I know there are a lot of angry posts about how there's a lack of endgame and lockouts etc. Here's just a quick suggestion that can help out a bit and it shouldn't require that much more effort to do.
Release or use one of the primals as an equivalent gear farm as the raids, somewhere between A1-3S. Still make A4S the highest gear upgrade, but just give us another primal as another option for gearing up that is free of lockouts, somewhat difficult and doesn't require a static to do.
Small change to endgame to help.
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09-18-2015, 03:52 PMTaeiSmall change to endgame to help.
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09-18-2015, 03:56 PMGreyfrost
Are you talking about Ravana Extreme? Sounds a lot like Ravana Extreme to me, minus the gears, since RavEx only drops weapon, and it's the third best in-game, damage-wise.
Somewhat difficult with randoms, and doesn't require a static to clear. -
09-18-2015, 04:02 PMTaei
Please read the 2nd paragraph.
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09-18-2015, 04:12 PMzcrash970
If it's going to drop equal gear to that of savage, it should be as hard as savage or be released the patch after the current top raid is released.
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09-18-2015, 04:26 PMElHeggunte
How would this help exactly? If it had no lockouts, but had gear equivalent or close to raids, no one would do the raids. All you would be doing is trading complaints about the lockout for complaints about droprates or being bored because people geared up too fast using your idea. Making the gear mid-ranged is fine I guess, but we already have plenty of that and people already fuss up and down about it.
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09-18-2015, 04:28 PMMentheusDreyar^ ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by zcrash970
Not to mention primals are meant to be accessible to everyone but hardly anyone can seem to handle their current difficulty with any form of ease. Every "farm" i join is a bunch of headless chickens who have no clue, for bismarck and ravana.
If its any harder than current EX's (which it has to be, and approaching savage difficulty) you'll want to be running it with some kind of a static anyway to have any kind of chance of even doing it, which is kinda of against your idea of it.
All this will do is make it easier for raider's to get gear to complete the raids. It will accomplish pretty much nothing...
If you want raid equivalent gear, raid for it! Don't make us raider's efforts a waste because you're to lazy to attempt the current endgame. -
09-18-2015, 04:34 PMShaneDawn
You don't need the best gear if you don't do raids... even going going in Esoterics is an overkill anywhere else except Savage Alex atm. What would be the point of this? I beat Bis Ex at around i149 and Rav Ex at i159, just for example.
A vast minority of the playerbase is doing Alex Savage, and only a very small fragment of those people are good enough to clear A4S atm. You would just be screwing over 99% of the raiders by giving "free equivalent loot" elsewhere.
I think this is overall just a bad idea. Want more gear progression? Go do Savage Alex like the rest of us. -
09-18-2015, 04:35 PMItseotle
Wait a second. Release a primal that's as hard as savage that drops gear equal to savage? Isn't that what A1s-A4s already are; over exaggerated primal fights. Calling Alexander a "raid" is laughable. Four completely segregated boss fights in static circular arena style combat areas that you just press a button and port to. .. sounds just like a trial.
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09-18-2015, 04:59 PMAomine1992
Lol you have other options *cough eso gear* you don't have to do savage a lot of ppl aren't even interested in Alex savage let alone are they even doing it...because others are raiding doesn't mean you have too and with the primals now I rather SE try again before releasing hard content with more tight dps checks
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09-18-2015, 05:06 PMNatashioReasons I don't bother with this game's end game. They're just mini games to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Itseotle
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09-18-2015, 05:08 PMSylveAs opposed to what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Itseotle
We could use the 'traditional' Raiding style.
(Room full of trash)-(Corridor full of trash)-(Room full of trash)-(Corridor full of trash)-(Room full of trash)-(Corridor full of trash)-(Boss)
With the trash mobs respawning after an hour or so and forcing you to run all the way back in from the very beginning of the run if you wipe.
It was always so much fun to spend an hour+ just clearing trash so we could attempt a boss. And then reclearing that trash every single time we ended for the day and came back in or wiped a few times.
So uh, i like the way the Raids are set up here. Barely any trash mobs, if any at all, just gather your group and start pounding away on the boss. -
09-18-2015, 05:40 PMzcrash970Shhhhhh...You're gonna ruin their nostalgiaQuote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
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09-18-2015, 06:05 PMYukikoFirst of: he didnt say "free gear", but you are using nice polemic!Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaneDawn
And ohh, wait: You are getting BiS from hardest raid uhm... yea, for what?
You dont need it if you already beaten the HARDEST raid, so i guess your argument fails there!
Edit:
What we have is a lack of mid game content and the learning curve (mostly gearlock) is way too high between content. From Ravana to AS1 its a BIG jump... there isnt anything inbetween! -
09-18-2015, 06:17 PMElHeggunteWe haven't had our mid-ranged content patch yet. If it's anything like the trend we had in ARR, 3.1 will be our first "mid-ranged" patch with the inclusion of the 24-man Void Ark. If it's balanced anything like how the CT Trio was, it'll be harder than dungeons, but easier than the highest raids.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukiko
In fact, if we're going to continue to get a Normal and Savage mode of each new 8-man raid, I would expect the following 24-man to be the same or maybe slightly more difficult than the 8-man Normal mode that preceded it. So I expect Void Ark will be just a step above Alexander Normal in terms of difficulty and drop i190-195 equipment.
Of course it'll still wind up being "too easy" since most players are already going to be way ahead of the gear curve, but I digress. -
09-18-2015, 06:37 PMShaneDawn
@Yukiko.
No one was clearing A3S with the initial i190 gear we had wheb Alex Savage was released. The weekly gear was a necessity to even clear A4S for now... And that's only with the very best teams in the game. So yes, I would argue that you *need* a set amount of the best gear in the game to clear all the floors. Not the from the laat turn necessarily, but that's just semantics.
I don't disagree that we need more midcore content. Asking it the rewards to be on-par with the hardest content, however, is absurd. We'll be getting Void Ark next patch, with the drops probably being i200. They could also add a new extreme/trial at some point with i205 weps (much like Shiva Ex in 2,4) but I doubt it's going to happen. Would love a Singularity Reactor EX tho! -
09-18-2015, 07:14 PMYukikoBecause crafters could not craft while locked behind books you have to farm a lot blue and red scripts...Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaneDawn
Because weekly cap of 450, you know, eso stuff? o_O
Because not all were willing to drop paladin from their groups
and many more reasons!
Try to understand and not just read:
So, you beat AS1 and get a ring, you already BEATEN AS1 and dont need the RING at all...
What about AS4, you will get a Weapon, but then you already have BEATEN it and you dont need that weapon at all...
Undergearing was ment to use the GEAR with that you have beaten it the first time and dont make it EASIER because most of the eliteists are using challenge as argument to have said BiS gear locked behind HARDEST content...
But well, should have guessed such an answer... -
09-18-2015, 07:27 PMElHeggunteThis is kind of a short-sighted view. That ring you got from AS1 obviously wasn't necessary to clear AS1, so it's "useless" so far as subsequent AS1 clears are concerned besides making them slightly easier. However, the larger purpose of that ring is to give you a stepping stone towards the progressively more difficult AS2, 3, and 4. On that same token, while the AS4 weapon is "useless" for Alex Savage progression since you have to clear AS4 to get it in the first place, it's still going to be a stepping stone for future, steadily more difficult content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukiko
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09-18-2015, 07:31 PMYukikoYou dont play many games, do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElHeggunte
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09-18-2015, 07:49 PMShaneDawnWow, so now you pull the big bad elitists card? Why are you acting so hostile anyways. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukiko
True, a lot of people think, myself included, that the best gear should be gated behind the hardest content. We can argue all we want how we could also reward people with gimmicks like titles and skins instead, but see how well Savage Second Coils turned out. Vast majority of the people who did Coils did not even try them. Why is that? Because they didn't feel worth the effort most likely. People were doing Coils for the story, the gear and the awesome fights. Now that we have the Story Mode as its own instance, what would we have left if we made the gear accessible to everyone as well? The fights? Skill+Effort->Rewards should be the logical implication always. What's the problem with that line of thinking?
On the larger scale of things, what is not having the very best gear away from you, considering that we vastly overgear 99% of the content as is? Right now, the gear drops from Savage raids work as an incentive to do the raids, but also help every team to an extent with the weekly drops, possibly making raid teams outside the 0,1% of the player base also progress.
To be honest, it sounds to me like if you have this strong of a view of "all thee nasty elitisties taking my loot and fun", then this is not the right game for you. This is how a Realm Reborn gear progression has been working for quite some time. To get the very best of the very best, you need to do the hardest content. There will however be a new line of Relic weapons, which will probably involve another mindless grind, that actually gives better weapons than their raid equivalents. Anyone can eventually get gear comparable to that as well. If you're a fan of "everything for everyone!" in terms of gear, however, try a game like Guild Wars 2.
As a side-note, sounding less condescending and bitter would probably help getting healthier discussions about the topic rather than flaming on someone who does not agree with you and questioning their intelligence. -
09-18-2015, 08:11 PMMentheusDreyarYou don't play many progression games, do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukiko
See how stupid comments work against you too? :p
Anyway, ElHeggunte is spot on, the rewards are to help you progress in the content after (hence PROGRESSION content), where you get the idea we complete content to get rewards to complete the content we can clear without it is beyond me :confused: I'd question your intelligence if i were you as many others will do it for you, as you are making zero sense... -
09-18-2015, 08:12 PMTint
what was the topic...?
oh, yes, ex-primals
back in 2.1 (was it 2.1?) garuda ex, titan ex and ifrit ex had ilvl 90 loot, wich was on par with the raidgear and the weekly quest with ilvl 90 weapon, wich was on par with the relic and only 5 ilvl lower than the raid weapon.
i think that was a very good system, we had coil, ct, ultima hm and 3 ex primals to gear up. lots of content. and what do we have now? :O -
09-18-2015, 08:28 PMElHeggunteIf your words held meaning other than how I interpreted them, you shall have to speak more plainly the next. I cannot divine the hidden contents of another man's mind, though I believe my words fell near to their mark, like as not. I have also partook in the enjoyment of other games of entertainment, to follow your inquiry, however, that has naught to do with the topic at hand nor does any answer I could have given detract from my past statements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukiko
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09-18-2015, 11:31 PMCanadane
I think it'd be sweet to have some Primal Savage mode, dropping some armour pieces.
If not only for the actual progression in ilvl, but the vanity as well.