What do you think about branching support-based healer from CNJ?

Many people hate branching job because balancing problem but conjurer has different issue. Now, CNJ attack and healing class actions are on a par with AST with addition Cure III and no instant Regen only (Don't count AST unique support mechanic because it look like 2.0 job action more than class action). That can make them into another support-based healer like SCH and AST by adding some party support mechanic to new job action instead of raw healing and self buff actions like WHM such as GEO's Luopan mechanic from FFXI (It's similar to MCH turret with limited duration) and make them become Geomancer who have related lore with CNJ too. Do you think this is good idea?

I don't mind but its stepping on AST's toes pretty hard. I'd prefer they create a pure support class and balance it properly so it isn't a must have.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

I don't mind but its stepping on AST's toes pretty hard. I'd prefer they create a pure support class and balance it properly so it isn't a must have.

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Which they don't seem inclined to do. Its not suprising. Getting such fine balancing with just the set roles is hard enough. With a support class its very hard to have worthwhile while not making it must have.

I hate support roles in any game so no. I think they want to pretend classes never existed tbh.

I don't think CNJ should branch out to yet ANOTHER healer. I feel the whole point of branching classes like SMN and SCH is that the same role/weapontype gives multiple roles they can do. I don't think "healer" and "another flavor of healer" are different enough. Honestly, I'd like to see most classes branch out into one DPS, and one tank/healer. So, perhaps something like Elementalist as a DPS? Potentially a DPS that inflicts debuffs alongside its attacks as a main gimmick.

personally IF they were to add another job to CNJ I would rather it be an attacker DPS

CNJ is one of those classes that cannot branch outside of something healer-related, due to more than half its skills (10/18) being healing or support spells and skills, unlike ACN which had only 4 out of 18 skills being heals or support abilities. It will thus be under-powered or over-powered as a DPS or tank; it's almost impossible to balance to make it function as part of another trinity. Basically, any DPS or tank that can self-heal as it can with a CNJ's toolkit should not even be thought about. You can say to lock Cleric Stance so they can't heal, but that renders FIVE abilities utterly useless then. ASTs were already feeling the lockout with 5 semi-useless abilities at the beginning of 3.0 (Nocturnal Sect, Celestial Opposition, Collective Unconscious, Stella, Lightspeed); having 5 utterly useless abilities will either push the new job completely out of the raid scene OR make it introduce overly powered job abilities to make up for that uselessness.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

personally IF they were to add another job to CNJ I would rather it be an attacker DPS

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Geomancer? :p
Take throwing rocks to the next level!

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Originally Posted by Kemonologist

Now, CNJ attack and healing class actions are on a par with AST with addition Cure III and no instant Regen only (Don't count AST unique support mechanic because it look like 2.0 job action more than class action).

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Before I even argue the merits of one class over the other, could you explain what you mean by this? Are you insinuating that Cure III and instant Regen are White Mage's only unique mechanics, or lamenting that these mechanics have leaked to Astrologian? Unclear sentence is unclear.

If you mean the former, then you'd be wrong because Aspected Benefic is an instant cast spell which grants Regen in Diurnal Sect. If you mean the latter, then you'd still be wrong because Cure III is not a spell that Astrologian has an equivalent for.

I think the classes are different enough to be distinct, so Conjurer needs no further branching paths. It would be very difficult to make Conjurer into anything besides a healer because a large number of a conjurer's skills involve curing or protecting in some form. In fact, 10 of our 18 skills are either curatives or protection spells. Compare and contrast that to Arcanist whose base class only has 2 curative skills (Physick and Resurrection) and one defensive skill (Eye for an Eye).

The reason it works for Arcanist is because they change the summons to become additional healers. There's not much you can change on a conjurer which wouldn't seem out of place.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Geomancer? :p
Take throwing rocks to the next level!

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if they did this I would take it!

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

personally IF they were to add another job to CNJ I would rather it be an attacker DPS

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RDM!!! (Red Mage )

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

personally IF they were to add another job to CNJ I would rather it be an attacker DPS

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SMN and SCH are designed to split them in two different roles. both have a healing spell, a revive and some mitigation skills. without that a downsynched scholar wouldn't work. and with the fairy they were able to add more skills to make them different than only the 5 jobskills after lvl 30.

a CNJ on the other hand has cure, cure 2, cure 3, medica, medica 2, can revive, can dispell, stoneskin, protect, has cleric stance... the CNJ is that much a healer, you can't make him to a DPS.

How about a job that can summon the Elementals to fight with him?

personally i think they should add another caster but not with cnj as a base. We only have 2 casters and we have 3 healers already

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Originally Posted by Tint

SMN and SCH are designed to split them in two different roles. both have a healing spell, a revive and some mitigation skills. without that a downsynched scholar wouldn't work. and with the fairy they were able to add more skills to make them different than only the 5 jobskills after lvl 30.

a CNJ on the other hand has cure, cure 2, cure 3, medica, medica 2, can revive, can dispell, stoneskin, protect, has cleric stance... the CNJ is that much a healer, you can't make him to a DPS.

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excuse me but yes you could, have you seen their DPS spells? just because the base class is a healer does not mean a job from that couldnt be a heavy DPS. if the devs wanted to they could make it work, you are silly to think otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Soralis

personally i think they should add another caster but not with cnj as a base. We only have 2 casters and we have 3 healers already

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how about something along the lines of THM with CNJ as the sub class for the stone and have ACN as the 3rd cross class set. it could work though I'm not sure what they would do with it. make it so that it could use Conjurer's DPS spells or something along those lines

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

excuse me but yes you could, have you seen their DPS spells? just because the base class is a healer does not mean a job from that couldnt be a heavy DPS. if the devs wanted to they could make it work, you are silly to think otherwise.

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i never said he is not able to make damage.

i said he still has all the healing spells. and even if you switch his mainstat to int he still can switch back to mind with cleric stance. okay, his heals will be 20% weaker. but that's still a lot. and as a dps he need some better skills for mana regenration. makes probably an endless cure 2 spam.

such a dps cnj is just broken and will probably replace a real healer. i mean: healer in this game spend more time dpsing than healing, right? with this class you get more dps for lesser healing, but who cares about healing, right?

They already said they didn't like how SCH/SMN turned out, and it's easy to see why because it's difficult to tweak one without affecting the other. Based on their strategy in HW I think they're done with having branching classes, despite it being a cool concept.

However... if you ask me, the most logical branch for CNJ would be GEO as a DPS. They added one tank/healer/ranged phys DPS in HW and NIN was added recently too, so it's about time for a new ranged magic DPS.

Also, before adding any new healers the development team needs to rethink their vision for new healing classes in this game because AST was kind of a lackluster addition honestly. Take away the card mechanics and they're a gimped WHM.

Personally, I always felt like the AST should have been a branch of the CNJ rather than an extra job.