New relic will be i215?

Relics vs. raid weapons as best weapon in the game

Again, because the relic weapons are a quest that more players can complete, the 'best weapon' available in the game will continue to alternate between the current raid weapons and the relic weapon. That is, for a time the raid weapon will be the best obtainable, and the relic will later surpass that, and so on.

(New relic quests, for reference, will begin in patch 3.1.)
http://www.rpgfan.com/news/2015/3463.html

So raid weapoon now is i210, and if relic will surprass it, it has to be i215 or 220, right?

relic will be on par with all current and future raid weapons. As it always has.

Speculation bait thread.

I don't remember relics ever being more powerful than raid weapons. They always upgraded to the same ilvl or a little less than the current tier but there was never a situation I can recall where the relics had a higher ilvl unless you compared them to a previous raid tier.

It depends on what the new relic quest is like, and how many phases of relic weapons we go through. Your source is from E3, and a month after that Yoshida wasn't sure if the new relic would be at the launch of 3.1 or later, such as 3.15

I kind of expect we will see something in 3.1 that is relatively simple to obtain, and a grindy upgrade process in 3.15. So maybe they start at 200, and then build up to 210.

I was surprised the Alex weapons weren't 215 to begin with, and I highly doubt they will add 215 relics without buffing the alex weapons first. Relic weapons tend to lag behind other weapons in terms of ilevel, before being boosted to match.

It wasn't so much the ilvl as the customizable stats on the relic weapons, and these stats were sometimes superior to those acquired from raids. And some of the raid weapons had some gods-awful secondary stats.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

I don't remember relics ever being more powerful than raid weapons. They always upgraded to the same ilvl or a little less than the current tier but there was never a situation I can recall where the relics had a higher ilvl unless you compared them to a previous raid tier.

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Well, after the stage where you customized the relic (was that Novus or Nexus?) it can be argued that the relic weapons were more powerful not because of higher ilevel, but simply because the stats were tailored to your specific playstyle and class.

Turn 5 had i95 weapons, while Zenith (patch 2.0) was i90.
Turn 9 had i115 weapons, while Novus was i110 (patch 2.2). Only a patch later (2.3) Nexus was added and evened the iLevel of i115.
Turn 13 had i135 wapons, while Zodiac Braves was i125 (patch 2.4). Only a patch later (2.5) Zeta was added and evened the iLevel of i135.

The only reason Relic weapons were better than Raid weapons in some cases is because of the customizable stats. But considering that secondary stats are quite a bit less important than they used to be, the new Relic might never be stronger than the current Raid weapon.

I read 1215 instead of i215 and almost got an heart attack.. *searches for glasses*

Turn 5 had i90 weapons actually. It wasn't until later they were changed to i95.

I205 i guess. Anything more would surprise me. x)

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Originally Posted by KeluBehemoth

Turn 5 had i90 weapons actually. It wasn't until later they were changed to i95.

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Possible, doesn't change anything though. Still the Relic was only equal iLevel to the top Raid gear.

Based on this, it's most likely that the new Relic will be between 200 and 210.

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

Possible, doesn't change anything though. Still the Relic was only equal iLevel to the top Raid gear.

Based on this, it's most likely that the new Relic will be between 200 and 210.

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relics were 5ilvls below until the last stage, so yeah 205 for relics

wonder whats going to happen for brd/mch since we gain only 1 WD from 200 to 210 :S ....

I hope the relics stay on par with endgame even if have to beat A4S to obtain a key item for the last upgrade. Because on the long road relic will be more work done than just clear the final turn of each savage once.
Actually relic should be the best weapon, imo. Instead making us doing some "boring" chores of casual content and farm stuff they could make us obtain each key item from each floor of alexander savage and Void Ark.

We could go even further going beyond that was making us run through coil T1-13 (Including second coil savage) and CT, ST, WoD and extreme primals old content as well to make it alive again for our relic than spam dungeons forever. At least was more interesting and since some of them are hard was a 100% drop. We clear content and get rewarded than bet on our precious RNG God on easy stuff forever.

With this we would redo all previous old endgame and new all together for best weapon.

You would get initial 205 then after final part of quest beating A4S would upgrade to 215.

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Originally Posted by Moonleg

Well, after the stage where you customized the relic (was that Novus or Nexus?) it can be argued that the relic weapons were more powerful not because of higher ilevel, but simply because the stats were tailored to your specific playstyle and class.

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Yes, I know. I should have specified that I meant ilvl only since that's what the OP is referring to. I thought about removing the word "powerful" specifically to avoid a reply like this, but alas my laziness stings me like venomous barbs!

And it's Novus. Novus was the first customization stage.

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Originally Posted by Shiki_Lockhart

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you just want to watch the world burn!

but no on a serious note, that will killed the purpose of the relics, if we need to farm it from a raid might swell just get the raid weapon...

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Originally Posted by Dree-Elle

Speculation bait thread.

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Agreed. That article is from frickin July. Nothing of substance here, just speculation and clickbait.

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Originally Posted by Shiki_Lockhart

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The purpose of the relic weapon is to be a high end weapon casuals and hardcore alike can farm, not one or the other. To be blunt, your idea isn't going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Ercapote

you just want to watch the world burn!

but no on a serious note, that will killed the purpose of the relics, if we need to farm it from a raid might swell just get the raid weapon...

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Better than spam 20+ a single dungeon for the item. I remember some guys having nightmare in AV doing over 60 runs! At least it would be a only once clear. T1-13, crystal tower series and primal ex are so easy now that you would one-shot most of them with current gear and ilvl. You would only have harder time on alex savage and beat once. But that is the same as obtaining best weapon right?

I mean if you don't beat A4S you wont get best weapon. You will be sit with relic 205 but if you could win you could surpass savage weapon.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

The purpose of the relic weapon is to be a high end weapon casuals and hardcore alike can farm, not one or the other. To be blunt, your idea isn't going to happen.

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And you can get relic still just not at same lvl of savage lvl or are you telling me that people can't beat T1-13 with this high lvl? I mean people can even skip T9 divebombs with high dps alone and many other mechanics in other floors >_>

And primals the same. See garuda now? Burn her after aerial blast and killing her in 2m because we skip the last phase with tornados and sisters.

Aside of that I know that kind of relic wont happen which is sad. Relic should be the best.

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Originally Posted by Shiki_Lockhart

Better than spam 20+ a single dungeon for the item. I remember some guys having nightmare in AV doing over 60 runs! At least it would be a only once clear. T1-13, crystal tower series and primal ex are so easy now that you would one-shot most of them with current gear and ilvl. You would only have harder time on alex savage and beat once. But that is the same as obtaining best weapon right?

I mean if you don't beat A4S you wont get best weapon. You will be sit with relic 205 but if you could win you could surpass savage weapon.

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Some people are literally unable to finish Alex Savage, at least with the current gear. Relic is for everyone willing to put the time in.
= your suggestion doesn't work.

You need a static for Savage. I play randomly and can't dedicate time for that, so I prefer relics because they are solo-friendly (not because they require low level content or grindy, that's a bad side of them actually).
But if you are saying new relic will be i205 then that means Yoshida is incorrect. I'm sorry, but I trust him more than you.

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Originally Posted by Shiki_Lockhart

You would get initial 205 then after final part of quest beating A4S would upgrade to 215.

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The relic quest is supposed to be completely separate from the raid content. They've said that multiple times now.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

But if you are saying new relic will be i205 then that means Yoshida is incorrect. I'm sorry, but I trust him more than you.

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I don't even know if we know that the relic will be out in 3.1, much less the item level it'll come in at.

There was talk at one point of pushing it to 3.15.

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Originally Posted by Shiki_Lockhart

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Yeah, people still can't beat it. But did you not also include Savage? Those fights are very mechanic heavy as far as I'm aware, and as such don't fit into SE's idea of "casual". But as I said, it's meant to be very accessible, if you want the best, raid Alexander Savage.

Remember that the "only" reason the relic was better than the endgame raid weapon was because you could set the stats for it.
The original Relic, Zenith, Atma, and Animus had preset stats like everything else. It was only with Novus, the 4th upgrade, that we could choose our stats.
So frankly it will be up in the air as to whether the relic is better or worse than what is available now.

The bigger question is, do we really care all that much?
3.0 cut the value of secondary stats by a factor of about 5, while keeping the value of your primary stat and weapon damage roughly the same. Especially in the case of weapons, which do not have accuracy (the one stat where an excess is detrimental), it really will not make a significant difference whether you end up with Det/Crit, Det/Speed, or Speed/Crit... Okay aside from Bard and Sch who have mechanics that specifically favor Crit.

We should also remember how the weapon level vs patch scheme worked in the 2.x series.
New tier comes out, general gear from that tier is X, tome gear is X-10, upgradeable to X using raid drops, and the weapon is X+5.
At the same time, the Relic is capped at X-10.
Next patch, we get the 24 man raid that drops X-10 and eventually upgrade items to bring the tome gear from X-10 to X. Around the same time, the Relic goes up to X, which matches the upgraded tome weapons, and is 5 below the raid weapons.
A few mini-patches later, the endgame raids receive Echo, the alliance raid is uncapped, and the Relic goes up to X+5 to match the endgame weapon (that is now easier to get due to alliance upgrade X gear and Echo).

In this set of patches, the endgame weapon is 210 same as the gear, our current X, not X+5 as we had in 2.x a few months after BCoB was cleared.
It is also quite possible that because there is no "new content for the non-hardcore-raider" in Savage, that Savage will not get the Echo treatment, and will only be indirectly nerfed by the availability of more 200 gear and eventually the upgrade tokens.
This would put us in a position where the endgame raid drops 210, the alliance raid + 990 tomes gets you a 210, and the Relic... IDK, the Relic will likely start at 205-210, and go to 215 a month before the next "endgame raid" comes out.

This all sounds well and good, until you throw in 2 wrenches.
1. The Relic will likely come with preset stats, OR we will have ANOTHER long and painful 2 month Alexandrite grind followed by severe wallet hemorrhaging to set the stats ourselves.
2. The new airship content promises the chance at 210 equipment with randomly generated secondary stats. Assuming this is in any way farmable, it is likely that someone who has enough time to devote to the Relic questline will probably just grind out the "right" random 210 weapon and be done with it... Or again due to the currently low stat weights for secondary stats, you can just get your tome weapon to 210 and be done with it.

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So frankly it will be up in the air as to whether the relic is better or worse than what is available now.

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I'm hoping the 'advantage' people with relic already done includes keeping the secondary stats of the zeta. With people jumping from nothing to 3.0 relic having to novus-scroll their relic (perhaps in a different way than Novus was) to benefit.

This would also apply to AST, DRK and MCH, it would be the one of the extra steps they got to do. And at least the 'choose your secondary stats' step makes sense and is desirable. The other step would be to create a 'base' for the 3.0, which might be the i200 eso.

There has been no confirmation of weapons from airship adventures. Only armor from my understanding. And 210 armor will be more rare than people think. Relics typically get and ilvl bosky before the next raid patch for about 6-8 weeks. This is how it's always been. There is also no confirmation on a savage nerf or echo yet. Seeing as how savage won't be necessary for the next raid tier or story it's possible that there won't be an outward nerf.

Also "more powerful" doesn't mean higher ilvl. The larger stat caps on zetas and customizable subs made a properly stated zeta bis for every single class and capable if higher damage output.

Expect to have a 210 relic by 3.2 patch release that should be bis if the trend continues from ARR.

I honestly think the advantage that the zeta wi bring will be not having to "create" a new weapon ala crafting and melding. It would be nice to keep secondaries but I'm not holding my breath. The advantage for 1.0 relics in 2.0 was to skip the weapon creation and primal part of the beginning quest and move straight to the zenith step so that's what I'm assuming said advantage will be.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Yeah, people still can't beat it. But did you not also include Savage? Those fights are very mechanic heavy as far as I'm aware, and as such don't fit into SE's idea of "casual". But as I said, it's meant to be very accessible, if you want the best, just wait for the relic and island exploration and forget raiding.

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fixed that for ya.

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Originally Posted by KeluBehemoth

Turn 5 had i90 weapons actually. It wasn't until later they were changed to i95.

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Nobody ever remembers that lol

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

I honestly think the advantage that the zeta wi bring will be not having to "create" a new weapon ala crafting and melding. It would be nice to keep secondaries but I'm not holding my breath. The advantage for 1.0 relics in 2.0 was to skip the weapon creation and primal part of the beginning quest and move straight to the zenith step so that's what I'm assuming said advantage will be.

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I doubt it will involve crafting and melding, though I wouldn't mind a new source of income. And it better keep the 'chosen stats' thing. Working for a relic with crap stats is well, bad. Drops are RNG, but relics are something you work towards, even if it involves RNG somewhere.

With Alex weapons being i210 I highly doubt relics will go higher. I'm expecting relics to start at i200 and have their +1 upgrade push them to i210 till 3.2 brings us new equipment.

One thing I'm interested in is if primal weapon tokens will come into play during the relic process. They seem like they'd be a shoe-in and a nice alternative to grinding for random drops in dungeons.

I guess stage 1 will be lower then best raid gear (not enough grind to get it).
Stage 3 can be better