do it but you wouldn't get very far and you certainly wouldn't be touching up on any end game content.

I don't think that FFXIV will ever amount to more than learn mechanics A, B and C and how much damage/healing/tanking is needed at points X, Y and Z. On another point though at least when people start getting better gear it can start opening up more options, usually not the best as we've seen with people ignoring mechanics, but there is a difference in the line of player gear vs skill, which in turn can enable groups to do and try different things at times.

Really when I think about it it's a lot more involved when I look back at some things in FFXI, sometimes you'd come to HNM's/endgame content and your one job was to stand there and stun the boss every minute or so, thrilling.

As for the community well ... considering how bad and nasty as well as varied the internet has become there will always be conflicts.

Anyways I feel like you're asking for a lot or just saying that the community is just full of bad ideas, which I'll admit, reading some of the things that people on here ask for makes me cringe or go "why would you ask for that?" but I don't think that's what it really comes down to.

I find it's the obsession with 'hard' that creates undue rigidity in games as a whole. In games like FF14 it really condenses down to who can build better macro's. While I don't mind it being an aspect of games, it shouldn't be the absolute in content. It's the flaw of so many one trick pony games. My way or the highway crap. It's wasted potential.

For the record, there is a collision mechanic in one of the lower dungeons. The corrupted crystals that spawn on a boss? The dps that kills the stationary adds (.aka crystals) will get a pipe AoE from the boss. Melee trying to clear these crystals will find the floor cluttered with spikes and stuff that make evading the pipe AoE very difficult. As such, have ranged hit the crystals or be ready to rez the melee when they unavoidably get nailed by one of the hits. Even in cases like that it comes back to, do this, don't do that. Once you know, you know.

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Originally Posted by Kassiekane

But what does this mean from a community standpoint? Well the more rigid the gameplay, the more solidified people's opinions on what you should be doing in the video game. Solidified opinions become standardized expectations. Press 1 out of 30 buttons in the incorrect order and/or at the incorrect time of the fight and you are instantly labeled a bad player. Arguments arise over how you shouldn't be telling other people how to play the game, people ragequit the instance, etc etc, just the typical nonsense you see in duty finder. My point is, you have to play the game in a very specific way, usually in a way established by the community.

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In what situations outside of top-level content do you need to do your rotation perfectly? At present, the majority of content in this game is so easy/forgiving that there's zero pressure on DPS to meet an enrage timer unless you're doing Savage. I have almost never seen a DPS player called out for not doing enough DPS in a Duty Finder dungeon/raid-- it is WAY WAY more common for people to complain about tanks and healers. If people call out DPS it's usually because they fail at mechanics and die, not because they messed up their rotation. Also calling out DPS players on DPS is a dead giveaway you're running a parser which is conveniently a bannable offense.

As for the rest of your post, your argument is nothing new. It is common knowledge that your gear or your personal skill has the least impact on your ability to do endgame content; the greatest impact comes from finding 7 other people who can do "team jump rope" perfectly with you. You have to count on everyone in your group memorizing the fight and knowing exactly what to do next. This is most obvious on fights like RavEX and A2S which are essentially very long scripted fights where everyone has to be standing in the exact right place doing the exact right thing at the exact right moment and if a single person screws up it's probably a wipe.

People have been complaining about the developers' "team jump rope" design for content for ages now and there's not really any sign of them backing off on it any time soon. I'm not defending it and I certainly would like them to ease off of it, but for the time being they seem to be very comfortable with it.

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Originally Posted by adn

In what situations outside of top-level content do you need to do your rotation perfectly?

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You don't, but you can't tell a speedfreak tank that needs to complete a dungeon in under 15 minutes that.

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Originally Posted by adn

People have been complaining about the developers' "team jump rope" design for content for ages now and there's not really any sign of them backing off on it any time soon. I'm not defending it and I certainly would like them to ease off of it, but for the time being they seem to be very comfortable with it.

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That's the issue there. The team jumprope arguement has been around for quite some time, I know. The issue with people that shut down suggestions for things that are a bit less linear than what we have now is a bit more recent.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

In games like FF14 it really condenses down to who can build better macro's.

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LOL what???

What are you even talking about?
Thanks for the good laugh I needed that.

Well I'm glad someone notices the issue in this gameplay style. Not really an issue but bland choice of conducting it. You play the game for a very long time, working hard to get to a certain level or even gaining new classes to improve your all around character, but you're poorly rewarded. Yes you might get some good gear or a reasonabe amount of gil, but your experience won't give you much free reign on your future encounters while doing the exact same thing. To put simply, your experience is worthless to yourself. Without others your basically a mercenary waiting to be picked out, or looking for recruits yourself. Of course thats why you have friends or people recommend getting them to play [News Flash] Anything is better with friends.

I can run Aurum Vale 100 times while talking to my friend about Legend of Zelda theories while having a blast doing it. At this point people will tell you to play a different game, hmm...well I payed for this game and I'm still paying for it with a monthly subscription that last (blah) amount of days, so while I'm here I'm going to do my part as part of this community to say what NEEDS to be said so the developers and directors may take a look at this customers reviews and suggestions, so who are you to tell me to do otherwise? The gameplay isn't to blame for most of this, I could think of a few ways given time to make it work better for all players so it wouldn't be tedious. Here's one: give all enemies more than one hit point, weaknesses and exploits can give the player an advantage if they have experience. Idk :/

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Originally Posted by adn

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You don't need to use the best rotation, but there's never a reason not to except ignorance or laziness.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

You don't need to use the best rotation, but there's never a reason not to except ignorance or laziness.

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You don't need to use the best rotation unless you're doing meaningful content, ala the current raid. Alex savage, past coils when they were current.

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Originally Posted by Slappah

You don't need to use the best rotation unless you're doing meaningful content, ala the current raid. Alex savage, past coils when they were current.

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There's a difference between not being the best and not even trying, which I'm sure was his point. Not doing the highest or hardest content is no excuse to drag your feet and be a sandbag.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

There's a difference between not being the best and not even trying, which I'm sure was his point. Not doing the highest or hardest content is no excuse to drag your feet and be a sandbag.

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I get that, I guess I worded it wrong.

I moreso meant that using an unoptimal or flat out wrong rotation won't stop you from clearing majority of this games content, but when you get to stuff like Alex savage "you don't need to use the best rotation" is a false statement.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to imply that anyone should play worse in a dungeon than they should in raid.

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Originally Posted by Slappah

I get that, I guess I worded it wrong.

I moreso meant that using an unoptimal or flat out wrong rotation won't stop you from clearing majority of this games content, but when you get to stuff like Alex savage "you don't need to use the best rotation" is a false statement.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to imply that anyone should play worse in a dungeon than they should in raid.

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Ah, I got you and I agree.

If you guys don't like the rigidness of this game. Why even play it? I like the gameplay of this game and really hope it stays this way. If you guys don't like it then leave. I'm sure no one will miss you especially if you complain as much in game as you do in the forums.

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Originally Posted by Kogasan

If you guys don't like the rigidness of this game. Why even play it? I like the gameplay of this game and really hope it stays this way. If you guys don't like it then leave. I'm sure no one will miss you especially if you complain as much in game as you do in the forums.

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This is what we're talking about. So either you wasn't paying attention or just trolling. I'm leaning toward the second one, so thnx for pitching in the annoying majority of the community.

It's about open mindedness of current affects of the gameplay and how we all look at it, not complaints. At least imo