Gladiator at low to mid level is lacking a balance post patch 1.19

Ok so I recently decided to start a new character with a friend who wanted to play with me. I chose to play Gladiator. I am currently up to level 30. I have most other classes to 20 and mrd and pug up to 30 as well. And even with a good mix of cross-classable skills, there seems to be something wrong. After the patch 1.19, things are more challenging, and I dont mind that. However, the fact is that Gladiator has been nerfed all around the board. I dont think there is much wrong with any other class except for possibly archer, compared to the challenge mobs now present (obviously I'm not including PL). The proper ballance I expect to see is low damage but high survivability for a tank type class. But instead it seems more like low damage and low survivability. Here are a few things Ive picked out: Really low MPs (lack of cures on self), Shield skills dont seem very effective, Most WSs (even cross classed ones) are doing as much as my regular attacks if not buffed (reg attack does about 25 damage with a decent sword). Only a few choice WSs do any significant damage like Red lotus 2, does about 75-95 damage. Maybe after the patch Im doing something wrong (I dont think I am), but feel free to give me any pointers.

The long and the short of it is that if the damage Gladiator can do at low levels is greatly reduced, then there should be enough defensive/curative abilities to ballance that out. Keep in mind Im not expecting to go out and fight super high level mobs and kick thier ass. Im talking about setting a guild leve to mob levels at an even match and me seriously having to worry about my survival. Compare that to other classes that might not have as good defense but can deal out better damage or have plenty of MPs etc , etc. So either Gladiators should have more MPs, or they should have shield skills that really work, or they need more damage output, or better yet some combination of the last three. Am I the only one having these problems with a lower level Gladiator? My other Gladiator at level 50 doesnt seem to suffer this kind of problem (although high or low level shiled skills do seem to be worthless).

I do think it needs to be examined. My GLA at the moment is level 10 and my damage (with a level appropriate weapon) is simply atrocious.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

I do think it needs to be examined. My GLA at the moment is level 10 and my damage (with a level appropriate weapon) is simply atrocious.

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you're a tank.. not a melee/dps..

sigh, but they receive same damage that dps

I agree with you to a certain extent Forbin, but as I said if thats the case then there needs to be a ballance. Doing the same leve I mentioned above with a Pug of the same level, and the leve set at the same difficulty, my Pugilist has absolutely no problem. Now my pugilist isnt set up with as much defensive/curative abilities as my Gladiator, but he has enough damage potential to destroy the mobs completely with out me worrying if Im gonna even make it through the fight. So while he isnt that great defensively, he uses "the best defense is good offense" type of approach. This is what I am talking about. And for solo stuff I simply cant turn my Glad into a good damage dealer through abilities..... none seem to be very effective. And yet I have low MPs, and broken shield skills....... so cant really make a great tank either apparently. As I said, I expect to have low damage but high survivability and use a "slow and steady wins the race" type of apprach, but this approach just gets me killed or damn near it.

I also think that Archer and Gladiator should be polar opposites. Archer = Glass Cannon and Gladiator = Adamantium Pelit Gun.

Hmm, I would have liked to get more feedback on this. Well here is more info. I tried the same type of leve at even match on Conjurer and Maruader as was used for Gladiator and Pugilist (for the record, all were find the 2 pairs of devlit types). At even match none of them gave me any real trouble aside from Gladiator, and in fact Marauder was pretty awesome. Am I to think that Glad is a non-soloable, Glass pelit gun, that can do some additional damage and maybe do some quasi decent tanking? Because at this point, its looking like I might want to abandon Gladiator and instead make a Marauder tank with cross-classed abilities, massive damage and good tanking skills, and load him up with +parry materia and some +MP matera? WTF is that about?

Gladiator = Glass Pelit Gun vs. Marauder = Adamantium Cannon...... this is kind of unfair to people like me that really like the playstyle/image of Gladiator.

I'm trying to level GLA but I'm having a hard time of it. Soloing is horrendously slower in comparison to other jobs (CON/THM can just AoE nuke links, and the other DD's kill quicker).

I figured I'd be more useful in a party, so I tried it out. But I wasn't doing near enough damage or healing enough to be able to hold hate whatsoever. Provoke was not near enough to keep a monster on me. The only other enmity generating abilities available to me are Phalanx/Haymaker type moves. If the mob isn't attacking me, they're useless. In the end, I was a weak sword with a cure, chasing after enemies while the part members cleaned them up.

I'm open to suggestions.

My GLA is 18 and I duo with my girlfriend, and before I got some cross-class skills it was really difficult to hold hate at all, but once I got some it is much easier. I can hold 2-3 same level or +3/+6 leve mobs at the same time and have minor issues.

I use:
Light Stab/Phalanx/Spinstroke/Circle Slash/Provoke/Taunt
Aegis Boon/Rampart/Second Wind/Cure

I usually start with a Provoke or Taunt if I'm anticipating links or if it's a set of 2 or 3 mobs.
Provoke on 1, Taunt on 1, light stab on main target (the one I am going to kill first) (or 3rd if there's 3) then I use second wind when my hp drops to get full benefit, then circle slash to hit all of them.

Then I just keep using circle slash. In between things I spam Phalanx because it's harder to tell when you block. I just recently added Spinstroke, where I figure I will use if I lose hate on one and it peels. Sprinkle in some cures (on either of us) and aegis boon/rampart when I'm taking more damage than I would like. Second Wind again if it comes off cooldown. I judge which target I have the least hate on and use Provoke when it's up or Taunt. (Taunt has longer cooldown)

I can hold hate most of the time doing this, even with my girlfriend as a conjurer spamming nukes. (We coordinate of course) Having Pro/Shell/Stoneskin and Shock Spikes helps.

I don't know about lower levels, but my r50 gla is wrecking things like never before, post-patch.

Well holding hate wasnt really my point with the OP. But anything that can help others is always welcome. I also use accomplice a lot too as well as featherfoot and defender.

My point really had to do more with the lack of survivability to damage dealt ratio while soloing even matched enemies. And how seemingly mage classes and most DDs have zero problem. When I have backup, I dont have much of a problem surviving or keeping hate, doesnt change the fact that most of my WSs hit for the same damage as my auto-attack though.....

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Originally Posted by Cycloptichorn

I don't know about lower levels, but my r50 gla is wrecking things like never before, post-patch.

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Yea my level 50 Gladiator isnt having that problem either, only a problem with the shield skills seeming less useful than mauraders parry + the parry materia. Though I'd love to hear how or if your doing well with your defensive skills (thats your defensive skills, not the mages cures). Thats my only high level problem, because damage and hate arent problems for me at least.

Now at low levels I seem to be having problems with WSs giving crap damage and having sh*t for survival skills, even using a lot of cross classable skills

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

I do think it needs to be examined. My GLA at the moment is level 10 and my damage (with a level appropriate weapon) is simply atrocious.

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A. You're a tank

B. You're only level 10

C. You may be wearing gear but you are not wearing gear that enhances attack and str, higher levels you will find more gear with actual attack and str in large quantities

D. As far as surviveability goes try stacking HP and VIT and obtain higher leves for greater deffensive skills. once again, extra str and vit will be available at higher levels.

Level 50 GLA seem to be doing fine. They are able to intake massive damage, keep hate, have over 600-700MP and do decent damage. They do not do insane damage as they are tanks. They may have a WS or two that do more than any other they have for some extra hate.

Lower levels are ment to be difficult. Just as they were in FF11 or any other game. Once you hit 40+ along with multiple mixed abilities from other classes and you are wearing appropriate gear with enhanced stats along with slotted materia, then you will notice a difference.

They added materia for a reason. Slotting materia to your gear is like purchasing ALL HQ items at your level range for best damage output and mitigation . If you want to see greater results, resort to materia. It's what SE intended. It's the same thing as an HQ item in FF11 but a different concept.

You people need to understand that your characters are not ment to be gods and or tear through things at low leves as if you were a level 50 with maxed gear... I don't understand your logic behind that. -_-

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Originally Posted by Amsai

Yea my level 50 Gladiator isnt having that problem either, only a problem with the shield skills seeming less useful than mauraders parry + the parry materia. Though I'd love to hear how or if your doing well with your defensive skills (thats your defensive skills, not the mages cures). Thats my only high level problem, because damage and hate arent problems for me at least.

Now at low levels I seem to be having problems with WSs giving crap damage and having sh*t for survival skills, even using a lot of cross classable skills

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Increased duration of Sentinel and Aegis Boon II have been great. I don't think blocking works as well as it did before, so a lot of my previous block-> Phalanx strategies aren't working very well. But I've noticed that I seem to gain a lot more TP than I did before; Invigorate-Light Slash-Heavy Slash-Heavy Stab are now getting me somewhere around 1800 TP and it's a short auto-attack from that to Riot Blade, I'm using Riot Blade far more often than ever before - and hitting for great damage with it.

Rampart II seems to cancel more damage than it did before, tho I haven't actually tested it.

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Originally Posted by Spuffin

A. You're a tank

B. You're only level 10

C. You may be wearing gear but you are not wearing gear that enhances attack and str, higher levels you will find more gear with actual attack and str in large quantities

D. As far as surviveability goes try stacking HP and VIT and obtain higher leves for greater deffensive skills.

Level 50 GLA seem to be doing fine. They are able to intake massive damage, keep hate, have over 600-700MP.

Lower levels are ment to be difficult. Just as they were in FF11 or any other game. Once you hit 40+ along with multiple mixed abilities from other classes and you are wearing appropriate gear with enhanced stats along with slotted materia, then you will notice a difference.

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I pretty much agree with this as well, but I dont think that this should mean that lower level Gladiators should be useless while all other classes at the same level basically murder everything. Just needs some balancing to either make damage a bit more respectable and having better survivability. Trust me, there is a problem, because something that is a joke to every other level 30 class (aside from maybe archer) is ususally a serious problem for my lvl 30 Glad.

By the way, has anyone tried using Cadence to increase hate? The skill was changed to that in the last patch, but I dunno how effective it is...

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Originally Posted by Cycloptichorn

Increased duration of Sentinel and Aegis Boon II have been great. I don't think blocking works as well as it did before, so a lot of my previous block-> Phalanx strategies aren't working very well. But I've noticed that I seem to gain a lot more TP than I did before; Invigorate-Light Slash-Heavy Slash-Heavy Stab are now getting me somewhere around 1800 TP and it's a short auto-attack from that to Riot Blade, I'm using Riot Blade far more often than ever before - and hitting for great damage with it.


Rampart II seems to cancel more damage than it did before, tho I haven't actually tested it.

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What shield type are you using? One with higher block rate or one with higher block? Also I have seen + parry materia, and im not sure if I should even consider using it, but what I havent seen are any +block or +block rate materia :c

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Originally Posted by Amsai

What shield type are you using? One with higher block rate or one with higher block? Also I have seen + parry materia, and im not sure if I should even consider using it, but what I havent seen are any +block or +block rate materia :c

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Vintage Kite shield. Dunno the stats under the new system.

Hmmm wierd, I havent had this issue at all. In fact its quite the opposite. I've gone from 36-40 solo doing, Leve, GCleve's and can usually take 3-4 mobs my level and kill them pretty steadily. I often don't have to rest much either. A few things I noticed however..

Gear matters, I swapped out almost all my gear to lvl appropriate and non dated gear and my Armor value sky rocketed. Also keeping buffs up at all times makes things so much easier. Shell, Protect, Shock Spikes, Rampart, Sentinel, Defender ect.

Upper level glad is fine. It's the 1-25 crew that is currently having issues.

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Originally Posted by Kopuno

Hmmm wierd, I havent had this issue at all. In fact its quite the opposite. I've gone from 36-40 solo doing, Leve, GCleve's and can usually take 3-4 mobs my level and kill them pretty steadily. I often don't have to rest much either. A few things I noticed however..

Gear matters, I swapped out almost all my gear to lvl appropriate and non dated gear and my Armor value sky rocketed. Also keeping buffs up at all times makes things so much easier. Shell, Protect, Shock Spikes, Rampart, Sentinel, Defender ect.

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Hmm, interseting Im using all dated gear, cause I already had it, but it is class/level appropriate. I would switch over, but wasnt planning on wasting materia slots or the expense on low level gear so didnt think it mattered. Is new recipe gear really that much better? Also as I said before most of my WSs seem to be doing as much as my regular attacks, aside from red lotus 2 which of course eats the little MPs I have..... As far as abilities, I use all that you suggested except for Sentinel, but Im still a few levels away from that.

@Clyco, at low levels the shields block and block rate are crap so I know thats part of the problem, but also there are no low level kite shields :c

Maybe I could upgarade my gear, but its kind of odd that I didnt have to do that to faceroll with other classes on even match enemies.

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@Clyco, at low levels the shields block and block rate are crap so I know thats part of the problem, but also there are no low level kite shields :c

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I'm r50 using an r49-50 shield. But I still think the block rate is lower than it used to be overall when I controlled it manually.

Gladiators do seem to do really low damage now from what I've found, at least pre-50 (I'm at 46 now). Not "oh you're a tank not a DPS that's normal for that class type" damage (like they did before), more like "wow you're a tank but seriously?" type of damage.

They do just enough to get by if they're fighting thing below their level, but if you go even level and in cases just one level above then it's bad. I've got a Cobalt Katzbalger/non-dated Bladed Lantern Shield and still don't do a whole lot. I think the main thing is that their Weapon Skills (still) don't have much of an identity. Red Lotus/Spinstroke/Howling Vortex/Luminous Spire/Onion Cut still seem like the exact same thing with different flashes, and Rage of Halone is still terrible. Riot Blade is their one big hitter, but that Pacifies you for no reason afterwards. XD

But, I wanted to finish leveling my Glad to 50 (I was 39 pre-patch but I switched to Pugilist) so I'm making due. I've found that their DPS gets boosted a lot by using the Pugilist counters (Jarring Strike/Haymaker). Because enemies actually miss now (and often) it works surprisingly well. In addition, Jarring Strike has enmity increases and a Stun, so it's win-win for Mr. Glad.