Will PvP queue's be fixed?

So my friend was waiting in queue for 40 minutes, gave up, un-queue'd then re-queue'd. He waited 40 minutes again with no pop. He was complaining in TS about it...I got a play-by-play. lol. At that point I decided to PvP, but instead of asking him to un-queue again, I just queued by myself. I thought just maybe it needed more people. 15 minutes later, it popped for me. However he didn't get a pop.

(of course he took his frustration out on me)

How come I got in quicker? This is NOT the first time I got in before him, even if I queued after. And there are times were he will get in before me...

I've googled this issue, and it seems it's old. Will it ever be fixed? It seems odd that it happens in the first place.

Are you in the same grand company?

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Are you in the same grand company?

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Yeah both in flames.

Is this Wolves Den or Frontlines?
Wolves Den takes your ranking into account to ensure somewhat even teams.

If it was Wolves' Den, your pvp rank will determine how quickly you get into a game, due to the matchmaking system. If it was Seal Rock, make sure he was queued as 'E' language only, as the wrong language can screw your queue up.

I've noticed some trouble when I queue up as one job, immediately switch to another, and then go about my business. I've sat in queue so long I forgot I had even done it (90+ minutes) and then when I switched back to Warrior and exited to re-enter, I got a match in 15 minutes (which is about my average as Maelstrom).

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Originally Posted by Dotsusama

I've noticed some trouble when I queue up as one job, immediately switch to another, and then go about my business. I've sat in queue so long I forgot I had even done it (90+ minutes) and then when I switched back to Warrior and exited to re-enter, I got a match in 15 minutes (which is about my average as Maelstrom).

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That honestly sounds like you're getting stuck in a dead lobby, then you unqueue, change classes, and coincidentally don't get stuck that time around. Unless you notice reliably getting stuck in queues like that for any particular class, I wouldn't put too much stock into what you seem to notice with it.

In case you don't know, having less-popular PvP languages checked in your language preferences for the DF raises your chance of getting stuck in the dead lobbies of those languages. It's smart to only stick with the main language of your data center, as that can help avoid dead lobby issues.

It was for frontlines. I don't know if he has more than 'E' checked. I'll sneak a look at his search info. Thanks for the replies.

The queue for PvP is different from other instances. Some people consider it as a bug while others say it's working as intended. In any case you will usually get stuck in dead queues; how it occurs it's beyond me.

The "trick" we use in my PvP LS is simple. Re-queue every 10min of waiting since it seems you can get into PvP depending on your assigned instance NOT queued time. Check on the in-progress too and if someone tells you they got into a match then re-queue again hoping to get into the instance assuming someone drops it which occurs quite often.

Pre-mades vs solo ques can cause the DF to have an aneurysm. It depends on the circumstances, but a lot of small and stupid things can cause the system to get mucked up.

I don't know how accurate any of this information is, but, from what I've been hearing around the watering hole, It seems that the way the DF is set up and continually "locking" the same groups together has a lot to do with how spots get filled in Seize. I dunno though, so take this with a grain of salt.

Supposedly, the DF takes the first 24 people from the same GC that qued and puts them together, but, if there is a pre-made in the mix, it can have trouble filling the blanks and can cause a lot of problems, especially if the pre-made is not a complete pre-made. For example, say you have a Pre-made of 7 in que. DF is searching for one person to fill the eighth spot. You guys qued as a pair, and it suddenly has an extra person it can't fit in, so DF gets all gummed up because it doesn't know what to do. You guys break up your pre-made pair of two, and DF slots the first person who qued between the two of you in the free spot. The other person gets the shaft.

In your case, the 15 minute delay was probably because you missed the match. Notice that a seize match is roughly 15-20 minutes (depending on how fast one team is winning, of course)? That's not a coincidence. Basically, the DF tried to find a spot for both of you in the same party, but couldn't. Keep in mind that even if there had been an open space in Alliance A and C, the DF could not split you up to fill both spots. It runs on the PvE set up, so it can't compute that kind of thinking. So, when it tried and failed to slot you both, it gave up and went ahead with the match by filling the spots with solo quers (even if they qued after you). Now, most of us have noticed that, in seize, when we repeatedly que immediately after each match we get slotted with the same familiar faces (which can be good or very bad). That's partly because of the limited number of PvP'ers available at any given time of the day. This same feature (or side-effect of the way DF is forming groups) would mean that you'd have to wait for the match to end before DF could slot you into a spot. Whichever one of you qued first, gets the first free spot. The other person gets left behind until DF can find another group, or someone quits the group you're in.

How likely this is to happen depends on how many people are available to play PvP on your server. If you only have 30 people from your GC trying to que at that particular time of day, than six of them will always be in limbo, waiting for the match to end or a spot opens up. The more people que, the more people have a longer wait to get in. The only time that wait would shorten is if the number of people trying to que from your GC reaches 88. Then the DF can make two full groups instead of one with spare change... only, there's still a problem. The DF still has to match you against opponents. So, if 88 people are qued from Adders and, but Mael and Flames only have 24 each, one full group of Adders get's left in the dust waiting for ques from an entirely different GC.

So basically queue and un-queue spam until you get a match?

I wish they just took whoever queue'd first and put them in the next match. Give them a number? IDK. I just don't understand why it doesn't work that way in the first place, or what the point to the queue is if you don't actually "queue" in a line and get put into instances that never fill.

I had yesterday a funny thing, I was 30 min in queue than I canceled it and joined new in the df, after 1 h I canceled it again and joned new, than I god an instant invite for a running match...

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Originally Posted by Redfame

30 min in queue... canceled it...after 1h I canceled it ... than I god an instant invite for a running match

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So it seems that once a match starts, it will start queuing for another match. However, once you are in that queue, you become ineligible for "in progress". Such that, when it needs to fill people in to the match that just started and people missed the queue, you either have to be beyond the 24 waiting for the next match or have just queued when it needs you.

For example:
1) Game A starts.
2) Players A, B, and C queue.
3) Player A is #24 and is placed in waiting for game B - their GC has 24/24 waiting.
3) Game A has 3 people who missed the queue and needs 3 people in progress.
4) Players B and C are #25 and #26 in queue and get the pop.
5) Player D queues and gets an instant pop.
6) Game A ends.
6) Everyone requeues and Game B fills up its list and pops.

This may be wrong but based on my experiences, this is how it seems to do it. I really think it tries to form a game by opening 3 "lists" of 24 people, rather than having a game form when 24+ of each GC are queued.

Edit: Based on this, I've successfully cheesed the queue twice for instant pops after an initial 72 minute queue. SE FIX THIS.

I find the fastest way to get queues is to queue solo with other people on a voice chat. When someone gets a queue, they will call out if there are any open spots. At like 1:10 on the countdown, the people without a queue pop will re-queue, and 90% of the time they will get the in progress.

It would be so much better if the system was just first in first out though. They really need to fix whatever they have going on right now as it really sucks.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

It would be so much better if the system was just first in first out though. They really need to fix whatever they have going on right now as it really sucks.

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This is true. Their system promotes people to abandon to find a game rather than just wait in queue.

This also plays to the reason why if you are in queue for over 30 minutes, you should just withdraw and requeue. Say it is trying to form two games, 24/24 for your GC in game #1, and 3/24 for game #2. Some people will withdraw from game #1 so any new players who queue will get into the game #1 list while the 3 people in game #2 will be stuck there waiting despite queuing first (i think it will try to move them eventually, but newer queues take priority for at least some amount of time). There is just some really funky logic going on with the queues and while it may work for PVE, it is absolutely wrong for PVP.

I don't think they realize how much queue times dissuade people from participating in PVP. The faster and more reliable the queues, the more people will play PVP. When I stop playing, or don't requeue, it is usually because I don't want to wait in queue - not because I no longer want to PVP.

I think the best fix would be to have a single list of queued players for each game mode and create a game when 24/24/24 is available. If five or ten minutes pass and 24/24/24 is not available, try to form 8/8/8. The problem is, this doesn't really work well with how the PVE queues work so it may be more complicated than it seems. Maybe separate the queues so you can't queue for PVP and PVE at the same time?

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Originally Posted by Turin

This also plays to the reason why if you are in queue for over 30 minutes, you should just withdraw and requeue.

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30 minutes? I abandon and re-que as soon as I hit the "average player wait" time lol. For Flames on my server, that's about 9 minute at the moment.

You're right to say it's more complicated. The DF really isn't built for PvP ques, and there are downsides to almost every que line solution. 24 man matches might help ease the stress, but, because of the nature of those matches and how much more intense they are, they'd dissuade more casual players from playing PvP.

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Originally Posted by Februs

30 minutes? I abandon and re-que as soon as I hit the "average player wait" time lol. For Flames on my server, that's about 9 minute at the moment.

You're right to say it's more complicated. The DF really isn't built for PvP ques, and there are downsides to almost every que line solution. 24 man matches might help ease the stress, but, because of the nature of those matches and how much more intense they are, they'd dissuade more casual players from playing PvP.

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Ours are always more than 30m wait. The more I think about it, I think a simple solution would just be to make sure "in progress" pulls the person who has been waiting the longest and that if someone withdraws from a queue, that their position is filled by the next person who has been waiting the longest. The fact that these two scenarios give priority to a newly queued person is the issue.

The main question is: SE really wanna fix pvp or giving us a decent and aqesome pvp? i guess the answer is not, for them this is only a "complement" and they don't mind if there are unbalanced classes, more or less dps/healing power, no more options to play, less wait times, etc.

The best thing as if we could crying enough loud to SE hear us and do something average, because with a great game is FF14 every mmorpg player say the pvp from it is worst than a lot of other mmorpgs verly less importants as FF14. and when PVE is finished and wanna do something different, unpredictable, dinamic, etc than kill over than over same PVE bosses, then pvp is the answer and SE don't mind fix these answer.

http://i.imgur.com/NnztJbJ.png

Are you queuing roulette or straight seize? I've noticed the few times where I've queued roulette, got a really odd, long wait timer and sat it out (or just plain forgot I queued) that it invariably sticks me into the 8 Man level 50 versions instead because some annoying person in my alliance has queued on a character under level 60. If I queue roulette now and get a bizarre estimated wait timer I just leave, requeue 30 seconds later and my queue goes back to less then 5 minutes and I've not seen the level 50 stuff since.

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Originally Posted by Alcifer

Are you queuing roulette or straight seize? I've noticed the few times where I've queued roulette, got a really odd, long wait timer and sat it out (or just plain forgot I queued) that it invariably sticks me into the 8 Man level 50 versions instead because some annoying person in my alliance has queued on a character under level 60. If I queue roulette now and get a bizarre estimated wait timer I just leave, requeue 30 seconds later and my queue goes back to less then 5 minutes and I've not seen the level 50 stuff since.

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We queue for Seal Rock (Seize). Not the roulette. Neither of us do the roulette.

I don't understand how we are supposed to level up our pvp ranks right now. Im in maelstrom on primal and every queue I get for seal rock is a minimum of 30 minutes but usually around 45 mins to 1 hour. Its not possible to grind pvp right now with queues the way they are. 1 match every hour or 2 is going to take forever. And I play on my ps4 so theres other games I'd like to play so I cant just leave it running all day while im in queue. The only way I can see ranking up even being feasible is if I get heavensward for pc as well and be in queue on that while I play other games on the ps4. That would probably still take months to hit rank 50.

Wish I'd gotten in on win trading when that was popular. Seems like the only real way to grind pvp.

I'm considering canceling my sub. Paying for an unplayable game isn't exactly my thing. I'll give SE a few more patches to fix it but then I'm out. At least it was mentioned in the open letter that they would consider removing/loosen up GC restrictions; there is hope.

I don't mind having shitty matches, but when you wait 2 hours just to get a shitty match, the frustration levels escalate exponentially the longer the queues are. I could just join adders and have tolerable queues, but then I have to wait 5-10 matches on average to actually get a good game.

Imagine if we had similar queue times in PvE content... The shitstorm would never end.

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

Imagine if we had similar queue times in PvE content... The shitstorm would never end.

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The que times really are unacceptable in this game, and I don't think SE realizes the staying power of PvP.

In every game that has a PvP component, PvP usually becomes the content people stay for. The thing is, the Main Story of the game doesn't change, and (in a MMO like FFXIV) the dungeons don't change either. They're the same, and more times than not the outcome is guaranteed. You already know what's gonna happen because you've done it all before. The only thing that changes is the players. PvP, on the other hand changes with each match. The game mode is the same (in FFXIV, anyway. Other games usually have variety, but w/e) but the outcome and events that occur within the game mode are constantly changing. Nothing is guaranteed. There's more risk and reward. It keeps the content "fresh" much longer than PvE content which can get stale within a couple of runs. SE doesn't seem to get this, and has been ignoring PvP for FAR too long.

It's great that they are so committed to putting out new PvE content on a regular basis, but if they understood the value of a good PvP environment, they would, and should, have put a lot more thought into PvP before letting it descend into this mess.

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Originally Posted by Februs

The que times really are unacceptable in this game, and I don't think SE realizes the staying power of PvP.

In every game that has a PvP component, PvP usually becomes the content people stay for ...

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Yes, the reason I still play after reaching max lvl, story and done what I deem reasonable endgame grind, is PvP. Everything else feels static to me.

SE prioritize endless endgame grinds in order to keep the playerbase going. If only they put as much effort into making PvP last... The potential playerbase they lose out on here can be massive.

I have to give them creds for all the PvE content they put out though. However, in my case, I'm usually content in just completing them one time. Unless there is some sort of reasonable grind involved.