How about Riposte?

So I was looking at Parry, thinking how worthless it is currently, and wondered: what about Riposte?

Riposte was in Everquest (and possibly other MMOs, I dunno) along with Block and Parry. Different implementations, but same general idea. Riposte is the passive defensive ability that randomly mitigates an incoming attack and strikes back in same motion. Since SE has no problem incorporating Block and Parry, why not Riposte too?

This could be linked to the Parry stat. Or paladin's block. Or both.

Riposte could trigger on some % or all of Parry/Block.

The attack component could have varying potency: from an auto-attack on down to 20 or 50 potency like a DoT tick.

There is already precedent in Vengeance or Sword Oath for similar "strike back" or "additional strike" mechanics.

If linked to Paladin's block, Riposte could give them a bit of a DPS increase - more so than other classes. Also would thematically tie to the defensive focus of Paladin. Defense as offense basically.

I'll say it before 100 dark knights enter the thread to say it : Riposte is already in the game.

It's a Dark Knight ability. It triggers off Parry. When they parry, it activates the ability to use an Off-GCD attack (and in the case of FFXIV's riposte, it both does damage and applies a damage down debuff).

Sadly it has a 30 second cooldown, and even with it existing Dark Knights still dont benefit enough from Parry per point to make parry stacking worth it.

That said, the idea is sound. Some kind of mechanic across all tanks that noticeably increases their DPS when they parry/block would go -some- way to fixing the terrible parry stat, but even then the returns you get from 1 point of parry is terrible.

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

It's a Dark Knight ability. It triggers off Parry. When they parry, it activates the ability to use an Off-GCD attack (and in the case of FFXIV's riposte, it both does damage and applies a damage down debuff).

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This Riposte idea looks more like WAR's Vengeance than DRK's Reprisal. If DRK's Reprisal is Riposte, PLD's Shield Swipe is too and even more since it can be done every time you block.

I think this stat would be a good idea as a replacement to parry.

Yeah I think WoW had something similar in the concept of the Shield Spike (though this was fairly low damage). It would certainly be better as an automated attack rather than a button press.

Heck if Sword Oath can attack 50 potency attacks to your autos, why can't shield oath do the same but on block/parry.

THe current Reprisal/Shield Swipe mechanics dont do enough to warrant the factoring of increased mitigation but this is more due to the hugely lower returns on +% you get per parry point, and the meh potency of swipe. Definitely cleaning up their implementations could go a long way to making defensive stats viable.

Ok, the Reprisal/Shield Swipe similarity is a valid point. Requiring a GCD or long cooldown makes it not as good as a passive though.

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Originally Posted by RhazeCain

Ok, the Reprisal/Shield Swipe similarity is a valid point. Requiring a GCD or long cooldown makes it not as good as a passive though.

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Yeah I definitely prefer your concept of it being an automatic damage return rather than a triggered button, though if there's no cooldown on the button you press then I guess it's a similar thing.

The issue with Reprisal right now is the cooldown - even massively stacking parry you're not going to see too much of an increase in its overall dps contribution because it's probably available to be pressed frequently enough already. Shield Swipe has the issue that it's ON gcd, which means it replaces another move. Right now its only 210 potency which makes it a DPS LOSS to press in all situations outside of needing to use it to lower TP consumption in very long fights.

Boosting Shield Swipe's potency and reducing the cooldown of Reprisal will both help a lot.

Counterattack has clasically been a Monk thing in final fantasy. That said riposte is a fencing term and so maybe would fit with Red Mage. Granted neither of thesetake that many physical hits if they aren't tanks, and if it was a tank trait or cooldown, then it'd need to have a short duration and/or success rate.

New Skill: Riposte:

When you parry you also riposte. Riposte deals damage per point.


Vitality now increases Parry Chance at half rate as it did before.
(1000 Vitality = 500 Parry)

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

New Skill: Riposte. When you parry you also riposte. Riposte deals damage per point.
Vitality now increases Parry Chance at half rate as it did before.
(1000 Vitality = 500 Parry)

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Pretty sure it was Dex that modified parry (and block), never Vitality? Also, that would mean you'd be hitting for some 700 damage every parry with any sort of actual 'parry build'. This would likely be quite overpowered with high-tier gear, especially when it is carried over during leveling (e.g. FCoB gear from 50-53).

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Pretty sure it was Dex that modified parry (and block), never Vitality? Also, that would mean you'd be hitting for some 700 damage every parry with any sort of actual 'parry build'. This would likely be quite overpowered with high-tier gear, especially when it is carried over during leveling (e.g. FCoB gear from 50-53).

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An RNG attack can't really be relied upon.

Also, critical hits add 50% damage to attacks. So critical rate, the stat pretty much makes you hit for 700-1000 more. So, if this is indeed "overpowered" then so is critical rate, infact its more overpowered because it takes 1 stat and not two stats.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

An RNG attack can't really be relied upon.

Also, critical hits add 50% damage to attacks. So critical rate, the stat pretty much makes you hit for 700-1000 more. So, if this is indeed "overpowered" then so is critical rate, infact its more overpowered because it takes 1 stat and not two stats.

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I'm not arguing with the concept, only saying that your formula would need some revision for appropriate scaling. One could have as much as ~550 parry stat back in first Coil, which would cause Parry to hit for more than Rage of Halone. During the leveling process the value of the stat would sink back down to much lesser significance because it doesn't scale with our quickly increasing primary stats, and then as secondary stats begin to overtake primary again, and parry more gearable, it would again eclipse the value of Determination and Critical Strike against only quick-attacking physical enemies - a particular gearing annoyance XIV has thus far tended to avoid.

On the whole parry/riposite would still be lackluster; the issue is the massive difference between when it's crap and when it's overpowered. RNG isn't even the beginning of its issues. Magic can't be parried, and the pace of riposite is the pace of incoming attacks x parry chance. That said I still don't what you're talking about in your comparison between Critical Strike and Riposte, which you introduced as a "skill", not a "stat" (hence my thinking that the damage was based on the adjacently referenced Parry... if that is incorrect, I apologize).

(Personally I'd just like to see Parry/Block usable against magic attacks to a variably lesser extent, where DRK can perhaps even (conditionally - e.g. under DM/DD) charge its blade with parried/absorbed magic damage, and PLD could, say... block magic damage while in Shield Oath and parry it while in Sword. The Parry stat would likely then just shift to Reflex or whatever name works for both Block and Parry (the effects being split and/or Oath-dependent for PLD, for whom the stat would otherwise be overpowered).

Back on topic:
Any attempt to make the parry stat relevant has to also be somewhat paired at least with parry even being usable. As it stands, half of our Alex encounters focus on damage that cannot even be parried. One alternative would be to have a corresponding anti-magic defensive stat, but then we would have only one role in the game condemned to piece together sets through horizontal progression to be swapped out with each fight for best results. A better solution would probably be to get rid of the parry stat entirely, in favor of something that works on both physical and magic damage, or revise parry's limitations (esp. vs. magic).

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

I'll say it before 100 dark knights enter the thread to say it : Riposte is already in the game.

It's a Dark Knight ability. It triggers off Parry. When they parry, it activates the ability to use an Off-GCD attack (and in the case of FFXIV's riposte, it both does damage and applies a damage down debuff).

Sadly it has a 30 second cooldown, and even with it existing Dark Knights still dont benefit enough from Parry per point to make parry stacking worth it.

That said, the idea is sound. Some kind of mechanic across all tanks that noticeably increases their DPS when they parry/block would go -some- way to fixing the terrible parry stat, but even then the returns you get from 1 point of parry is terrible.

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The ability we're referring to is automatic. Always.

You attack me, I block/parry/dodge I automatically hit you back for a percentage of weapon damage.

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

Yeah I think WoW had something similar in the concept of the Shield Spike (though this was fairly low damage). It would certainly be better as an automated attack rather than a button press.

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Shield spikes were a damage reflect on block.

Hunter had an attack in vanilla that lit up when you parried(Counterattack, Survival tree). Paladin protection tree in vanilla had Holy Shield, adding 4 charges of damage dealt to attacker when blocking. Paladin also used to have Retribution Aura, which was a mild thorns effect that damaged attackers when you were hit. Druids had a similar, more powerful at first then later longer duration/smaller damage spell, Thorns. Combat rogues had Riposte, that lit up after parry.


And that was just vanilla talents. Warriors also used to have an ability called Retaliation that counterattacked *all* incoming attacks for 12 seconds.

They've since toned down a lot of these things, or removed them entirely. But they were fun while they lasted. Rogues whining and crying they killed themselves to thorns damage...

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

This Riposte idea looks more like WAR's Vengeance than DRK's Reprisal.

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Its also similiar to tanks new PvP skill called Push Back http://xivdb.com/?skill/1597/Push-Back (that shit is OP as hell against retards).