[dev1028][dev1136][dev1132] The Fair Compromise on Power levels and Strongholds: Level Sync and Access Restrictions
Its clear the community is divided on power levelling and strongholds. SE only had to examine player reactions to FF11 on this issue without leaving their offices.
Powerlevelling:
Powerlevelling should not be necessary given mob redistribution as well as link and chain systems (regardless of being level 1 or level 50).
The compromise therefore should be to restrict the ability of someone to power level a party. Instead, Level Sync should be implemented in this game to allow high and low levels to properly interact as intended. I would suggest allowing people to Level Cap themselves in dungeons so that people with high jobs can enjoy the lower level content.
To compare this to an offline rpg, there must be grinding to learn abilities one by one, to become accustomed to them, and to research and understand strategy. Levelling up should be an accomplishment. How many of you would get bored of an offline RPG and put it down if you started at level 99 with all abilities unlocked.
Strongholds:
The xp given here is beyond ridiculous. Either xp should be nerfed or mobs should not give XP. Drawing on FF11 again, dynamis did not give xp. It should be the same here.
Current “End Game” content is not part of the Grind. Therefore there is no reason for it to give xp at all. Mobs could either give no XP or they could give some kind of other points on death that can be used to exchange for things (think like Einherjar in FF11, the mobs you killed gave cruor to spend on items at an npc).
Another suggestion is to limit access to strongholds. Either put them on a timer (hours? Days?) or to require faction credits for example.
Those are my thoughts.
Can we use this thread for constructive feedback and calm our emotions a bit please. The Devs clearly need some constructive input from both sides of the fence.
[dev1028][dev1136][dev1132] The Fair Compromise on PL & Strongholds: Sync & Restricti
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10-11-2011, 04:40 AMAltanas[dev1028][dev1136][dev1132] The Fair Compromise on PL & Strongholds: Sync & Restricti
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10-11-2011, 04:50 AMEstellios
Your stronghold ideas are terrible. Strongholds and dungeons serve the dual purpose of being extremely fun and fast ways of getting XP while also being endgame content depending on how you progress through it. XPing in strongholds may be a grind but it definitely does not feel like one. Putting them on timers limits accessibility and shut people out of groups because they can't make X day at Y time. FF11's endgame content not giving XP was idiotic, especially given the fact that you lost XP when you died.
I would much prefer level sync to the current powerleveling system but for now it's still enjoyable and the end result is helping out new/returning players. -
10-11-2011, 04:55 AMHaibel
The Grind is not the Levels. The grind is gear. GET IT IN YOUR HEAD.
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10-11-2011, 04:57 AMVahzl
There are already enough threads with this very same feedback in various forms.
The current state is that a few people don't like power levelling, the rest of us do.
/sunglasses - Deal with it -
10-11-2011, 04:58 AMneoreiquoted, now i will type 10 characters!Quote:
Originally Posted by Haibel
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10-11-2011, 04:59 AMEekikiThis. A thousand times this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Haibel
Since it's a popular thing to do around here, let's take another game as an example: Guild Wars (even though it isn't a true MMO, it has MMO elements). The max level in Guild Wars is 20. It's always been 20. You can get there in a day. Yet that game was and still is popular, even after several years. -
10-11-2011, 05:05 AMAmyRae
Maybe something that would be more palatable would be to make would-be powerlevelers quest for the ability to powerlevel (i.e. a quested item grants the ability to attack claimed mobs). That way it would be an earned ability and less likely to be knocked because of that.
Endgamers just want to feel special, after all. :p -
10-11-2011, 05:05 AMRaikkiThis is it exactly. There seem to be a lot of people clinging to the idea that leveling is a meaningful part of the game when it just isn't. In a perfect world we'd have a meatier leveling system AND a good endgame gear situation but they had limited resources and had to decide what to work on and the leveling system lost out. We can cry about it but I think most people agree with the decision they made under those circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Haibel
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10-11-2011, 05:07 AMDNO
I disagree. those ideas are supid.
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10-11-2011, 05:28 AMSephrick
It's exhausting reading these threads any more. How many more ways can we prove this power level thing to be a non issue?
I'm just going to bullet point it. This is getting ridiculous.
- 1 through 50 is just meant to be an introductory to the way a class is played. If a person is confident they know how to play the class, they have the option of being powerleveled by friends so that they may partake in everything else the game has to offer.
- Powereleveling will not become the norm. This style of powerleveling was possible prior to 1.19. It didn't become the norm then, it certainly won't now. In my personal experience, and that of many others who have actually been playing the game, the traditional leveling experience of actively playing the game still is the preferred and widely more common method of netting exp.
- 1-50 is the tip of the iceberg in XIV. To be an effective player, one still must level at least one craft spend time spiritbonding for materia in order to get the desired type and tier of materia and rinse and repeat until the desired amount of materia is on the gear in addition to any breaks in the process. And if they choose to buy their materia and gear, then they have to grind for the Gil for equipment, materia and catalysts plus to pay a crafter for their services. 1-50 is not only not end game, it's not even the end of the current leveling required to be an effective character.
- The beauty of the current system is choice. Take myself for example: I choose to level traditionally. I choose to get a group of level 25-30 classes together for Toto-Rak. And I choose to save my leves for leveling crafts. But I respect the fact that someone might not enjoy the same types of challenges I do. Therefore I support others' right to choose for themselves whether or not 1-50 brings with it a sense of achievement. Because for many people, it does not. What does is getting the right gear to take down Ifrit with friends.
- A painfully long and slow grind will not attract new players. MMOs have been around for a while now. So the first thought in a non-FF-fanatic's mind is "why should I ditch my powerful character in another game to have to grind to a cap all over again?" I think XIV's current character progression system is a good response to that. 1-50 is now just long enough to serve as a tutorial for those unsure of how a class should function. Otherwise, it allows folks to get to cap at a reasonable pace in order to start gear hunting.
- The trouble with removing exp from raids, strongholds and other event-related sources is it begins to restrict in a game that is all about player option. Toto-Rak is a great exp options from 25 to ~35. Darkhold also is a great way to break the monotony and not have to compete with other parties 45-50. But why should Toto-Rak give exp and not Darkhold? Just because Darkhold is "end game" for the current hard cap on levels? Same stands for strongholds. If we take exp from the strongholds should we too then take it from the encampments like the Ixali one in Coerthas? If not, why? And if we take it from the encampments, why not take it from all clusters of mobs that allow a decent rate of exp gain? Where's the line? -
10-11-2011, 05:50 AMVaerNot sure when the last time you played XI was, but the strongholds now and Abyssea in XI are completely similar in exp gain just using different terminology to describe and rack up bonuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altanas
My only problem with power leveling is that playing the game without "exploiting" gives a drastically lower amount. If normal play gave similar, even 25% of the amount of exp from power leveling, I wouldn't care. There needs to be a balance between the two somewhere. Normal play is on one end right now and power leveling is on the extreme other.
Different kind of game. The PvE economy and gameplay systems in general mostly revolve around aesthetics and experiencing the world/story/lore. Anyone could and can still get capped weapons, armor and buy skills with no effort from NPCs. The more expensive things like mini-pets and special skinned rare weapons don't give you any advantage except for aesthetic purposes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eekiki
Now the economy revolves around the title grind that give very little benefit in the game (there are some skills linked to title progress but the difference is negligible when you compare what the title(s) provide just playing the game normally and increasing it as intended vs. a fully capped one from grinding) and a system that unlocks rewards for GW2. (These unlocked rewards/titles for GW2 will also give no real advantage according to ANet.)
If what I'm reading in this thread is correct, FFXIV on the other hand is about grinding materia to get the best gear evah and show off. If leveling isn't a grind, why does it take so long to get to cap just playing how it was intended? Let's just up the EXP across the board.
It's actually quite painful as it is now in the lower levels unless you beg for a PL or somehow pull a party out of your hat when people are being PLed and new players that get PLed hit 30 in a couple of hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephrick
A good compromise is to accelerate L1-25 and leave everything as is. That way, new players can join a GC and don't feel like they're playing a single player game with NPCs with weird icons next to their names that seemingly have incredible AI and sometimes chat if all the planets align. -
10-11-2011, 05:52 AMAlhanelem
The community isn't divided on power leveling, they're simply against ridiculously fast and easy powerelveling, the ease of which has never been seen in any game before it. Powerleveling in FFXI doesn't go this fast.