PvP input/interrupt/order

I have a question about the order in which inputs or abilities are processed in PvP. I'm not new to PvP, it's always been my focus in the MMO's I've played, but FF PvP has me a bit confused on some outcomes. At the best of times, it feels like the games combat system isn't really quick enough for real PvP and you shrug it off. At the worst of times, it feels like I'm PvP'ing on dial up. So I'm going to lay out a couple scenarios and let me know if the outcome I expect is possible, or if I should just do something else all together.

I play a BLM in PvP, with a tank in the party I have 10,680 HP. Enough to survive a melee LB with a tiny bit of breathing room.

Scenario 1 -
Stealth ninja sneak attacks, stuns, LB's
I purify (remove stun), mana wall (20% max HP damage absorbed)
The LB cast finishes, I take 9600 damage and die or am close to death

If I am trusting the cast bar that I see for their Raw Destruction, then I cast mana wall in time and should have taken much less damage.

Scenario 2 -
<any melee class does a closer with or without stun>, then LB's
I cast Night Wing
Target goes to sleep well before Raw Destruction's cast is finished, but I still take full damage.

Scenario 2 is extra frustrating because I also try using Night Wing to save others from eating a melee LB but it simply seems impossible to interrupt it.... But...

Scenario 3 -
I'm a ninja, I sneak attack, stun, and LB <any class with a stun>
<any class that has a stun> stuns me, my cast ends, they take no damage

It feels to me as though a stun is the only status effect that the game processes quick enough to stop a melee LB cast.

General range/LoS scenario -
Melee casts LB on me, I run though them so I'm behind them, I Aetherial Manipulate myself 25y away, I Shukuchi 20y away, I repelling shot 10y away, none of that matters. I end up taking the LB damage.

This feels very WoW like to me, where the rule is ultra basic "You were in range when I hit the button, doesn't matter where you are 2 seconds from now, it is going to hit you". However, that same rule doesn't apply to regular abilities. I acknowledge that there is some flexibility if a target is just ever so slightly out of range of my cast by the time the cast finishes, but other times if they run far enough away or break LoS before the cast finishes, my cast is interrupted. Turning around while stationary and casting on a target within range breaks my cast a lot of the time. Shouldn't the same rule apply to LB?

I have a feeling that with gear, time, and a new level sync cap in the future, that melee LB will be less of a danger than it is now - meaning that anyone that doesn't have sta acc's is within 1 shot range - but for now, I'm wondering what I should be doing about it because my inputs and abilities seem incapable of doing anything to that Raw Destruction cast bar.

Latency can go both ways in this scenario. On your screen where yo ubarely got out of their LoS but their cast still went through, their skill sees you not moving until afterthefact. And vice versa.

Yeah, I get that latency has that effect, it's part of what makes it feel like the combat system just isn't fast enough or precise enough for PvP. That kind of delay is acceptable for PvE, but in other MMO's with a PvP element, the players who are able to get a quick counter to an otherwise devastating setup are the ones that excel. I'm getting the feeling that what I do doesn't matter because the game doesn't allow for any real clever counter measures to some setups. I'm remembering back to the WoW days when RMP was the setup of all setups in arena, and the good teams could spell steal PoM before the mage ran their nuke. As boring as RMP was, seeing someone with a stupidly well timed counter get the upper hand was what set RMP team 1 apart from RMP team 2. FF doesn't seem precise enough to ever allow anything like that.

If melee use stun before lb, there is no way interrupt it. The best bet is if some of your pt member can stun that melee before cast run off, but melee can avoid even that with fetter ward. I think we are not gonna get new level sync cap before 4.0.

I think what you're experiencing is latency.

Unfortunately there's almost no way around the latency thing in PvP especially with the melee limit break. The cast time is too fast to interrupt / cleanse stun + mana shield in time to save your butt.

The only way I manage to survive and counter the melee LB as Ninja is with some VIT accessories / some VIT attributes / PvP VIT attributes

Ive killed someone mid raw destruction animation, it was probably just slow on my end, but it was weird. and scary

Unfortunately it's normal here in PVP. I could not even tell you how many times I was in the AOE LB right at the start, but was like 5 inches (yalms) away by the time it actually goes off, and yet I still take full damage.

i still remember trying to get brd push offs on slaughter....latency sucks

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Originally Posted by Kataz

As boring as RMP was, seeing someone with a stupidly well timed counter get the upper hand was what set RMP team 1 apart from RMP team 2. FF doesn't seem precise enough to ever allow anything like that.

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Never really liked arenas in any MMO but this is the reason why i like it even less in here, there is really no point to even try any serious ladder based pvp because latency/position update delay can and will screw you over eventually. FL's are fine due their casual nature where you can pop some heavy metal in headphones and go ham against nubs :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUtJ90L6TAk \m/

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Originally Posted by Gooner_iBluAirJGR

The only way I manage to survive and counter the melee LB as Ninja is with some VIT accessories / some VIT attributes / PvP VIT attributes

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That does seem to be all you can do, but SE has done a pretty good job of making VIT accessories pretty unappealing to non-tanks. For BLM at least, the Law 180 tank earrings seem like a legit choice, the 190 tank Gordian neck has parry and crit, hard to justify but I'm giving it a go. Also using the 180 tank PvP wrist, crit and skill speed, very hard to justify, but none of the tank rings have any caster appealing stats on them.

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Originally Posted by Kataz

That does seem to be all you can do, but SE has done a pretty good job of making VIT accessories pretty unappealing to non-tanks. For BLM at least, the Law 180 tank earrings seem like a legit choice, the 190 tank Gordian neck has parry and crit, hard to justify but I'm giving it a go. Also using the 180 tank PvP wrist, crit and skill speed, very hard to justify, but none of the tank rings have any caster appealing stats on them.

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Since everything is sync'd to 150 anyway, you could go for a crafted accessory with VIT on it and then meld caster stats. If you're lucky you can get them without skill speed or parry on them, but it still means ending up with accuracy occasionally. Case in point.

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Originally Posted by Dotsusama

Since everything is sync'd to 150 anyway, you could go for a crafted accessory with VIT on it and then meld caster stats. If you're lucky you can get them without skill speed or parry on them, but it still means ending up with accuracy occasionally. Case in point.

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Only that would be wasting gil, because materia is disabled in pvp

do people seriously not read the popup at the start of every match in FL?

also you don't understand the ilvl sync fully, as some i180 items dont hit the i150 stat caps on parts of thier stats so going higher and/or getting an item with morale can have its benefits in some cases

Latency screws me over in about every match some way or another. Minor or major.

-I'm suddenly turned away from my opponent even though I locked on them.
-Fetter Ward constantly screws me over. I use it. 5 secs later I'm being stunned.
-Other PCs popping up everywhere. Fighting someone face to face. Suddenly they are miles away.
-Skills hangs. I use them, 2 secs later they chose to obey.
-When chasing someone, even though I sprint/fists of wind, my attacks never goes off (again locked on target). If there is too much movement chances are I'm screwed.

Most of the time it's ok though. It's really only in huge skirmishes like 72 slaughter. Rarely in PvE. My internet connection and computer should be more than good enough to handle this game. But I guess everyone experience some sort of latency in 72 PvP.

Where abouts do you live though, the servers are based in canada

I live in Norway. Yes, I know where the server is.

you will be golden next month then once the servers move to EU

It'll be interesting at the very least. Can't imagine it getting worse. If the Fetter Ward thing gets "fixed" I'm content. It happened twice last match and both times I died a horrible zerg death very easily avoidable with Fetter Ward.

And peeps keeps "stealing" my kills lol. I like to think with less latency I may get more finishing blows.

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

-When chasing someone, even though I sprint/fists of wind, my attacks never goes off (again locked on target). If there is too much movement chances are I'm screwed.

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Are you front of that moving target or behind? if behind then you wont land any attack even if it "looks" like you are behind them, due positional update/latency you need to actually be far ahead of moving target if you want to hit them(in spot where they WILL be and not where they ARE at that moment). Now if theres really heavy problems with latency even this might not work at all, just keep that sprint on CD 24/7 and hope for the best.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

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Fists of wind/sprint/weapon throw are supposed to be gap closers for monks (and shoulder tackle too). Usually when chasing someone the attack animation starts but then stops halfway through. A secure way of landing attacks is to weapon throw target while having fists of wind active. Or sprint + inv. Both of those relies on cooldowns. Which means a could chase and kill 1 with all those cooldowns but being somewhat handicaped if a new skirmish suddenly pops. I guess that is the nature of the game.

When fighting in skirmishes I always lock on target and just move straight ahead to always be moving towards target. This seems to work good, but if target starts to moving too much in 1 direction the same "half-animation" thing happens. In 1vs1 this can be devastating.

The game should be a bit more lenient on direction and distance.

I've seen videos on youtube by this war who have no problem landing attacks. Facing away.... Distance.... no problem.

Trying to avoid a melee LB with Night Wing? and not working?... I ... DAMN... Understand you..

It happens to me all the time. First time I used it in PvP I was like "Hah! I'm so pro I had a super quick reaction and sleeped the guy lbing me with a PvP action, wow!......" And watched how the guy was slept, yet I ate the LB and died... It was like "OUCH, PWNED.."

I was still having that 'reflex' of using night wing as emergency when being melee LB for a while and always same result.

If it is latency... Then I'm screwed in PVP, totally, because right now chaos data center has european people connecting to Canada ( High latency for them and me).... But it's going to become European PROBABLY located in Frankfurt ( Like always ) so it's going to be like... Everyone not having anymore latency problems except me ( Bad things of living in an island close to Africa, atlantic ocean side. )

In that sense, I fear the latency already.