Seeing as how we need tanks to be able to contribute to DPS, what are your comments on my questions below?
- Since the discussions are about STR, assuming Determination and Critical isn't possible, is it advisable to go Skill Speed?
- {Fracture} being a DoT, can it help to push my PLD's dps even if by a little? I haven't read anyone mention {Fracture}.
- I am Sun Miqo'te, where DEX is my primary stat. Will this affect my damage since STR is low?
- Since I no longer raid (since T13 was a thing, and I never finished it), should I even be bothered with the above questions since I only like to spam Dungeons and FATEs?
I have a small question regarding damage.
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09-18-2015, 10:52 AMJim_BerryI have a small question regarding damage.
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09-18-2015, 03:24 PMThunda_Cat_SMASH
I don't believe PLD benefits much from skill speed, no. That being said, it's far from the worst stat to be had.
Fracture used to be a dps increase in 50 content, I believe as well. As of 60, I believe it's fallen out of favor entirely.
Nope.
They aren't particularly important if you aren't raiding progression content, but there's no such thing as a bad question. -
09-18-2015, 03:58 PMNutz
- Skillspeed is not especially desirable, but it won't hurt. If it's possible to perfectly swap skill speed for either determination or crit it would be better. It's still better than surplus accuracy.
- Fracture is primarily a TP sink with most classes. It doesn't do a lot of damage but costs a decent amount of TP without the MRD trait..
- STR will directly affect your damage, but the difference is extremely negligible, especially with the runaway stat values at 60 (the stat gaps that you start with do not grow, so by 60 the lowest STR compared to the highest is less than a 1% difference)
- If not raiding more or less do as you want. Unless you go very far astray from conventional wisdom you will be fine. -
09-18-2015, 04:06 PMKhalithar1. Not sure, but I think you'd get more from determination because of how the pld rotation works. 2 combos (halone + RA or RAx2) while Goring ticks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_Berry
2. Fracture is almost always a dps loss, there are only two instances I've found where it's not. I pop it on the Waukkeon on Neverreap right before it pops it's air shield (dots still tick while it's evasion shield is up) and when I'm OTing A1 right before I pick up 0.5 I use Goring and Fracture and then run to my add.
3. It really won't make much of a difference. I'm a Duskwight, but as long as you have the gear you should be fine.
4. Yes. If you're doing your expert roulette alone, you'll notice a difference. You only need around 14-15k hp as a pld in Fractal/Neverreap, from there I prefer using the strength gear for the extra threat, I've even started tanking in DPS stance just to help speed it up more but my pld is nearly full ilevel 200 left side and all my other pieces 190 except for a single 180 ring. I hated the whole slaying accessory thing personally, I really am not fond of it, but after trying it out for myself I'm sold on the idea. You don't need 19k+ hp for expert dungeons. -
09-18-2015, 04:41 PMArdorGrey
To expand a little more on the race thing, the stat gaps are about 6 points between the absolute best and worst sets. It's roughly comparable to like 1 piece of materia. You could argue that was worth considering at 50, but at 60 the stats have gotten so massive you won't notice it, especially as a sun miquote, who still has good str and decent vit.
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09-18-2015, 08:03 PMSapphidia
I'll add my rambling thoughts to the questions, although a lot of folks have answered already:
Skill Speed as a Stat:
Skill Speed is the worst of the 3 dps stats for PLD, but it still -helps- to a degree. It'll boost your Goring Blade and Circle of Scorn damage, and will slightly increase your overall single target DPS (though be aware that paladins can suffer from running out of TP in long fights, and lots of skillspeed only exaggerates that). There's some breakpoints around 2.31 GCD which allow paladins to gain a DPS increase from changing their rotation slightly but this is virtually impossible to hit in current gear.
In general, skill speed is the least desirable secondary for PLDs but isnt useless. Remember secondary stats have very very little impact on your performance compared to Primary stats (about a 1:10 ratio of Strength : Det/SkS in terms of effectiveness, roughly) so don't pass up a higher level item with more strength just because it seems to have worse secondaries.
Fracture as a Cross Class:
Fracture does 220 potency of damage provided it ticks its full duration. Below level 60, this is a DPS increase over just spamming the Rage of Halone combo (which averages 203 potency across its 3 GCDs). However, once you get to 60 and get the Royal Authority Combo, Fracture becomes almost completely useless. Royal Authority combo has a 230 potency average, and Goring Blade combo has even higher. Therefore, Fracture is almost always a DPS loss to use. People will try and convince you that it's a DPS increase to use as the last move before Fight or Flight falls off, or as a filler so you don't clip Goring Blade's DoT... but it isnt. The math shows that in a straight fight where you're just tunnelling DPS onto a target, Fracture is always a DPS loss, and also a huge TP loss.
The one situation where Fracture can be a DPS increase is when you have to leave a target (as Khalithar says, like in Alex 1 where you're DPSing the main boss for a while and then have to go pick up the second). However it's ONLY a dps increase in this situation if you have to leave the target 1 gcd after you finish a combo. Eg, if you finish a Royal Authority, and have 1 second before you need to move, a Fracture would be better than doing a Fast Blade. But if you've already done a fast blade and need to move, doing a Riotblade would be better. Also, all ticks of Fracture have to do damage to make it worth ticking, so it doesnt work to throw it on the Alex Oppressors before they leap away as they go invulnerable. Also, if you are able to return to DPSing before your combo times out, a Fast Blade would have been better (eg, Fast Blade Oppressor 1, turn and run to Oppressor 0.5 and do a Riot -> Goring before it times out, would be higher overall DPS than Fracture on 1 and starting fresh with fast blade on the second).
All in all, the situations where Fracture result in a DPS increase are so horrendously small that I recommend not taking it - you'll be too inclined to press it -thinking- you'll get a DPS increase when in 95% of situations you'll end up doing less DPS AND nerfing your already starved TP. I now actually take Protect as my fifth cross class so I can speed up buffing before a pull, help buff ressed people to save healer mana in awkward situations, and keep myself buffed when soloing or working in small groups without a healer - though this is just as niche as taking Fracture really, so you might just want to keep Fracture on your bars for doing downsynched 50 content.
Racial Stats:
Yes, your DPS will be lower as a Sun Miqote compared to say a Highlander Hyur... but by such a tiny margin that noone cares. By the time you're 60 you're getting items with nearly 100 strength on them so 2-3 points of missing base strength wont make a noticeable difference. If you're absolutely trying to minmax to the nth degree then sure, but I've never encountered a player in FFXIV who'll berate someone for their choice of race being suboptimal (especially as it means they'll be optimal when class swapping to a different class). Just rejoice in having a few extra points of Piety and being able to do 2% more Flashes than someone else!
Just play what you like! MMOs are all about enjoying being your character, and if having a character you enjoy makes you more dedicated to the game then that's better than 3 points of strength.
Raiding vs Casual Content:
Technically, the requirements on your performance in Dungeons and FATEs are much less than at the cutting edge of the difficult raids, but it never hurts to try and minmax within reason. Remember, as a tank your job is to lead your party in 4mans, and to be able to keep up with the other players in your group. Playing optimally is always fun as long as you arent sacrificing some other form of enjoyment.
The most important thing in 4mans is to hold aggro, control mobs, go at a pace suitable for the party's gear level, and not die. However, if you can do all these and also comfortably find ways to minmax your DPS and make a run go quicker, why not! It'll make you a better player in general and make a run go quicker as long as you arent putting yourself in danger. Everyone appreciates a smooth, fast run, and if you can spend a few minutes in sword oath helping a boss die faster without risk of dying or losing threat then why wouldn't you?
When you join a group with other players, you're kind of entering an unspoken contract to do your best to give them the best chance of success. It's why it's okay to get annoyed at a bard who might be just half afk or only spamming heavy shot, or a healer that stands still and only casts a heal here and there rather than attempting to DPS - sure, you'll still complete the dungeon, and speed isnt all that important, but it creates this tension between group members where there's a sense of unfairness. Why should person X be rewarded by the game with loot/commendations when they're not trying at all, when I myself am putting in as much effort as I can.
Do your best (within reason) and learn the ins and outs of a class and it'll be appreciated by any player you play with. It's different to soloing. When you solo you can do whatever you want, but as soon as you join a group in an MMO there's an unspoken expectation that you'll try your best because you're letting other people down if you don't. That doesnt mean you need to play like a digital goddess or spend millions on the best equipment, but knowing how best to optimise your class within reason goes a long way to enjoyable groups. -
09-19-2015, 12:46 AMWarMir
Ok so i also have question regarding fracture.
I am newbie who Tank dungeons as a Warrior and even i don't have any problems with keeping the aggro i still use fracture on second, third mob (when they come in packs) to do some damage and keep the aggro when i fight the 1st mob.
So the question is : Is it worth to dot other mobs or its still a TP waste ? -
09-19-2015, 12:52 AMSapphidia
Fracture is a DPS increase for Warriors because they have a trait that makes it last 30 seconds and thus it's a 300 potency attack if it ticks the full duration. It's their highest potency attack outside of Fell Cleave at 54.
For Paladins and other classes that use Fracture via the Cross-Class system though, they get it at its base value of 18 second duration so it's only a 220 potency attack. Therefore it's a DPS loss to use it as their other skills are on average higher potency. -
09-19-2015, 01:25 AMWarMir
Thank You Sapphidia for clearing this out, appreciate.
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09-19-2015, 08:07 AMJim_Berry
Man, why couldn't Square-Enix just let me be a PLD with all VIT? lol...
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09-19-2015, 10:34 AMRocheKatAs was pointed out it is a dps increase but you need to get the full duration out of it. Your example is the correct way of using it. If you use it on the primary target it will probably die before the duration of the dot is up which makes it a waste.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarMir
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09-19-2015, 10:53 AMMarxamhttp://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rk-for-WarriorQuote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
This thread pretty much argues Fracture as a pro/con in 60 content. Imo after doing all content outside of AS (had to quit static due to work ; ; ) if you are OT then you should try to have it up most of the time since your focus is to help "dps" the boss meaning you should maximize your rotation in every way possible for maximum damage. It gets a little iffy as MT and the 25% dmg penalty leaves it something to be desired. I always have Fracture up for Berserk though, that much you should always do. -
09-19-2015, 10:59 AMSapphidiaThe OP was talking about Fracture as a -Paladin-, not a Warrior. Fracture's definitely a DPS increase to use at all times in both stances for a Warrior (even outside of Berserk) but for a Paladin crossclassing it at 60 it's basically a DPS loss in virtually every single scenario so isnt really worth using any more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marxam
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09-19-2015, 11:39 AMMarxam
oops my bad guess I got warrior on the brain. Warrior master tank race! lol jk. As PLD I'd say forget it. Not worth the tp and you're better off sticking to Goring Blade and CoS for your dots.
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09-19-2015, 12:00 PMDonjoYou absolutely can do that. Square Enix isn't stopping you. In fact, there is more in-game evidence supporting the notion that SE wants Tanks to go VIT than any particular alternative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_Berry
Do what makes sense to you. Wear the gear that you have the most fun wearing. As long as you perform the duties of your role, a few stat points either way will never magically prevent your party from clearing fights in the content you intend to participate in. -
09-19-2015, 12:02 PMJim_BerryYour character is cute... all homo lol...Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
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09-19-2015, 02:24 PMThunda_Cat_SMASHI've actually been wondering about that for a while, but seeing as this was a PLD thread, I didn't want to risk high jacking it. I'll go ahead and give it a once over sometime. Thanks for the link. ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Marxam