Enhanced Materia with spell effects, Phoenix Down and Potions while Fighting

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Q17: Do you plan on making adjustments in the future to items such as Phoenix Down, elemental materia, and potions, which are not used very frequently by players?

A17: Since there is a high possibility that balance is destroyed when using Phoenix Downs in high-end battle content, we’ll be keeping them as they are currently.

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I am very touched that they choose one of my question!

I am.. very disappointed with the answer.

Since they are constantly 'balancing' everything, they should be able to do this.

Anyway, thanks for answering, I cracked a smile ;)

Hey, potions are used very frequently in raiding. STR/DEX/INT/MND pots anyway. The healing ones maybe not, although I have saved myself by popping an X potion during a fate

The game breaking balance with Phoenix Downs is compared to the MP cost to revive a target that has fallen. The negatives of falling in combat would be severely reduced to a point where PD's are must haves and not just an option which would cause issues for such an item to hold a huge necessity to raids and such.

Aside from main stat potions, I look at potions in this game as just a reference to FF tradition. Granted certain types like Ethers have their niche/emergency uses, but nothing beyond that really.

On a side note, I wish they'd buff Poison Pots to work on HW bosses. They used to be pretty useful during progression at times.

Might as well remove them.

SC>Flare>Xether>Flare>Convert>Flare>Transpose>Bliz III>etc. = PVP Node clearer.

They could just make Phoenix Downs revive you with double the weakness or a normal raise and it stacks consecutively with the other weakness'. It would make people think twice about using it and will only be as a super last resort item as no one wants a double weakness and in those cases it may be better to wipe.

Any crafter worth his salt uses the crap out of element materia, transmutation food lol.

Can we please just change the Potions, Ethers, and Elixirs to be potency based, rather than static numbers? Static numbers are utterly worthless, more so now we have even more HP/MP...

Bad enough the limits we have on these things... Why does an Antidote share a recast with a Potion? That effectively kills the entire concept, and with Antidotes and the like being something you can buy with Grand Company Seals... I don't see the issue with having them be something more useful... Sure, have like medicines share a cooldown, so I can't pop an Antidote and Eye Drops, or a Potion and Ether, but let me pop an Antidote and Potion... I can effectively see four categories for shared recasts; Esuna type (Antidotes/Eye Drops/etc.) medicines, recovery (HP/MP/TP, why are TP wings locked to PvP, BTW?) type, stats boost type, poison type.

Also... Can we make using them slightly more convenient? Something similar to how Fisher can open up a Bait Box, despite all Bait being in the inventory... A single action that brings up all my medicines (and nothing else) and lets me pick which to use from there, that would be great, provided they actually had a purpose...

As for Phoenix Downs... Either remove them or make them worth a damn... You know what I'm actually more upset about? You can't stack them... Can't use them in combat? Fine. Whatever, the problem with that though, is that I can only carry one on me... There is utterly no benefit to them because of that... I could see myself using them out in the open, perhaps in dungeons or Sky Exploration if things go wrong, but I can't, because I can only carry one on me...

Oh, and give Alchemy some of the actually valuable consumables, please? Cordials, I'm looking at you...

They are going to balance items, not Phoenix Down though.

They could just use Phoenix Down as a "Reraise" on the open world - if you die while carrying one, you would get instantly revived. The 'Unique' trait of the item would make it impossible to exploit this, and while not being an extremely needed effect, a lot of people would use it, especially when leveling low-level characters and alts.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

They are going to balance items, not Phoenix Down though.

They could just use Phoenix Down as a "Reraise" on the open world - if you die while carrying one, you would get instantly revived. The 'Unique' trait of the item would make it impossible to exploit this, and while not being an extremely needed effect, a lot of people would use it, especially when leveling low-level characters and alts.

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Until I involuntarily tested this idea against an Adamantoise I had no business attacking, I thought that this was the case. It would certainly make it easier to level when you're alone (especially when using a DPS class with no Chocobo Companion), and would make hunts a bit more interesting. And of course, make it so that they cannot be used in dungeons.


The only downside I could see to this would be that it would only make the "overworld isn't dangerous enough" problem even worse. With the ability to self-resurrect, even the few mobs/enemies that could really pose a problem to a single player would mean significantly less.

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Originally Posted by Amiaze

The only downside I could see to this would be that it would only make the "overworld isn't dangerous enough" problem even worse. With the ability to self-resurrect, even the few mobs/enemies that could really pose a problem to a single player would mean significantly less.

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Eh, I can't see it making the open world less dangerous... If you died to open world content, chances are you're not going to get back up and suddenly beat it with Weakness... You'll die, and it'll reset, and if you can still only carry one at a time, it would be a one time thing... Plus, you died, I mean I wouldn't put it past this community, but "I died in the open world! It isn't dangerous enough!" would be a pretty nonsense thing to say... If anything something like this could be an excuse to make things harder... I like it...

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

Aside from main stat potions, I look at potions in this game as just a reference to FF tradition.

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I see Phoenix Downs similarly, A holdover form the single player games that can only fit in the extremes of "useless" and "You take this or we will kick you form our Static". Unsurprisingly, the devs went with the former.

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Originally Posted by Airget

The game breaking balance with Phoenix Downs is compared to the MP cost to revive a target that has fallen. The negatives of falling in combat would be severely reduced to a point where PD's are must haves and not just an option which would cause issues for such an item to hold a huge necessity to raids and such.

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True.

-> They can limit their usage like one per fight, or once per instance. It still would give PD something more tangible and a great feeling.

Just like parsers, if it would become a requirement for the party, then it's a no-no of course.

But right now everyone had at least 2 IIRC, so once per instance, everyone could save someone, the last seconds of a fight where everyone dies, and you revive someone so we would kill the boss, for me it's Epic fights ^^

Just something random, but then again, we know how people think >.<

Now it's useless, unless you want to get your achievement for reviving people outside your party.

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Alright then! Make my freaking RAISE on PLD worth a damn! So I could raise someone while fighting!

"Tank" you.

Or give us 'advanced jobs' so I can become a Crusader and then.. Raise people while fighting?

^ Should I create a new thread with that title? I mean the Raise part ;)

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

SC>Flare>Xether>Flare>Convert>Flare>Transpose>Bliz III>etc. = PVP Node clearer.

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At 50 cap? Because at 60 Flare has a minimum MP of around 850.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

At 50 cap? Because at 60 Flare has a minimum MP of around 850.

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Old 72 man Secure tactic, so yes 50. I only have Blk @52 atm, so I didn't know if it worked as well in Seize. Same time, Flare has been nerfed on multi targets, so even 3 Flares in 12 seconds wouldn't create the healer sweats it used to. XD

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

They are going to balance items, not Phoenix Down though.

They could just use Phoenix Down as a "Reraise" on the open world - if you die while carrying one, you would get instantly revived. The 'Unique' trait of the item would make it impossible to exploit this, and while not being an extremely needed effect, a lot of people would use it, especially when leveling low-level characters and alts.

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This is how Phoenix Downs should operate imo. Would also be useful in relic fates and treasure hunts. But it should be strictly for solo open world type stuff.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

This is how Phoenix Downs should operate imo. Would also be useful in relic fates and treasure hunts. But it should be strictly for solo open world type stuff.

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Exactly! No using in dungeons or quest duties.

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Originally Posted by Airget

The game breaking balance with Phoenix Downs is compared to the MP cost to revive a target that has fallen. The negatives of falling in combat would be severely reduced to a point where PD's are must haves and not just an option which would cause issues for such an item to hold a huge necessity to raids and such.

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Make it weaker than a raise, 4-5s cast time, and 3min cooldown, without the immunity buff when rezz'd. Balance!

that way its still viable in an "oh SH-!" moment, but not your go-to, unless the healer is already overtaxed. Just a thought. Please don't eat me alive forums!


:P

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Originally Posted by Drivont

Make it weaker than a raise, 4-5s cast time, and 3min cooldown, without the immunity buff when rezz'd. Balance!

that way its still viable in an "oh SH-!" moment, but not your go-to, unless the healer is already overtaxed. Just a thought. Please don't eat me alive forums!


:P

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It does feel like, in a lot of fights, everyone is running for the doors once the two healers keel over...unless there is a smn...and they aren't running themselves.

Healing potions definitely need to be updated. The highest one available now doesn't even cover an auto attack.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

They are going to balance items, not Phoenix Down though.

They could just use Phoenix Down as a "Reraise" on the open world - if you die while carrying one, you would get instantly revived. The 'Unique' trait of the item would make it impossible to exploit this, and while not being an extremely needed effect, a lot of people would use it, especially when leveling low-level characters and alts.

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Thanks for the great suggestion! The dev. team would like to consider making changes to Phoenix Down, so this type of suggestion is really helpful. If you have any other suggestion regarding Phoenix Down, please make sure to post them so we can relay it to the dev. team.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Thanks for the great suggestion! The dev. team would like to consider making changes to Phoenix Down, so this type of suggestion is really helpful. If you have any other suggestion regarding Phoenix Down, please make sure to post them so we can relay it to the dev. team.

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Not to be rude or sarcastic, but I figure a reraise type thing would be common sense. I mean you are practically borrowing ideas from FFXI as it is. o_o But yeah I like that type of suggestion, do put it into fruition.

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

I am very touched that they choose one of my question!

I am.. very disappointed with the answer.

Since they are constantly 'balancing' everything, they should be able to do this.

Anyway, thanks for answering, I cracked a smile ;)

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Having a Phoenix down revive someone with 1 hp an a long cast timer limited to one use per battle would not be unbalanced

The Phoenix down is also an iconic FF item and must serve a purpose.

Raids do not need to be choreographed to the extent that they are.

Crutches are fine.

The difference between crutches and not is a smooth fast easy clear verses a clear.

FF14 has some of the most unforgiving raid content in any game I've played. Let's mix it up a bit

inb4

"Thordan EX progression, must bring Phoenix Downs and be willing to purchase more between wipes"

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Thanks for the great suggestion! The dev. team would like to consider making changes to Phoenix Down, so this type of suggestion is really helpful. If you have any other suggestion regarding Phoenix Down, please make sure to post them so we can relay it to the dev. team.

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One month (ok 3 weeks ;) ) before replying, but you did, thank you! :)

And yeah I would accept the idea of reviving outside; since you won't make it work anyway, so it would be worth something.

"If you have any other suggestion regarding Phoenix Down, please make sure to post them so we can relay it to the dev. team."

Well, it's what I thought I did on the first page. :confused:

could also enable phoenix downs to work in dungeons during combat, but not raids or trials specifically.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

inb4

"Thordan EX progression, must bring Phoenix Downs and be willing to purchase more between wipes"

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Except they are asking for raise items, not the removal of raise sickness, which would still interfere with using raise multiple times.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Thanks for the great suggestion! The dev. team would like to consider making changes to Phoenix Down, so this type of suggestion is really helpful. If you have any other suggestion regarding Phoenix Down, please make sure to post them so we can relay it to the dev. team.

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Sweet! Finally Pheonix downs will be worth something XD

I still say their use would be perfect for two situation, one keep them unique items and remove the battle restriction. Two remove Unique status and keep the "Not in Combat" restriction.

A third alternative would be to remove both restrictions, increese the cool down, and restrict the item to open world only (Similar to how the icirrus feathers can only be use in PvP)

It's just a shame that their use is so incredibly limited simply because they are unique AND unusable in battle, If nothing was ever going to be done with them it may have simply been better never to impliment them to start with.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Thanks for the great suggestion! The dev. team would like to consider making changes to Phoenix Down, so this type of suggestion is really helpful. If you have any other suggestion regarding Phoenix Down, please make sure to post them so we can relay it to the dev. team.

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I like the idea of it as a reraise, but honestly, I think the Dev team is waaay to cautious with raise in this game, I mean cnj's get the non-battle version before you even do any party content and arcanist doesn't get it much later than that. The ability to raise is pretty common and widely available and I don't know what the Dev team is so scared of by restricting it. Just remove the no battle raising requirement off of both raise and Phoenix downs. With the rare tag it's not like Phoenix downs would be overpowered, everyone having the ability to battle raise once isn't going to break anything. And don't give me any slippery slope arguments of "oh but then everyone would be required to have one!" No, SMNs can battle raise you don't see everyone being required to go SMN for it. It would be nothing but a QoL change.

Also, why are Phoenix downs limited to like 3-4 quests? Sell them in the potion shop for 1.2k Gil like old FF's and add the company expectorant item you can get from ventures as a GC item, again they're really nothing special, there's no reason to make them so limited.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

I like the idea of it as a reraise, but honestly, I think the Dev team is waaay to cautious with raise in this game, I mean cnj's get the non-battle version before you even do any party content and arcanist doesn't get it much later than that. The ability to raise is pretty common and widely available and I don't know what the Dev team is so scared of by restricting it. Just remove the no battle raising requirement off of both raise and Phoenix downs. With the rare tag it's not like Phoenix downs would be overpowered, everyone having the ability to battle raise once isn't going to break anything. And don't give me any slippery slope arguments of "oh but then everyone would be required to have one!" No, SMNs can battle raise you don't see everyone being required to go SMN for it. It would be nothing but a QoL change.

Also, why are Phoenix downs limited to like 3-4 quests? Sell them in the potion shop for 1.2k Gil like old FF's and add the company expectorant item you can get from ventures as a GC item, again they're really nothing special, there's no reason to make them so limited.

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I agree with the "Balancing issue" of phoenix downs to be nonsensical, The Icarus Feathers are perfect examples of something that would break game balance. By combining them with invigorate and/or goad then a smart team could have effectively limitless TP. Thus why it's PvP only. The ability for Tactical Abuse how ever is not present on the pheonix downs dues to the fact that the weakness debuff and unique status would make them more of a "Last Ditch Effort" when things went horribly wrong. But the Debuff, insane cooldown, and "unique item" status would make them less preferable to simply starting over at all but the last few percentages of a boss battle where a smart use could potentially save the raid but still have enough risk to where it wouldn't help thus balancing its self out.

The Revival abilities and items are already locked in the power scale so there is no risk to power creep. I know many cases where a proper rez spell wouldn't save the raid so there is no reason to expect that the item would shift the balance in any way, let alone a negative one.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Thanks for the great suggestion! The dev. team would like to consider making changes to Phoenix Down, so this type of suggestion is really helpful. If you have any other suggestion regarding Phoenix Down, please make sure to post them so we can relay it to the dev. team.

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For elemental materias, how about this: if you meld an elemental materia to an item you can later meld materia of another element to that slot overwriting the old one. This is meant just for elemental ones. This way you can adjust your materias depending on what content you're running if you commit to saving some slots for resistances without having to redo the whole melds all over again.

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Originally Posted by Sicno

For elemental materias, how about this: if you meld an elemental materia to an item you can later meld materia of another element to that slot overwriting the old one. This is meant just for elemental ones. This way you can adjust your materias depending on what content you're running if you commit to saving some slots for resistances without having to redo the whole melds all over again.

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Or elemetal materia can also a attribute for weapon appearace. For example: the more fire materia I have on my weapon, the more flames will be emitted from it. Same for lighting and water. Idk, just a thought.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

Or elemetal materia can also a attribute for weapon appearace. For example: the more fire materia I have on my weapon, the more flames will be emitted from it. Same for lighting and water. Idk, just a thought.

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As much as I would love such a feature I don't think the dev team would rework every single meldable weapon in the game for this feature with their limited resources.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

It's just a shame that their use is so incredibly limited simply because they are unique AND unusable in battle, If nothing was ever going to be done with them it may have simply been better never to impliment them to start with.

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Exactly, right now, it's just a waste of space, and they are the ones saying they have limited space.. o.O

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Originally Posted by Sicno

As much as I would love such a feature I don't think the dev team would rework every single meldable weapon in the game for this feature with their limited resources.

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I'd really love to see SE's resources now because it seems everyone is right beside the dev teams with all their supplies within eye sight. What do you mean limited resources??