AST soloing in Seal Rock

Do you think playing without the rest of the party is viable?

AST has:
-Natural provoke in pvp
-Good self mitigation and both short and long term survivability


I play it this way and it is enjoyable in its own way (video) but the rest of the team thinks its not good, because obviously the party is one healer down. I justify going off on my own by thinking it distracts the enemies (like using CC) and its sometimes possible to encourage the two opposing GCs to fight each other by pulling them to each other. This provides some indirect benefits to the team.


Without consideration to the fun factor, what do you think? Is it a viable strategy.

I see AST do this sometimes on my data center. Sure you can go around kiting 1 to 4 ppl indefinitely but this assumes you are playing against idiots who would actually waste their time chasing a lone ast. I myself as a dragoon do not bother chasing them and if they try to get my attention in a feeble attempt to provoke me to chase them (usually by trying to heavy me, stun me or cast dots for pathetic dmg on me) I will literally spam /laugh emote at them for a couple seconds and just keep on ignoring them. You would be much more valuable to your team assisting them at nodes than wandering off hoping you can find a couple of noobs who would actually chase you all over the map.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

I see AST do this sometimes on my data center. Sure you can go around kiting 1 to 4 ppl indefinitely but this assumes you are playing against idiots who would actually waste their time chasing a lone ast. I myself as a dragoon do not bother chasing them and if they try to get my attention in a feeble attempt to provoke me to chase them (usually by trying to heavy me, stun me or cast dots for pathetic dmg on me) I will literally spam /laugh emote at them for a couple seconds and just keep on ignoring them. You would be much more valuable to your team assisting them at nodes than wandering off hoping you can find a couple of noobs who would actually chase you all over the map.

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Getting people to chase forever never happens on my server (JP server), mostly I try to close the gap between the 2 opposing GCs. Everyone that attacks me usually gives up and goes out after a minute or less if I don't die.

Personally, I think if you're goal is to run around fairly aimlessly and troll a GC (that your own team may not even be focusing on), you're not being very productive, so in that sense I agree with Dimitrii that you're better off actually, you know, being around people that need heals. And I also agree that any less than 4 people chasing an AST or SCH who already has momentum on them could be wasting time.

You at one point "distracted" an enemy GC at a tomelith who looked like they weren't going anywhere anyway (a WAR that I assume didn't even see you just stood at that tomelith up the cliff at mid). However, I'm not going to deny that ASTs are a great independent job; and if you're going to be running off on your own, I'd hope you're at least preempting tomelith spawns in potentially risky areas or stealing unguarded ones. I love AST's ability to keep itself alive in tight situations, but I'm not going to be constantly putting myself in harm's way alone just because I can. Especially when you inevitably run into a small group of players that know how to stunlock + melt even the mighty SCHs and ASTs.

I'd feel more useful tossing constant heals + Noct shields on other party members that can actually kill enemies.

EDIT: If all it takes is one AST to pull an entire team into a pointless fight with the other opposing team, I can't help but feel like you've just discovered some terrible players and any player worth their salt would turn around as soon as they see you running into the other team's camp.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

You at one point "distracted" an enemy GC at a tomelith who looked like they weren't going anywhere anyway (a WAR that I assume didn't even see you just stood at that tomelith up the cliff at mid)

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The video was for fun, but the situation was the WAR used a knockback and sent me there but didn't know I didn't fall off. He later realises but falls off trying to come to me. My team controls the tomelith just below, so I think it kept them busy from attacking the tome below. Either way, video was for fun and isn't really related.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

EDIT: If all it takes is one AST to pull an entire team into a pointless fight with the other opposing team

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To clarify, its a fight for a tomelith, so the enemy has a choice to attack our tomelith or the other teams tomelith (and both may seem to be reasonable choices). I try to get them to attack the other one.

e.g. I am in team A and there are 4 tomeliths on the map:

A-------B
---------
A------
------C

A: 100/800
B: 300/800
C: 200/800

C has the choice of attacking A or B:
C may attack A as A is likely to be not as defended as B, because team A has 2 tomeliths to defend
C may attack B as B is in the lead

From here I will go into C from the north and try to lure them up to attack B's tomelith. Once team B comes in contact with member of C, their alliances may commit to a teamfight or back off. Either way, members from their team have been drawn away from A.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

I can't help but feel like you've just discovered some terrible players and any player worth their salt would turn around as soon as they see you running into the other team's camp.

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Yes, it only works if enough people are commited chasing me. It usually ends in me dying halfway if theres half their alliance there (or the other GC comes as well and they meet up and I get away), but they end up continuing going up for the other GC's tomelith after I die. When its less than 4 people, they will turn around and go back when they see the other GC. At that point I run along with them who are running away, applying heavy etc then funny stuff happens - probably no major effect on the game itself

Atm is the astro to strong for pvp, there is whm and schol a joke.
1,5k-3k heal + 130% from heal as shield, so you have 3k-6k at the end! And that with an instant cast ...!!??
Don't know what SE do, maybe they should play there own game and not only put the shit in.
Check my astro video to this topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o9XSI5bTtc

Sry, now right link.

AST is the most OP healer right now. 2-3 DPS can gang up on one AST and he would be survived for a minute then the DPS will give up and let him go.

Baiting people into your kill zone is a perfectly viable strategy, but please do this within the scope of your team's objectives. Just dont abandon your team and play seal rock all alone. It would make you a burden for everyone.

It really depends on what's going on in the field. I play SCH and I only do something like this to delay another GC from hitting my tomelith, but eventually run back. A few dps will get mad they couldn't kill me, so I can run into my GC and get a few kills from tunnel visioned dps. That and the 10-15 second set back can make a big difference. It's the only time I feel really comfortable doing it. But, yes, a viable strategy, if your team doesn't need you healing. That is your primary responsibility. Unless, I would say, there are two or more other healers in your party. I often choose to play SCH just so I can tank more instead of heal. If I see the other healers suck, then I heal full time. Like I said, it depends. Are there other healers? Are they keeping up? Does your GC need you? Etc.

As someone who does shot calling for the Adders; I main AST and I do almost exactly what OP says.
Almost sounds like a troll, but it's not. AST's superior healing and slipperiness allows us to do the following sorts of tactics.

-AST and NIN are the two jobs who can effectively "scout" the other team and still make it out alive.

-AST shines when you can completely "Provoke" a whole alliance of dumb melee to attack you, use Attunement, and have multiple caster LBs go off where you are. Bye bye.

-AST even further shines when you can redirect an entire alliance to go one way (maybe even into attacking another alliance instead, or having a team go mid accidentally because of you) This effectively prevents sandwiches and can put you in prime attacking position for kills.

I really should stop giving out my secrets.

Its not exactly a secret to abuse the idiocy of the enemies, infact its the main reason AST is so powerful

Any healer can do this to a point, but you still need to be flexible. Your team might need your support and not you going in and soaking damage from 1 person who you baited while the rest of their team focuses other members of the team.

Even a SCH can soak A LOT of damage and still stay alive, probably not so easily like an Astro and not costantly running but up to me Astro are very great for self survivability, but not so good like a WHM or a SCH for make the party survive, also when an astro has to survive to 2 parties (with his group) they become really easily killable compared to a SCH if people focus him.

In my opinion they are fine for Seal rock, but probably will be too painful for a Wolves Den lv60 party if it will be similar to the lv 50 one :/

well i love kill them, double fell clave with berseker, inner release and with previous full swing could kill instantly problem is if you can't kill by "one combo" and they start to heal themselves, good dps or good Tank dps (warrior) wait the correct moment a distraction of healers (the base of life team regenerate) and destroy them surprisngly and fast and coordinates a full party burst to them. After the others are easy to kill. Really many of yours feeling save but only against noobs or non coordinate groups but against premades your tactic is a free point plus

pd: I see the video and people don't like much, really spaw the strong as astrologian in forums more probaility SE nerf them, for me perfect i enjoy to hunt when they think as they're save only most kills all, the true funny point is that even they could take 20k in less of a second if you know how give them in correct moment, really is better as mele lb, warrior i love you XD

I had the strangest time last night in a 24-man Seal Rock. An AST from the Flames kept following me around - me personally - and casting Stella/Combust on me for an entire game. Their WHM buddy would sometimes run up too and try to bother us, except they were easy to kill and kept leaving to go and help their main squad. Occasionally we'd try to kill the AST while we were camping on a node but as they were pretty much immortal with our job configuration and would probably have run straight back anyway after dying, in the end we just ignored them and I endured the constant noise of them casting on me for zero damage for the entire session. It was mildly inconvenient as I couldn't use my mount.

The silly thing was that I'm not very good anyway so the AST's efforts just meant their team was without a healer (sometimes two) in a lowman game and our main attack force absolutely crushed them. I still took two points and racked up some kills because I could just sleep them for long enough to do whatever needed doing. They achieved nothing and were just showing off how stupidly survivable they were at the expense of the team effort.

I'm glad they weren't on Maelstrom.

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Originally Posted by Aiden_Volkov

well i love kill them, double fell clave with berseker, inner release and with previous full swing could kill instantly problem is if you can't kill

pd: I see the video

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I don't think berserk full swing double fell cleave can kill alone(melee lb for 9k doesn't, seen fell cleave crit for 4.5k) - they need to be already damaged or stunned/heavy first. But:
-If they are already damaged it is likely they would have built immunity to CC
-If they don't have immunity then they are likely on full hp
This excludes non vit ASTs of course

Holmgang also isn't very useful as a CC unless you got 3 of them. My immediate reaction would be purify and leave the war standing there, or attunement if purify is down.

As you said, you need a coordinated group to kill one. But to be fair, it would still be even if the AST has a coordinated group

AST is a troll, the only way to win is to not play with them. But DF players can't resist the urge.

A better video

Here, more action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_aD...ature=youtu.be

That warrior btw 1:00~1:26 made my day. Lol

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Originally Posted by Sylkis

Holmgang also isn't very useful as a CC unless you got 3 of them. My immediate reaction would be purify and leave the war standing there, or attunement if purify is down.

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Purify also removes holmgangs snare effect from WAR, just wanted to point that out :>

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Purify also removes holmgangs snare effect from WAR, just wanted to point that out :>

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Strange, I always see the holmgang chain stretch really long. They must be not following me

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Originally Posted by Sylkis

Strange, I always see the holmgang chain stretch really long. They must be not following me

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Their purify has been on CD propably(or they dont know it works on holm snare), those pesky summoners kinda forces purify use if you dont want to get bursted :P

PS: What makes this even better is that even when purify removes holm self-snare it doesnt remove its effect from target, so it can work as an escape skill if you purify yourself as soon as you casted it.

I think a lot of people don't utilize Diurnal AST enough. I know it can be fun to run around as a nigh unkillable damage sponge, but you can pump out some good healing and really help with cross healing with the regens, and you can still escape some pretty silly situations if you can sprint + lightspeed heal yourself.

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

I think a lot of people don't utilize Diurnal AST enough. I know it can be fun to run around as a nigh unkillable damage sponge, but you can pump out some good healing and really help with cross healing with the regens, and you can still escape some pretty silly situations if you can sprint + lightspeed heal yourself.

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The regen pales in comparison to the shields when those shields wear off almost instantly, WHM is better at regen

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Originally Posted by Sylkis

The regen pales in comparison to the shields when those shields wear off almost instantly, WHM is better at regen

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AST regen stacks with WHMs, and assuming the enemy isn't focusing you, you can do much more with them.

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

I think a lot of people don't utilize Diurnal AST enough. I kno w it can be fun to run around as a nigh unkillable damage sponge, but you can pump out some good healing and really help with cross healing with the regens, and you can still escape some pretty silly situations if you can sprint + lightspeed heal yourself.

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I prefer diural over noct stance, lately i tend to double buff my team before going in. Your certainly right you can still survive some hairy situations without noct.

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

assuming the enemy isn't focusing you

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This thread assumes they are


WHM regen also stacks with itself I think? Yes, regen in general is better for a (unorganised df) party.

WHM regens don't stack in PvP.

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Originally Posted by Sylkis

I don't think berserk full swing double fell cleave can kill alone(melee lb for 9k doesn't, seen fell cleave crit for 4.5k)

As you said, you need a coordinated group to kill one. But to be fair, it would still be even if the AST has a coordinated group the urge.

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I did double fell clave first 5k and inmediatly after 7.4k and Astro go down, maybe because i make a combination of full critic accesories and gear, but yes no always can destroy by myself an Astrologian if he/she percives i'll go against him/her. I always try, but, because some times the enormous inesperate critical damage deal suprised or they don't expected so much and kill fast, like i say if "supercombo" isn't enough and haven't some good dps to finish him the best action is ignore astrologian or if they must heal his companions then yes, burst him so they must decide selfconservation and let others die or try to save the other healer/tank and died bursted.

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

I think a lot of people don't utilize Diurnal AST enough. I know it can be fun to run around as a nigh unkillable damage sponge, but you can pump out some good healing and really help with cross healing with the regens, and you can still escape some pretty silly situations if you can sprint + lightspeed heal yourself.

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I agree! I actually quite like Diurnal AB, which is a HOT plus an instant heal. The instant heal only has a 190 potency, but I've used that small buffer to save a few teammates who were nearly done in by DOTs. You could also spam Diurnal AB on a target repeatedly get the 190 heal each time--with the constant HOT it's maybe half the potency of Noct spam. (I know I'm going to regret writing that).

I'm not saying you want to kite opponents around like you would with Noct, but it's an option if you're retreating and lightspeed is on CD.

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Originally Posted by Aiden_Volkov

I did double fell clave first 5k and inmediatly after 7.4k and Astro go down

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Yeah WAR atm is direct counter for all three healers due double FC burst, AST is still most annoying but WHM and SCH just melts in mere seconds. Get all buffs/debuffs up and do FC+brutal+FC and its GG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVrx...ature=youtu.be

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Originally Posted by Redfame

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVrx...ature=youtu.be

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Typical seal rock level of play.