Remove GC

Yup... another one of these posts. And there needs to be a new one of these every week till it happens.

Remove GC so people aren't Forced to pty with the same people for months on end. The amount of frustration working 'together' with the same people makes people stop. Is this a healthy game design?

The lore is pointlessly. It'll always be pointlessly unless the GCs go to war and open world pvp zones happen. Remove GC.

EDIT: faster ques, better quality teams, etc etc

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Originally Posted by JubjubTubs

Yup... another one of these posts. And there needs to be a new one of these every week till it happens.

Remove GC so people aren't Forced to pty with the same people for months on end. The amount of frustration working 'together' with the same people makes people stop. Is this a healthy game design?

The lore is pointlessly. It'll always be pointlessly unless the GCs go to war and open world pvp zones happen. Remove GC.

EDIT: faster ques, better quality teams, etc etc

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Removing GC restrictions doesnt mean u get better teams. SE already said in the live letter they consider removing the GC restriction but it isnt so easy as some people think. Think about the warsteed mounts etc. all these things must be changed if u really dont want to play with the same people make a premade/change GC.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Removing GC restrictions doesnt mean u get better teams.

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Doesn't mean you get the poopers every round either. :)

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Removing GC restrictions doesnt mean u get better teams. SE already said in the live letter they consider removing the GC restriction but it isnt so easy as some people think. Think about the warsteed mounts etc. all these things must be changed if u really dont want to play with the same people make a premade/change GC.

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That's irrelevant crap to think about that they can handle easily... compared to faster ques for everyone, the ability to pty with friends of different banners (hence better teams as pve statics now get a solid go at pvp). And even making a pre-made doesn't stop pres from being dumped with the same terrible 16s others over and over and over. And its not fair for all the new/terrible/eso hunters to clumped at certain time frames. <--- this happens to every data center, every team. Wouldn't with removal of GC.

You seriously going to argue your cons are legit reasons to keep it?

The only people that can honestly argue against the removal of GC are those that have a some sort of win-trading going on with other GCs. And such does take place... is easy with a pvp dedicated LS on one of the big pvp servers of a data center to set something up. Win-trading in PvP needs to end... these terrible ques need to end... friends that can't switch to same banners for xyz reason and not aloud to fight together needs to end. All the removal of GC does... is make Frontlines better. By a lot. The fact SE hasn't... shows their incompetence with PvP (although Slaughter might be a bigger clue to that).

Lets take a quick count here...

Pros:

1.Improved que times

(This is the big one. 1st 74/24 people get in. Easy. No more of that horrid fad where people follow the misguided notion that certain GC's have a better winning average and overpopulated those GC's trying to score more exp).

2.No more locked parties

(You get a crap group, play a round, end the round, re-que, and get the same group... over and over and over until someone gets fed up and quits, opening a space.It could still happen, but it's far less likely if you're not restricting the player base).

3. Less Eso leechers in the same parties

(follows from #2. It won't go away as long as eso bonuses are distributed evenly, but it would help level the playing field if they're not all in the same GC queing at the same time).

4. More competitive matches

(follows from #1, 2, and 3. If the more "casual crowd" is being evenly distributed instead of lumped together whenever the win chasers decide to jump one sinking ship for another sinking ship than the matches will have a greater chance of being even. The only possible exception is if a group of noobs get pitted against a Pre-made... but then, Pre-mades are by nature more competative and would only encourage more people to form them, increasing the competitive aspect of the game mode. This would be even more possible because of #5.).

5. Cross GC friend parties and Pre-mades.

(it's not possible now, but it would be if GC's died. This might encourage more Pre-mades to come about, given that people would be allowed to que with their friends. This would in turn increase the competitive quality of the match because of reason #4 and 6.).

6. Increased quality of teamwork

(in 72 man matches, this is still difficult because there are 16 people you don't know, but each premade group means there are 8 people who potentially know each other and are working together as a team. The more premades in a single match and the more likely it is that you will get a match with 72 people trying to actively work as a team rather than 72 monkeys throwing poop at one another).

I'm sure I'm missing a few... but whatever.

As a solo que'er who's never had the opportunity to que in with a premade because I swear aether Storm hasn't any, I still don't want to play alongside bum ahh, Adder and Flame puggers.

Cons:

1. Um... lore?

(I guess there might be the odd person out there who actually cares about this... and SE used it as a total BS excuse, so might as well put it in the list).

2. Technical Modifications

(Stuff like mounts and PvP rewards... only, this is an easy fix. They simply remove the GC requirement to the wins for each mount (similar to ADS) and reset people's personal win counts for the new challenge. It would suck, certainly, and I'm sure people would gripe, but keep in mind this is not the fist time this has been done. When the ADS mount first came out, it was a similar situation. Some people already had 200 wins, but they did not apply retrospectively. SE did this to us once. They can do it again. Alternatively, they could simply have that challenge redeemable at your GC HQ instead of that old guy in Gridania. That way, the challenge is linked to your GC regardless of wins. If you want a different GC pony, you'd have to swap and start over...which is pretty much the way it is now.)

3. Losing your cross server GC regulars.

(This is probably one of the only objections to removing GC's that I've actually taken seriously. If GC's are removed, you could party up with friends regardless of GC affiliation; however, you would not be able to form a Pre-made party with friends you've made, or regular PvP'ers you've come to respect, who you have met only because you share a GC connection but are on different worlds. That is not to say that you would never meet these people again. You may luck out and find them in PvP, as the non-GC version of the game would still collect players from across worlds. However, there would be no guarantee that they would be on your team. You could now find yourselves enemies. This is a bigger issue for those of us on worlds in which PvP is not active or liked, because Pre-mades would be harder to come by, and the odds of any of those regular players being on your world is remote. That being said, how big of a con this is depends on how you weigh it against que times and the ability to que with friends.)

4. Possible one sided competitions.

(The final con that might be worth considering. Basically, it acknowledges the possibility that, with the removal of GC's, the regular PvP'ers and proliferation of Pre-made groups could create uneven and possibly straight up unfair matches against PUG groups. This is unknowable until it's actually seen in practice though. IF it did happen, it would be a bigger issue for smaller worlds with less dedicated PvP'ers, as they would have less players to pick from to create their own Pre-mades to level the playing field, and would still be outnumbered by the larger worlds with a more dedicated PvP base. Again, these things are impossible to know for sure until it's seen in practice, but it's a fair concern. Also, like #3., this objection is also being weighted against the dramatic increase in que times and the ability to que with friends. Take what you will from it.)

nonsense I just like seeing the same people there are other option to increase queue times for example mercenaries etc. I also like fighting for a specific team (like in other MMOs)I would hate to play with a bunch of randoms against another bunch of random without any team name. Also the DF needs a fix cause the time u wait doesnt really matter. There are several options for better queues than just removing GC restrictions like smaller modes 8vs8 8vs8vs8 etc. I don't win trade but the reason "I get always the same bad people" is kinda dumb since u can get a good team the whole time too.

Something needs to be done but removing it completely is "too" simple if you really think it would fix everything it would be impossible to soloqueue if u want to win since you would run in alot of premades (increasing premade party would kill soloqueue). My server doesnt have alot of PvPers so I'm happy to meet the same people cause I know they can play well.^^ I see server with a small pvp community will have a big disadvantage.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Cons:

3. Losing your cross server GC regulars.
at being said, how big of a con this is depends on how you weigh it against que times and the ability to que with friends.)

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Agree but always think about if you REALLY want to play with friends change GC if u want faster queue try as premade (6-8people) takes less than 10min. Yes 16 Pugs can drag you down but a 8man premade makes a huge difference against 24 Pugs I rarely lose when I go with a premade even if the other 16 people arent that great.

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Originally Posted by Februs

4. Possible one sided competitions.

long usual essay

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Not really lol. As one who partakes, this is already the case. Dropping GC's just means everyone gets an equal chance to play with or against the premade(s).

I only ask this of square enix if they remove GC restriction: PLEASE LET US Q AS 24. That is all.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Agree but always think about if you REALLY want to play with friends change GC if u want faster queue try as premade (6-8people) takes less than 10min. Yes 16 Pugs can drag you down but a 8man premade makes a huge difference against 24 Pugs I rarely lose when I go with a premade even if the other 16 people arent that great.

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The problem with changing GC's is that there's a big penalty to changing. Resetting your rank is kinda awful, especially after Lvl 40 when the exp requirements shoot up dramatically. This might not be the case if SE removed the rank resets (especially given that your PvP rank is not tied to your actual GC rank), but that would make GC stacking a bigger problem than it already is. I'm honestly not sure which is the better option.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Not really lol. As one who partakes, this is already the case. Dropping GC's just means everyone gets an equal chance to play with or against the premade(s).

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It is, yes. I guess better wording would be "increased chance of one sided competitions." I did say "possible," though. We couldn't know for sure until it happens. I'm just pointing out the possibility that a dramatic increase in Pre-mades could make things extra difficult for PUGs. After all, we can't expect everyone to sign up in Pre-mades. There will always be solo quers.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

SE already said in the live letter they consider removing the GC restriction but it isnt so easy as some people think.

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How can you not preface this with SE screwed up and kept GC's from 2.0. Fine they have achievements in 2.0 lead GC to X wins get an ugly mount. 3.0 add new map get new achievements win X amount of games. The excuse of technical issues you make me want to :confused::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

They could also make another que option where you just can't get wins for grand companies. Keep it separate from the roulette and go one step farther allow 24 man alliances and no ilvl sync. Are you telling it would be really that much more effort.

Conspiracy theory incoming: They have some serious issues with the Duty finder and I think they use the Grand Companies as a crutch to hide deficiencies.

I have not felt so betrayed by a development team since 1.0 At least in other games like LoL or Warcraft you get better answers and effort by the development team. Even if it is wrong or something you hate.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Not really lol. As one who partakes, this is already the case. Dropping GC's just means everyone gets an equal chance to play with or against the premade(s).

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It will mean more premades cause people like me who prefer to solo queue atm strictly because of the crap queues premade parties have, will actually be more inclined to join premades if you don't have to wait 40 minutes for a match as one like like you do now.

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Originally Posted by Stormrider

Conspiracy theory incoming: They have some serious issues with the Duty finder and I think they use the Grand Companies as a crutch to hide deficiencies.

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I'm not sure this is a conspiracy theory so much as it is a obvious truth that SE has been blatantly ignoring for a while now. DF is clearly buggy, even in PvE. It's average wait times are consistently miscalculated, and it occasionally gets locked, keeping someone in que limbo that they can only break out of by re-queing or queing for something else. SE's probably just scared to admit there's a problem because, after their original 1.0 fiasco (and SE's reputation in general) they're likely terrified they'll lose player confidence if they show signs of weakness.

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Originally Posted by Februs

I'm not sure this is a conspiracy theory so much as it is a obvious truth that SE has been blatantly ignoring for a while now. DF is clearly buggy, even in PvE. It's average wait times are consistently miscalculated, and it occasionally gets locked, keeping someone in que limbo that they can only break out of by re-queing or queing for something else. SE's probably just scared to admit there's a problem because, after their original 1.0 fiasco (and SE's reputation in general) they're likely terrified they'll lose player confidence if they show signs of weakness.

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It was clearly obvious what the whole problem is when one visits the '18th Floor'... none of them up there were Lalafells. And everybody knows... a group without a Lalafell has a higher chance of being a fail group. Fact.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

It will mean more premades cause people like me who prefer to solo queue atm strictly because of the crap queues premade parties have, will actually be more inclined to join premades if you don't have to wait 40 minutes for a match as one like like you do now.

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This is actually a problem. Try premades... duos normally ok, sometimes more buggy and 'limbo ques' than solo. Trio... mmmkay, getting over average wait time more and more. 4+ every que is going over average wait time.

Remove GCs, first 72 that tetris together and poof... in they go would be a whole lot faster than trying to tetris premade 2-8 player groups of all same banner, not once, not twice... but three times. Is it really a wonder why df feels broken?

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ remove GC from PvP or riot! ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Add solo queue.

Not only do I think they should remove gc restrictions, but I think this 1v1v1 system needs to go away if they want any semblance of balance or strategy to be applicable to Frontlines. These games are ruined when you have a third party in last that just decides "eh, I want this team to win".

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Originally Posted by Kanti

Not only do I think they should remove gc restrictions, but I think this 1v1v1 system needs to go away if they want any semblance of balance or strategy to be applicable to Frontlines. These games are ruined when you have a third party in last that just decides "eh, I want this team to win".

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This is also highly acceptable.

Just wanted to add since i decided to see what it is like on the yellow side of the fence. Beneath enemy rocks, is cumulative. So they must have known to not lock wins to one grand company was at 186 with flames at 187 after first adder win. Not sure about the gear ones since those already filled.

This again?

lol

I think FCs can be a way to help us get out of the GC restrictions.

(This is from Google, not my FC nor image)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7368/1...4136e273_b.jpg

FC reputation is kind of there, but it doesn't really do much other than (iirc) effect FC action costs (I don't really remember, I haven't been in a ranking FC in a very long time). Anyway, my point is, it doesn't really do much after you hit max rank in your FC and whatnot.

What I think would be kind of cool, is if you had to build reputation with the other GCs in order to fight with them. In the beginning, you would only be able to queue as your own GC. Using the picture for example, Player A would only be able to queue for their GC (lets say Adders), even though their FC is allied with the Flames. Again, using this FC as an example, they would have to gain reputation with Adders and Maelstorm because they are already maxed with the Flames. To gain this reputation, they would do levequests for that respected GC (the amount of GC levequests needed to be done would be determined by how many people are in your FC, just to make it fair for large and small FCs. And I suppose there could also be a bonus for doing leves for your GC to help your FC, if you have a different GC than the one your FC is allied to).

Once they all hit Allied, the FC leader simply needs to do a talking quest and the ranks will jump up another rank (similar to maxing all of the beast tribes, doing the quest, lets you hit a new rank with all the tribes) and unlock multi-GC-queuing for all members in that FC who to decide to PvP.

It would bring back attention to GC levequests (which I don't think anyone has done since their relic books made them XD) and incorporate the FC into PvP a bit as well. Those not in an FC would be assigned to their respected GC, and those with muti-queuing could chose between their respected GC or being sorted randomly into any GC that needs players.

I'm not sure how it'd effect rewards, though. Would the win count toward your GC? Would it count toward the GC you were fighting for? Would it count for all 3 (armored ponies for everyone!)?

Just an idea. It's 7am and I haven't had coffee yet. So it's probably really dumb. orz

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

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Good for you, my server is crowded and full of bads and people who don't care about PvP, so everytime I go into frontlines I'm teamed up with PvPers who don't care and run off into battle getting themselves killed just for esoterics. Of course there would be good players now and then, maybe 8, doesn't help with the other 16 getting killed. If the odds of getting better players could be increased, PvP would benefit broadly. PvP linksells would form more often, some will even merge. Premades would be more of a norm, big deal, not like going in solo will help you win. All this PvP GC player limits are RNG for a RNG battle. Why not increase the RNG to our advantage by giving us a better chance of a good group?

Removing or giving the option to be grouped with any GC could be resolved with the mercenary suggestion, click that and then you get tossed into a random GC, increased times for all. But lets not sit here and add all these extra things that really won't make a difference. "Less Eso leechers in the same parties' and "More competitive matches" it will not change these, The funny one Increased quality of teamwork..ahh I remember when I believed that too. All of these are going to still happen, no way around it. Less likely hood means nothing when you get those kinds of people 90% of the time and the remove GC reduces it down to 80%.

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Originally Posted by JubjubTubs

That's irrelevant crap to think about that they can handle easily...

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Complaining about irrelevant crap is what keeps these forums alive baby! Whether it's big or not to you doesn't mean that it's not something a person higher up the management chain weighs the same as you or I. It has to be considered and presented properly and then implemented. You're right, it's nothing major, at least not in our eyes but that's just not how it works. It all needs to be considered otherwise they're just rushing it.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Cons:

1. Um... lore?

(I guess there might be the odd person out there who actually cares about this... and SE used it as a total BS excuse, so might as well put it in the list).

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You're right..lore? In a final fantasy game?...I mean come..on. Right? No but seriously it's part of the lore, people like the lore. Why I do believe there's a whole section dedicated to Lore and those who cherish it. Think of a way to preserve the lore that Final Fantasy games have a history of and make these changes at the same time increase the rate at which people can get into PVP. And...go!

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

Removing or giving the option to be grouped with any GC could be resolved with the mercenary suggestion, click that and then you get tossed into a random GC, increased times for all. But lets not sit here and add all these extra things that really won't make a difference.

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So what exactly is wrong with the removal of the GC suggestion? Adding Mercenary Mode would the same just about, in fact it'd be pointless to have the roulette system if we can get put into a random mode for any of the 3 GC. Its exactly the same.

Unless your suggesting it so others who want to act like they're serving their GC's, they can just run normal Frontlines while others who don't care can run Mercenary mode. I guess it works out, but it still wouldn't matter if GC PvP battles wasn't a thing to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

So what exactly is wrong with the removal of the GC suggestion? Adding Mercenary Mode would the same just about, in fact it'd be pointless to have the roulette system if we can get put into a random mode for any of the 3 GC. Its exactly the same.

Unless your suggesting it so others who want to act like they're serving their GC's, they can just run normal Frontlines while others who don't care can run Mercenary mode. I guess it works out, but it still wouldn't matter if GC PvP battles wasn't a thing to begin with.

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I have nothing against removing it. I'm for it to a point. But you have to consider these things beyond just a quick delete, think of it in the entire business aspect of it..it gets mind boggling. The mercenary part though yes it would mean say if roulette is waiting for 2 more to put into the adder slots. Two Flames come in and try roulette and select the mercenary mode, it tosses them into the adders and off we go. Could PvP have been presented at the beginning without GC? Yes, should it? Most likely..but it wasn't. So now we have to look at work arounds. All I am saying is much like every other suggestion in this game, look at the much wider picture.

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

The mercenary part though yes it would mean say if roulette is waiting for 2 more to put into the adder slots.

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Honestly, I could see a mercenary que option helping in a lot of different ways. Exp bonuses, for one. It would be nice to have additional que options that could offer incentives. So, if they have a merc que that gives you a daily exp bonus, I'd be down for it. Or, if they added additional challenge logs for merc que'ing, same deal. Big incentive right there. Also, GILL. Merc's get paid. I'm not a crafter, so I'm constantly strapped for cash. Dungeon runs give gill, but it's pitiful by comparison to what crafters can make by controlling the MB with an iron fist. If they offered a merc que that paid out some money for your services (perhaps even scaling that money reward with your preformance) I'd probably que as a merc just so I could make some extra cash.

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

You're right..lore? In a final fantasy game?...I mean come..on. Right? No but seriously it's part of the lore, people like the lore. Why I do believe there's a whole section dedicated to Lore and those who cherish it. Think of a way to preserve the lore that Final Fantasy games have a history of and make these changes at the same time increase the rate at which people can get into PVP. And...go!

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Indeed. Lore is HUGE in FF... So, tell me... what exactly is the relevant lore to PvP in FFXIV? Oh, that's right, there isn't any (for seize).

My point with that post wasn't that lore itself isn't important. My point was that the lore specifically for PvP FL isn't important, because SE has blatantly ignored it.

The original lore for Frontlines was tied to the main story quests, and they went exactly NOWHERE with it. The FL battles are never settled. The territory dispute is never settled. The Omega weapon plot point was ignored and pushed to the background, and, lastly, ALL of the FL lore was completely ignored when they came out with Seize. How, exactly, does farming Allagan Data Tomes fit in with the lore of the territory disputes that FL was originally started for? I get that we're stealing Allagan data for our GC's... so I guess they all said F it to the territory dispute and decided to go straight to stealing?? I dunno, cuz they never said.

Personally, I wished they'd gone somewhere with the Omega Weapon thing (I still hope they do, as I myself am a fan of lore and have always loved the weapons), but they didn't. They didn't follow up on anything. If SE doesn't even care about keeping consistent with the lore and making sure there's some good solid story in it, than why the heck should we? Any "lore" excuse SE comes up with is total BS, since they didn't put hardly any lore whatsoever into the only expansion on PvP we've seen in half a year. It's clear that Lore is irrelevant to PvP.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Indeed. Lore is HUGE in FF... So, tell me... what exactly is the relevant lore to PvP in FFXIV? Oh, that's right, there isn't any (for seize).

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Exactly. Lore is as terrible an excuse as people who used to spout "unique tactics" in support for GC restrictions. Already the PvP crowd is letting out sooner and sooner these days. The PvP ques need a rework badly. I've qued for a grand total of nearly 2 hours, requeing every 30 minutes, and still haven't got a match. This would be unacceptable in any other MMO.