Savage Mode Dungeons

Its not much to ask but can we please have Savage Dungeons on duty finder where I don't have to know a party of 8 ahead of time?

If the content is difficult enough to be called "Savage" I don't think you'd want to queue for it in the duty finder.

Plus if it is set to savage, you'd want it to be its own Duty Finder list or else your going to see a LOT of people instantly drop from the group.

If it is set to pre-arranged parties how does anyone give it a try at all? Not very easy to get 7 others together at the same time, and if it is so difficult then it gives players something to work on. If they drop out they can always try again. It should be in a Duty Finder list of try at your own risk not mandatory to continue to anything else.

Firstly, people do it quite easily by communicating with other players and FC members and arranging times for a group to come together and do it. Infact two groups were doing it in my FC until recently.

Secondly, I think your vastly underestimating the amount of co ordination and difficulty that exists at Savage.

If you want to do it I suggest looking for a Static group. There are plenty around and many FCs have at least one.

Call them "DR: Brutal", make them harder and throw 8 people into DF with more tome candies drops. I may like it.

Any fight can be won in duty finder, just need a good group that knows the fight. But getting a group of 8 ahead of time is more of a challenge than any fight I would say. lol

I thought this was gonna be requesting actually challenging versions of the 4-man dungeons. D: Disappointed.

Actually if I could even try Savage I would like to see more of them in the future.

I liked the idea of savage dungeons until I see you want them duty finder-able


Lolnope

I like the idea of savage being able to be played by everyone. Only the great players would succeed. Not who you know!

Too many players can't even manage A3/A4 normal. Let alone the fact that most DPS' in this game don't even push anywhere near enough damage to meet DPS checks. Doing a PF group means when you get those players that simply can't do the damage or keep wiping the group, then you can replace them without replacing the rest of the group, in DF that means a hell of a lot of vote abandoning and starting again with a new group or vote kicking to only hope that you get the correct class to replace the one you just kicked.

You aint completing savage with group compositions like double paladin/whitemage 3 bards and a blackmage. DF is just a huge no go, too many things that you can't control that would ultimately mean wipefest or abandoning the group. The reason why its hard to get groups in PF together, is because the loot has a lockout, and most people do the weekly with a static, once loot restrictions are removed PF lights up with people making groups for the harder content, happens every time.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

Not very easy to get 7 others together at the same time[...]

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You should have a talk with my former WoW raid leader. Who had to somehow get thirty-nine, in numbers, 39 people together at the same time to then give everyone instructions via TS and chat in case someone's TS is working up. I still pity him.

Change it to 4-man savage dungeons without DF and I am in.

Yeah I wouldn't mind savage dungeons but I agree on peoples views about not adding it to DF. SOF is a prime example of adding difficult content with people leaving on the 1st go.

I doubt there would ever be savage mode dungeons, and it comes to no surprise but the live letter basically said some dungeons would be made easier.
So is this an indication of the general population, that people want things easy?
Only things that will remain Savage are probably content like how coil was and Alex

Try doing T7, T9, T12 or T13 in Duty Finder, see how much fun that is. We're still at a point where only a few hundred people have cleared Alex Savage, and that's after many many hours of practicing together with the same people that they know what to expect from.

You don't want these fights in DF, trust me. You'll get to practice the first few minutes of the fight, wipe, repeat until someone ragequits. Get a training party up in Party Finder instead and try to find a few friends who'll join, it'll be a much better experience for everyone involved.

EDIT: Are we talking about dungeons or raids? Re-reading the thread title and OP made me confused. :D

If duty finder was available for practice, it would make things easier to try in the first place. Then people could get a pre-arranged group to try to do more. If players want things easier, then maybe they don't like a challenge. But what about players that do? We don't have all day to get others to try in the first place.
People quit on the 1st go no matter how difficult. The fight is easy and they quit anyways, so does it really matter?

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

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No it wouldn\\'t. Savage is difficult. Most players can\\'t do it. So you\\'d just wipe near the beginning of the fight. And then maybe your group gets better at the beginning, but then bam, timer expires, you have to queue again, and what do you know, you get 7 newbies and have to go through just the beginning over and over again. That\\'s not practice. Plus every group handles stuff differently.

That's why people form statics. CONSISTENCY. Plus you typically have everyone on voice chat to help coordinate the group. You have no idea how important voice chat can be. Back when T9 was progression, having someone who could call out mechanics was crucial.


Also you say you don't have time to play all the time. That's also a reason to have statics. You schedule times that everyone is free. You don't raid all day every day.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

No it wouldn\\'t. Savage is difficult. Most players can\\'t do it. So you\\'d just wipe near the beginning of the fight. And then maybe your group gets better at the beginning, but then bam, timer expires, you have to queue again, and what do you know, you get 7 newbies and have to go through just the beginning over and over again. That\\'s not practice. Plus every group handles stuff differently.

That's why people form statics. CONSISTENCY. Plus you typically have everyone on voice chat to help coordinate the group. You have no idea how important voice chat can be. Back when T9 was progression, having someone who could call out mechanics was crucial.


Also you say you don't have time to play all the time. That's also a reason to have statics. You schedule times that everyone is free. You don't raid all day every day.

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I beat T9 without static and lots of others Turns. People quitting happens no matter what, even in statics.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

Its not much to ask but can we please have Savage Dungeons on duty finder where I don't have to know a party of 8 ahead of time?

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Not before next tier of Alexander, which come with 3.2

You should know it.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

I beat T9 without static and lots of others Turns. People quitting happens no matter what, even in statics.

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After 2.4, I guess

And when did you beat them? Now? You do realize the fights have been heavily nerfed in both mechanics and in the form of Echo right? If you didn't beat it during progression then your point is moot.

I beat T1-T9 before any echo without static, T7 being the hardest. But I enjoyed the challenge. If things aren't available to try though, how can anything be fun?

Were they in DF when you beat them? Cuz if so, they had been nerfed and had the echo.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

I beat T1-T9 before any echo without static, T7 being the hardest. But I enjoyed the challenge. If things aren't available to try though, how can anything be fun?

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None of coil was available through DF before they got nerfed and had Echo added, so the only way that's possible is if you joined a preformed group, which means it shouldn't be a problem to do so for Savage

No, Party Finder, but I tried many, many, times before succeeding, just like Duty Finder, so no they weren't nerfed at all cause there was no echo then.
Party Finder, is no different than Duty Finder, if its random people joining, just need right group to win.

Still dont understand people with the agurment "dont put it in DF because no one going to make it and its going to be a waste of time"... so?, let them waste their time its no like you going to use DF anyways for that. I mean i usderstand some people want the content in DF because sometime its a pain in the ass to make a team in PF wastin time without make anything, if you enter in DF and wipe all the time at least you are doing something.

Thats only for people like me who dont like gathering craft and all that stuff tho.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

No, Party Finder, but I tried many, many, times before succeeding, just like Duty Finder, so no they weren't nerfed at all cause there was no echo then.

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So if party finder worked then, use it now. I don't see the issue.

What Savage are you even trying to do? Second Coil? Because according to the Lodestone you don't have any job at 60.

And good luck finding people who want to run synced. The general population on this game doesn't run old content for the challenge. They're only running for glamour and titles

About the people quitting, they quit even before the gate disappears because they know it's going to be a pain to do and people join DF to clear content, not to wipe over and over again. You have better chance of going in with a group that you know yourself will do well the meeting randoms who you have no idea how good they are in DF. Not saying it's not possible thought but you have better chance of clearing content with people you know.

And about the people RQ even in statics, that's a very poor well I wouldn't call it a static.

you say you like challenge content which is fair enough as do many people out there do but you want to clear that challenge content and you'd have much better chance at PF then you would do in DF. Even easy content in DF people can still mess up and rage quit after 1 or 2 tries but stuff like SOF people was leaving before it even started.

For the T9 DF part, you'd lucky to get a group of people who are all at the same phase and know who does what.

See with PF, you can have more control over who joins your party by setting up the rules for it. *bar in mind you'll might get those odd 1 or 2 newbies who try to join a kill group.

I run for challenge, and to have fun. I guess Savage for Second Coil will be the last then? I guess maybe one day it will be playable for everybody?

I would love this as an idea but. This needs be a separate Roulette and not mixed with the "normal" mode ones for obvious reasons. Then it needs to give you a different reward. Completely new tokens? Vanity? Needs something good as a reward for motivation. I doubt this will ever be implemented though. There are a lot of dungeons so lots of work and this also needs to not break the balance of the current content and they also need to work on its rewards. I think they are better spending their resources and time for the next patches. I think we need more "fresh" content than recycled old. That being said I wouldn't mind to see this in game though.

We already had savage mode dungeons.
It was doing an expert roulette on release of 3.0 and getting 2 bards in your party as dps.
Luckily they fixed that.

Agree on this, correct, more new content, but challenge and better rewards for succeeding is the answer.

I really like the idea of savage dungeons.

WoW added a version with mythic dungeons.

It's a great idea and they have high participation rates in wow. Good luck getting this idea implemented though. Unless you walk in and cough on the boss to kill it, players around here won't want it.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

Agree on this, correct, more new content, but challenge and better rewards for succeeding is the answer.

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You know this game is just pandering to casuals right? Just look at the live letter. Nerfing dungeons.

If you want a high degree of challenge with meaningful rewards, find a different game.

So, over 4 million players, and none like a good challenge???

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

So if party finder worked then, use it now. I don't see the issue.

What Savage are you even trying to do? Second Coil? Because according to the Lodestone you don't have any job at 60.

And good luck finding people who want to run synced. The general population on this game doesn't run old content for the challenge. They're only running for glamour and titles

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If you check his achievement dates, he completed both t5 and t8 and 9 after the echo was added.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

So, over 4 million players, and none like a good challenge???

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Oh there's plenty that do, except they form statics with friends and such so they can enjoy the challenge together. This is an MMO, you don't just play the whole thing solo

Because, it took so long to get a party, I had no choice.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

So, over 4 million players, and none like a good challenge???

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Who says challenges have to be built into the game reward system?

You want a challenge clear an expert with a set group and time it.
Proceed to attempt to beat that time by shaving off every second you can using any means available.

That's what my group does when we are required to farm experts when we are preparing for content.

Trust me we make it far more challenging and competitive than any developer would release content as. (as to not isolate 99% of the paying population)

As a bonus you get shit done faster and learn valuable optimizations that can help you in raids.