The Centurio Clan are terrible people [Light spoilers]

Think about it for a second, man hasn't set foot in The Churning Mists for centuries, and what is the first think Clan Centurio do? Send adventurers in to kill dragons, yep, that's right, obviously the best way to make peace with the dragons is to make them targets for coin hungry sellswords. They also do the same with Azys Lla, though, that is more understandable given most things in there are horrific machinations of a dead civilisation.

We're all terrible people...

... from a certain point of view.

Clan Centurio? No. Rowena is a terrible person. We're terrible people.

Ishgard and Dravania take the first steps towards ending their long bitter rivalry, and what does Rowena say?

"Hey Adventurers, could you make me some collectable dragonskin equipment?", and what do we do? We gladly oblige her. We slaughter dragons by the thousands just to get some of her fake currency.

Seriously, who at SE thought it was thematically appropriate to make so many of the new recipes involve the remains of dragons? Crafters are systematically slaughter dragons by the thousands just to produce their wares... I think we've done more damage than Ishgard, at this point... It's kind of hilarious to see NPCs like Midgardsormr commend you for trying to forge peace between man and dragon, while you're wearing gear made from the remains of dragons...

Strickly speaking the aggressive dragons in the Churning Mists are all part of Nidhogg's horde. Since these dragons are at war with Ishgard and Nidhogg's policy is never forgive, its hardly likely that hunting down these dragons is going to make our conflict with them much worse. In a to the death fight, they cant exactly make you more dead.

Rowena is evil though.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Strickly speaking the aggressive dragons in the Churning Mists are all part of Nidhogg's horde. Since these dragons are at war with Ishgard and Nidhogg's policy is never forgive, its hardly likely that hunting down these dragons is going to make our conflict with them much worse. In a to the death fight, they cant exactly make you more dead.

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This is how I see things as well, though regardless I still think skinning and tanning the hides of intelligent and sentient creatures for clothing is not at all on the side of moral right. It would be like using human leather, it wouldn't be any less gross if it was a murderer and a thief's skin. This is one gameplay mechanic that makes me cringe.

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

This is how I see things as well, though regardless I still think skinning and tanning the hides of intelligent and sentient creatures for clothing is not at all on the side of moral right. It would be like using human leather, it wouldn't be any less gross if it was a murderer and a thief's skin. This is one gameplay mechanic that makes me cringe.

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I'm not convinced all the dragons and avises we fight ARE sentient. Especially the Avises who were mortals turned into Draconic Drones via Blood Magic.

And some of the lesser dragons may have very little intelligence or sentience to them. I've only see a few we fight speak but that could also be game play over lore as well since the boss screaming "No Please!! Spare me I beg you!!" is kind of messed up when you HAVE to kill it anyway.

Also, on that note, Don't forget that we did kill Nidhogg's WIFE in the final boss room of Sohm Al.

....Whoops.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Seriously, who at SE thought it was thematically appropriate to make so many of the new recipes involve the remains of dragons? Crafters are systematically slaughter dragons by the thousands just to produce their wares... I think we've done more damage than Ishgard, at this point... It's kind of hilarious to see NPCs like Midgardsormr commend you for trying to forge peace between man and dragon, while you're wearing gear made from the remains of dragons...

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Hey we're adventurers! Killing things for loot is what we do. If burning down an orphanage dropped epic loot we'd probably do that to. :P

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

I'm not convinced all the dragons and avises we fight ARE sentient. Especially the Avises who were mortals turned into Draconic Drones via Blood Magic.

And some of the lesser dragons may have very little intelligence or sentience to them. I've only see a few we fight speak but that could also be game play over lore as well since the boss screaming "No Please!! Spare me I beg you!!" is kind of messed up when you HAVE to kill it anyway.

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There are creatures in the Dravanian Horde that haven't yet shown much proof of higher intelligence, like Archaeornis. But Dragons we know for certain are as intelligent as we are, just based on our interactions with them. They have a society, culture, language, government, and conscience. The Avises, I might be wrong, but I swear we've seen them speak at one point or another? It seems odd to me that they would be made less intelligent because of their transformations.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Also, on that note, Don't forget that we did kill Nidhogg's WIFE in the final boss room of Sohm Al.

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That was completely different. With her, I needed a Triple Triad card.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

Hey we're adventurers! Killing things for loot is what we do. If burning down an orphanage dropped epic loot we'd probably do that to. :P

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I'm pretty sure I'd do it for less than epic loot.

. . . I'm pretty sure that I'm already beating-up dragonets just so I can buy training dummies to level carpenter desynthesis with >_>

That said, Clan Centurio, still pretty bad, what with how they keep selling poor innocent baby animals to us as minions after they brutally slaughter their parents.

I don't see whats the problem with killing Nidhogg's brood when they are already conditioned to hate man and the bastard himself sends his brood to die forever to punish a group of people who in that generation are disgusted by the actions (even the pope and thordans knights back then were) let alone using the skin to protect yourself and safeguard Ishgard.

They also been attacking Hraesvelgar sometime after the aery and before Ysale's reappearance against the might Gration.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

I'm not convinced all the dragons and avises we fight ARE sentient. Especially the Avises who were mortals turned into Draconic Drones via Blood Magic. And some of the lesser dragons may have very little intelligence or sentience to them.

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Kaiser has the right of it here.

It was recently confirmed through an interview that those falling into the dragon family (dragonkin) are many. The term is obviously inclusive of wyrms and wyverns, but also people transformed into scalekin (aevis, syricta and diresaurs [evolving in that order]) and other assorted scalekin (dragonflies, drakes, biasts and tyranosaurs), who are described merely as mindless monsters and unintelligent lower lifeforms enthralled by powerful wyrms. They all move to the same purpose, but that doesn't make them all real dragons.

True dragons are wyrms, by my understanding (even though wyverns are also intelligent) and are characterized by having four legs, a set of wings, high intelligence, and eyes that collect and store aether as they age (The older they are, the more powerful they become. Coincidentally, the power contained in their eyes is also what extends their lifespan).


So, about that dragon skin...

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Strickly speaking the aggressive dragons in the Churning Mists are all part of Nidhogg's horde. Since these dragons are at war with Ishgard and Nidhogg's policy is never forgive, its hardly likely that hunting down these dragons is going to make our conflict with them much worse. In a to the death fight, they cant exactly make you more dead.

Rowena is evil though.

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Exactly my thoughts about Nidhogg's crew. They get what they deserve.

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

There are creatures in the Dravanian Horde that haven't yet shown much proof of higher intelligence, like Archaeornis. But Dragons we know for certain are as intelligent as we are, just based on our interactions with them. They have a society, culture, language, government, and conscience. The Avises, I might be wrong, but I swear we've seen them speak at one point or another? It seems odd to me that they would be made less intelligent because of their transformations.



That was completely different. With her, I needed a Triple Triad card.

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The Vises, along with a few other types of "dragon" do speak during several fates. Nearly all the dragon-types present in Churning Mists speak at some point, with the exception being the dinos and the dragonfly types I believe.

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Originally Posted by Shirobi

The Vises, along with a few other types of "dragon" do speak during several fates. Nearly all the dragon-types present in Churning Mists speak at some point, with the exception being the dinos and the dragonfly types I believe.

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There's also a wyvern that speaks in Anyx Trine.

I'd assume that most if not all varieties are capable of speech, but with varying degrees of intelligence.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

There's also a wyvern that speaks in Anyx Trine.

I'd assume that most if not all varieties are capable of speech, but with varying degrees of intelligence.

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I think it may be the "independent evolution" mentioned in the Blue Dragon's triple triad card is in play. Individual dragons may end-up looking a lot like "lesser" species, making people think that all wyverns are true dragons when it's really that sometimes a true dragon will just end up looking like a wyvern.

I suspect the woman requesting the clan to clear out Azys Lla's hunt mobs is Rowena. IIRC the text for A/S says a woman wants to salvage stuff there to make a profit, so adventurers are the clean up crew. Truly a gil-hungry woman!

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Originally Posted by Dalvy

I suspect the woman requesting the clan to clear out Azys Lla's hunt mobs is Rowena. IIRC the text for A/S says a woman wants to salvage stuff there to make a profit, so adventurers are the clean up crew. Truly a gil-hungry woman!

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That doesn't surprise me, Rowena is the true mastermind of the Eorzean Alliance, she has a million or so adventurers doing her bidding.