Could a possible adjustment to VIT gear be made?

Does it seem like what with the STR/VIT debate going on with tanks that maybe some sort of stat or effect be added to VIT accessories to increase their usefulness? Savage depends heavily on whole party DPS, and though that's in the most extreme of content, VIT and STR are still both a tank's mainstay, they both helpfully allow us to perform our roles. But VIT accessories by themselves are like excess water, we need VIT to survive, but too much of it is useless to us and can also be harmful.

What would make VIT more useful as a counter-balance to STR but still be useful enough as is that it's good to equally use both?

Maybe have vitality add to mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Dererk

Maybe have vitality add to mitigation.

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^ all of this. or if Vit was part of our damage or self healing.

I'd hate for vit to completely replace strength, I love that there's at least one set of classes in the game that has to make some sort of stat choice.

But it could really use a very small modifier to damage reduction, healing received, and damage dealt.

Or just give us heavier Tank busters to deal with, that's like the main reason why you would need higher amount of VIT in the 1st place to survive them.

So let's say A1S, the lowest I can reduce it to is 9K as a DRK and 2nd TB is 11K *but I pop WD for this* 3RD TB just 9K again. So I put myself at 13K HP and the rest of my right side gear is slaying gear.

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Originally Posted by Martin_Arcainess

So let's say A1S, the lowest I can reduce it to is 9K as a DRK and 2nd TB is 11K *but I pop WD for this* 3RD TB just 9K again. So I put myself at 13K HP and the rest of my right side gear is slaying gear.

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How are you getting only 13k HP ? I have a bit more than 15k with full STR right side at i198.


Anyway, yeah it's cool that at least tanks have a stat choice but it's also completely stupid that we are the only ones that need to actually spend a buttload of gils to get our optimal jewelry (which is not even max ilvl btw, it's stupid too). Our BiS jewelry should be like everyone else, a raid loot and token thing. I don't think they should make tank attack power scale with VIT, but they could create a set of i210 hybrid accessories without especially deleting the full VIT ones or even just add STR on VIT jewelry but make it so that there is less STR than on slaying accessories but still more than on crafted i150 (which is fucking 60 ilvls lower), this way DRGs and MNKs won't take them to get 20k HP. Or make them tank esclusive.

As a point of reference, going from full VIT to full i190 STR gear on a WAR increases my potency value by 26.8%.
More specifically Flash under Defiance and Maim does 3995 in VIT gear, and 5066 in STR gear, so 26.8% more hate/damage/everything going from full VIT to full STR.

On Faust, the raid level parsing metric, I can do about 700-750 dps, depending on when exactly he dies since my major DPS CD's come back up at the 2 minute mark, all while in Defiance.
So lets say for the sake of argument that a generic tank does 700 dps in full STR gear in tank stance, given 100% uptime.
That means the same tank, using the same rotation, same stance, same 100% uptime, would do 700/1.268 = 552 dps in VIT gear.
This is a difference of 148 dps. Each raid has 4 full time dps classes, 148/4 = 37, your 4 dps each need to push 37 more dps to "make up for" the difference in tank dps w/ STR gear vs VIT gear.

At the same time, going from full VIT to full STR lowers my HP from 24075 to 18822, or conversely a tank in VIT gear has 27.9% more HP than a STR tank, but the STR tank does 26.8% more damage.

So it is actually kinda even so far, roughly 27 for 27, so one could make the argument that tanks should just go w/ STR since 27% more damage all the time is more useful than 27% more max hp IF you never get remotely close to dying.
A 190+ tank in an expert that's tuned for people in 150 gear, should be fine running STR and pulling normally... or pulling like a madman if your healer and 2 aoe capable dps all outgear the content by 40 ilvls like you do.
But when you get into much more difficult content, such as Alex Savage, that extra health becomes kinda useful.
I have had numerous instances where I died to an autoattack while my healer screamed bullshit on how they cast the heal in time but it didnt register before the autoattack... far too many times for my taste.
Even going 50/50 STR/VIT accessories, I would have had enough of an HP buffer to survive the autoattack in question every time, so that the heal in question would land and we all continue chugging along... But 100% STR gear, 100% of the time... unless you have full i200 on your left side, or your healers are simply that amazeballs, I wouldnt risk it.

As far as the main point of this thread, yes if tanks are going to be REQUIRED to wear STR gear, reducing their survivability in order to add a whopping 148 dps to the raid's what... 5-6k total dps (under ideal circumstances) - thats ~2.8% more raid dps... then they should either:
1. Be able to roll NEED on STR acc's.
2. Naturally have STR on Fending accessories, and locking them to tanks exclusively.
3. Have VIT increase Attack Power while in the tank stance such that WHEN TANKING, a VIT tank actually does MORE damage than a STR tank, though out of the tank stance, the STR tank will do more damage than the VIT tank.

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Originally Posted by Martin_Arcainess

Or just give us heavier Tank busters to deal with, that's like the main reason why you would need higher amount of VIT in the 1st place to survive them.

So let's say A1S, the lowest I can reduce it to is 9K as a DRK and 2nd TB is 11K *but I pop WD for this* 3RD TB just 9K again. So I put myself at 13K HP and the rest of my right side gear is slaying gear.

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You have a terrible CD rotation and I have no idea how your healers put up with it. They're straight up carrying you through those tank busters. You should take 6-9K from the first/third and 3-6K from the second with DA Dark Mind/Shadowskin/Convalescence and DA Dark Mind/Shadowskin/Shadow Wall respectively, and Dark Dance in advance to proc a Reprisal for all of them. You actually require about twice as much healing using LD as opposed to a proper sequence of CDs.

You should invest in pentamelds cause 13K HP is going to get LOLed at so hard in the later turns. Pentamelds offer you about 4K more HP at the cost of like, 25-50 dps, if that.

No.

Vitality is powerful enough and we already have stats that increase mitigation called armor as well as other buffs. Adding more healing to it would give an even bigger bonus to Warriors and so would more mitigation.

It would also make crafted jewelry with Vitality and Strength ridiculous and make the game completely pay to win.

RMT is already popular. We don't need to make it more-so.

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Originally Posted by Huntington

Does it seem like what with the STR/VIT debate going on with tanks that maybe some sort of stat or effect be added to VIT accessories to increase their usefulness? Savage depends heavily on whole party DPS, and though that's in the most extreme of content, VIT and STR are still both a tank's mainstay, they both helpfully allow us to perform our roles. But VIT accessories by themselves are like excess water, we need VIT to survive, but too much of it is useless to us and can also be harmful.

What would make VIT more useful as a counter-balance to STR but still be useful enough as is that it's good to equally use both?

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There is no content in which you need that much HP for right now.

a large tank buster i can fix that HOLMGANG Swap

btw no warrior is derived from the idea of emnity comes from potent hits. these folks are trying to undue reality to fix another job.

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

How are you getting only 13k HP ? I have a bit more than 15k with full STR right side at i198.
Anyway, yeah it's cool that at least tanks have a stat choice but it's also completely stupid that we are the only ones that need to actually spend a buttload of gils to get our optimal jewelry (which is not even max ilvl btw, it's stupid too). Our BiS jewelry should be like everyone else, a raid loot and token thing. I don't think they should make tank attack power scale with VIT, but they could create a set of i210 hybrid accessories without especially deleting the full VIT ones or even just add STR on VIT jewelry but make it so that there is less STR than on slaying accessories but still more than on crafted i150 (which is fucking 60 ilvls lower), this way DRGs and MNKs won't take them to get 20k HP. Or make them tank esclusive.

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lol 16K I ment, freak knows why I put 13K in there. But I only have 1 Fending acs on but at this rate just my left side gear would provide all the VIT I need with food. I'm even buy 200 Slaying gear :z

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

You have a terrible CD rotation and I have no idea how your healers put up with it. They're straight up carrying you through those tank busters. You should take 6-9K from the first/third and 3-6K from the second with DA Dark Mind/Shadowskin/Convalescence and DA Dark Mind/Shadowskin/Shadow Wall respectively, and Dark Dance in advance to proc a Reprisal for all of them. You actually require about twice as much healing using LD as opposed to a proper sequence of CDs.

You should invest in pentamelds cause 13K HP is going to get LOLed at so hard in the later turns. Pentamelds offer you about 4K more HP at the cost of like, 25-50 dps, if that.

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Ah so you watched my fights in A1S do you? Have a 3rd eye or something?
I do reduce the TB to 9k and I only pop LD in case of emergency. PLD has HG during then so worries there so calm your tits :p and I may have only just recently learn that I could combine DA+DM. Know I am even reducing the TB to 0 \o/

I was thinking about this a couple days ago. The easiest way to make VIT accessories actually meaningful would be to give them Defense and Magic Defense stats higher than 1. That way, they'd by default add to your base mitigation without being game-breakingly better than STR accessories. Instead of just providing meaningless additional fluff, they'd provide more survivability AND greater mitigation - this way you'd actually have INCENTIVE to use them, whereas right now all it does is make me fluffier and absolutely nothing else aside from trading useful stats for Parry.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

I was thinking about this a couple days ago. The easiest way to make VIT accessories actually meaningful would be to give them Defense and Magic Defense stats higher than 1.

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. . .
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. . . . . . . . . . . how has no one thought of this before?

#JackFross #FeelingDumb

Everyone is looking to change how VIT works in order to make it useful but why over-complicate things? Currently for healers, their accessories have MND and Peity. One effects their usefulness, other is just a straight gain on max MP. They could easily implement this on tank accessories by simple changing those accessories to WAR/PLD/DRK only as to avoid overpowering DRG/MNK to have excessive HP. The only real issue i see with this would be that accessories typically only have 3 stats, and that would only leave one allocation for parry/accuracy/determination/critical hit. Leaving it at 3 stats might not be the best end result and increasing them to 4 might be a better option.

But hey, that's just trying to give the simplest change I can think of.