According to the survey, an equal number of people play the tank and healer roles

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...1a1e3a201cd976

Yet the "adventure in need" bonus for roulettes is for tanks 90-95% of the time. What makes people want to tank less in DF compared to healer? Sure being undergeared makes it harder to hold agro, but it also makes it harder to heal, especially if everybody is pulling EVERYTHING, or tanking the ground (AoEs)

Sure people often expect you to be the leader, but this is often an advantage to many as well. Plus, you'll always have people that will happily take charge if you don't want to do it anyways. With the healer I always feel like I'm more bound to whatever the group wants to do. If you want to do this completely optional side room as a tank, I HIGHLY doubt anyone's going to stop you, or let you die (like they might if you were not the tank that pulled that room.

Oh and level syncing to low level healer in the roulette is the worst, I can't think of anything more boring. While every job has this problem to some extent, At least tanks and DPS have at least 3 moves to use during a dungeon like satasha. The ONLY thing the healer is doing related to their role (which is healing), is spamming ONE FREAKIN BUTTON. Cure, Physick, benefic (depending on class). However, since you'll rarely be healing in these dungeons anyways, you're limited to your very exciting DPS moves, one instant DoT and that one 2.5 sec cast move they have (stone, ruin, malefic)

That isn't a population of what people actively play but what people have leveled. I also simply refuse to tank for a group of random people in the DF most of the time and I'm sure I'm not the only tank that does this.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

That isn't a population of what people actively play but what people have leveled. I also simply refuse to tank for a group of random people in the DF most of the time and I'm sure I'm not the only tank that does this.

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You've missed the point. My posts acknowledges exactly this, my post is asking WHY tanks aren't queing in the DF. It's already a given they aren't

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Originally Posted by HolyGlassofWater

You've missed the point. My posts acknowledges exactly this, my post is asking WHY tanks aren't queing in the DF. It's already a given they aren't

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Because they know most people in DF are awful and don't want to put up with them.

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Originally Posted by HolyGlassofWater

You've missed the point. My posts acknowledges exactly this, my post is asking WHY tanks aren't queing in the DF. It's already a given they aren't

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Because the DF is a terrible environment and I have no shortage of friends I know won't blame me for something they screwed up or be completely terrible at thier job and waste my time.

I have no need to use the DF to get my stuff done and sure as hell don't have a desire to use it either.

It is hard for me to trust DF healers when I tank dungeon since I've had horrible experiences while leveling up. If I'm feeling like it (or I'm really in a hurry and can't wait for a queue longer than 6-10 minutes) I can DF tank, but if I can help it I'd rather take charge and heal myself - it makes me feel safer.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Because they know most people in DF are awful and don't want to put up with them.

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I can say the same thing for any other job I'm playing. The discussion question is why it's tanks moreso than other roles. There's a huge amount of pressure on the healer as well.

i give pretty much the same answer most already have, i just plainly refuse to run anything in this game with randoms, its just not worth it since there are so many bads in this game, and i dont feel like wasting my time

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Originally Posted by HolyGlassofWater

I can say the same thing for any other job I'm playing. The discussion question is why it's tanks moreso than other roles. There's a huge amount of pressure on the healer as well.

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as for this, its probably because of the fact tanks are the center of attention for all content, everything runs based on how they are playing any particular duty, and thus get far more flak from the masses than any other classes do by far.

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Originally Posted by HolyGlassofWater

You've missed the point. My posts acknowledges exactly this, my post is asking WHY tanks aren't queing in the DF. It's already a given they aren't

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Because of John Gabriel's Greater Internet F--kwad Theory.

Anonymity + audience = total F--kwad.

They'll never see me again, so why should I be polite, basically. Mommy didn't teach them manners, they'll never see you again, so being an asshole has no consequence.

Because if the tanks don't wear STR accessories, they will get called out, blamed and bad mouthed because making a dungeon run too long.
One reason I stop playing a tank.

I think people don't queue as tanks because, for many, it's too stressful.

Generally, I find folks in DF to be reasonable - I don't get all this smack that people complain about.

That said, it's usually much more relaxing to just go as my DPS class.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Because of John Gabriel's Greater Internet F--kwad Theory.

Anonymity + audience = total F--kwad.

They'll never see me again, so why should I be polite, basically. Mommy didn't teach them manners, they'll never see you again, so being an asshole has no consequence.

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The fact that people act like assholes on sites where their real name is on full display suggests it's not anonymity that's to blame.

From my personal experiences, the content is a lot less stressful and easier on a healer compared to a tank.

If all you are doing as a healer is healing with no concern for DPSing, it's an incredibly easy job. Hell, you can just straight up AFK for the majority of a lot of dungeons. And, that is precisely what a lot of healers do. Especially SCHs. Most of the time, nobody will call you out on your laziness. My WHM is only 59 but I've leveled it exclusively through dungeon roulettes.

My situation is a little different since I already knew the dungeons incredibly well from having run them so many times on 3 different tank classes. But, as a healer, you can often just follow the group and be fine. Tanks are burdened with leading groups.

Grew a thick skin long ago so when someone unconstructively criticize my tanking I just put up with them till we reach near the last boss the I vote dismiss them.

Works like a charm.

When I am in the mood to tank, I do it for FC members or friends. As a healer, I see the bad mouthing that goes on to tanks who screw up in the slightest, cus that slight mistake is the most noticeable.

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Originally Posted by Arabian_Wolf

Grew a thick skin long ago so when someone unconstructively criticize my tanking I just put up with them till we reach near the last boss the I vote dismiss them.

Works like a charm.

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People like this tank is one of the many reasons I can't stand doing DF content on my Healer.

If some random DF person goes out their way to criticise your playstyle it's probably because you're doing something you shouldn't.

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

snip.

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I very rarely ever wear STR accessories and i've never been called out before.

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Originally Posted by HolyGlassofWater

snip..

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Here's another thought, why don't you unlock one of the tanking jobs and level it up and que up for the DF as you are complaining about. For someone who has been around for over a year + you barely touched any of the jobs/classes.


Edit: I run items I need with my FC/Static or one of the LS's I'm in so there is no need to que up solo in DF.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

The fact that people act like assholes on sites where their real name is on full display suggests it's not anonymity that's to blame.

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You assume everyone uses their real name.

Though if you saw the RealID shitstorm on the battle.net forums, you'd have seen a *lot* of people pissed they couldn't anonymously troll anymore.

No, it doesn't cover all assholes, but when there's no personal accountability (ie: DF with folks you'll never see again), it sure accounts for a lot of it.

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Originally Posted by Bhuni

People like this tank is one of the many reasons I can't stand doing DF content on my Healer.

If some random DF person goes out their way to criticise your playstyle it's probably because you're doing something you shouldn't.

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Or they're just an asshole.

I don't *need* to do anything more than hold aggro. That's my job. Keep the mobs off the rest of you.

Anything other than that is icing, and telling me I'm terrible because I'm not using a specific rotation/gear set/strategy just makes you an asshole.

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

Because if the tanks don't wear STR accessories, they will get called out, blamed and bad mouthed because making a dungeon run too long.
One reason I stop playing a tank.

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The funny thing is, if you rock strength accessories you may just run into someone that screams at you to wear vitality.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/...ruvjb9605r.gif

Tanks can't win for losing.

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Originally Posted by Bhuni

People like this tank is one of the many reasons I can't stand doing DF content on my Healer.

If some random DF person goes out their way to criticise your playstyle it's probably because you're doing something you shouldn't.

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Just as often, it's because they fucked up but they don't want anyone to know. So they try to cover up whatever they did by shifting the blame to the tank because they're the most convenient and/or visible target. If some random-ass DPS throws a tantrum because they got their face eaten when they went full bore on a mob that I didn't even have the chance to put any enmity into yet, they deserve to go wait in the DPS queue some more and think about how they play. Honestly, I don't typically queue solo as a tank in DF because I have plenty of friends that play DPS that love 1) the shorter queues and 2) having a competent tank. A lot of the time I actually end up running 2-3 Experts daily because I get asked to go with several different groups of people.

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

Because if the tanks don't wear STR accessories, they will get called out, blamed and bad mouthed because making a dungeon run too long.
One reason I stop playing a tank.

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You only get called out if don't use cooldowns, which is what happens to 70% of the tanks i find during my DF runs so it's quite a common occurrence since certain youtubers started spreading that str is good.

I usually pug most of my daily stuff as whm and i've found a lot of tanks that do that on purpose just to force me to heal because "yoshi-p said healer dps doesn't count". Even when dps is doing 300 dps each and i can do 700, i'll be down to 500 because i have to carry the stupid tank who can't use his toolkit properly, so yea, you can be damn sure i'll call out if you're not playing the class correctly.

Here we go again. The start of another long thread full of tanks telling everyone how special they are and how they are better than everyone else in DF. And that anyone who plays DPS in DF are bad scum.

http://i.imgur.com/HTeW40n.gif

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Just as often, it's because they fucked up but they don't want anyone to know. So they try to cover up whatever they did by shifting the blame to the tank because they're the most convenient and/or visible target. If some random-ass DPS throws a tantrum because they got their face eaten when they went full bore on a mob that I didn't even have the chance to put any enmity into yet, they deserve to go wait in the DPS queue some more and think about how they play. Honestly, I don't typically queue solo as a tank in DF because I have plenty of friends that play DPS that love 1) the shorter queues and 2) having a competent tank. A lot of the time I actually end up running 2-3 Experts daily because I get asked to go with several different groups of people.

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If you have the slightest amount of awareness it's pretty obvious to tell who's fucked up what, so blaming others for your own mistakes is not something anyone should risk getting kicked over.

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Originally Posted by Ulathskullsplitter

Here we go again. The start of another long thread full of tanks telling everyone how special they are and how they are better than everyone else in DF. And that anyone who plays DPS in DF are bad scum.

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More like a long list of people asking the same question hoping to get different answers.

Fact of the matter is, Tanks are in far more demand than DPS are, even outside of duty finder. If they want a group, all they have to do is say "anyone want to run an expert" and get answers.

There is, quite literally, no reason for a tank to ever actually use duty finder. And while they yes, can be assholes, much like the other two roles, that simple fact that they're highly desired makes it FAR easier to get a group without having to wait around.. which is what I tend to have to do when I want to go DPS.



So.... shout in FC or Idyllshire /shout "tank running expert, pst if you want to come", get started in less than a minute, or get into duty finder with a bunch of people you have no idea what to expect with.

Like it or not, the tanks(and to a lesser degree, healers) *do* have the advantage here.

I'll bet that many max level tanks are the alts for people who mostly dps. Someone really loves their bard or dragoon, yet they level a tank job just to have the option to queue quickly (and they choose tank over healer). But if you really love your dps job, you want to fight in dungeons as that.

So basically I think more dps have a tank alt than a healer alt. Thus fewer "tanks" are really tanks, while "healers" tend to really be healers.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

I'll bet that many max level tanks are the alts for people who mostly dps. Someone really loves their bard or dragoon, yet they level a tank job just to have the option to queue quickly (and they choose tank over healer). But if you really love your dps job, you want to fight in dungeons as that.

So basically I think more dps have a tank alt than a healer alt. Thus fewer "tanks" are really tanks, while "healers" tend to really be healers.

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This is likely part of it... but it does say something for why they're not actually queued as a tank.

Because they don't want to put up with the bullshit that the actual tanks don't want to put up with either.

Fact of the matter is, the tank gets lumped up with all sorts of responsibility that is *not* part of that job. I know plenty of folks that love playing tanks and getting their face mashed in, but don't want to lead the group, don't want to be responsible for everything, explaining mechanics.



hell *I* don't like doing it, and will not do it unless someone asks me to. If I see a "new player" bonus, I will offer, but I will not default. It's not my job, there's absolutely nothing concrete in the rules that says the tank *most definitely is* in charge of doing so.

But game society mandating additional responsibility outside the "protect your teammates from damage by making monsters focus on you instead" part, I can totally see why a lot of folks don't want to do it. And the ones that *do*, and "get a thicker skin", end up being more like the asshole tanks folks complain about. And who can blame them? Bitch at me enough about stupid, trivial crap and and I just start tuning everyone out, doing my own thing, f 'em. They're gonna bitch anyways.

Cause and effect. DPS/Healers chew out tanks and complain they're assholes, while tanks are assholes because they're constantly getting chewed out. Vicious cycle.

You need to look at multiple graphs to get a better picture. Roughly 3/4s of the new classes are 30-40 Dark Knights are larger percentage of their role than Machinist and Astrologian therefore there's going to be simple disparities outside the 30 to 40 range which is most of the game. Thus a reason why Tanks will be Adventurers in Need unless you are in the 30s window.

Dps like to not dps.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Because they know most people in DF are awful and don't want to put up with them.

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I have had nothing but smooth runs with the DF. I don't know where people are getting this experience.

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Originally Posted by HolyGlassofWater

You've missed the point. My posts acknowledges exactly this, my post is asking WHY tanks aren't queing in the DF. It's already a given they aren't

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Because they don't want to?
I got a lvl 60 PLD, but I just don't like tanking :p

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

I have had nothing but smooth runs with the DF. I don't know where people are getting this experience.

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NA servers most likely :p

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Originally Posted by hagare

Because they don't want to?
I got a lvl 60 PLD, but I just don't like tanking :p



NA servers most likely :p

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I play on a NA server.

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

I play on a NA server.

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so do most of those who say DF is awful xD

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Originally Posted by hagare

so do most of those who say DF is awful xD

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I wonder why I am spared the bad experiences then. Whenever I queue up for a trial or dungeon we rarely wipe. In fact the only thing I can remember wiping from in the past few weeks is when I got Bismark in the duty finder and that's it.

I'm curious as to peoples definition of "awful".

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

I wonder why I am spared the bad experiences then. Whenever I queue up for a trial or dungeon we rarely wipe. In fact the only thing I can remember wiping from in the past few weeks is when I got Bismark in the duty finder and that's it.

I'm curious as to peoples definition of "awful".

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you should see the thread that asks why new content isn't in DF. lols

not saying J data center is 100% perfect, yesterday I joined an in progress A1N DF as DPS.
right when I joined, the chat is filled with two tanks arguing against one another.
one pull, one tank starts trolling. a wipe and a vote dismiss later we got another tank.
we try again, wipe wipe wipe, no one but me doing mechanics and missile goes boom.
explaining things to people who say they're new as DPS there. We try again.
after I deal with the two main opp adds, I turn to see one DPS running around with an add, one DPS standing in place burning boss while being mauled by an add, and one DPS just burning boss not caring about anything else.
FYI, it was an all english speaking DF, one vote abandon later and DF later I one shot + got my bolt.


I feel like this gif perfectly illustrates the situation:
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-Community.gif

PS: when I played WoW during cataclysm, I never had awful DF experiences either xD

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

I have had nothing but smooth runs with the DF. I don't know where people are getting this experience.

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I mean I don't either, but I'm hesitant to say bad runs are a minority since I'm only one person.

The worst runs I've had are 35-45 ones where some DPS don't have soul crystals.

No, but the bad memories are the ones you remember the most.

I don't get a whole lot of "bad" groups, but I also have a lower than normal "stupidity" tolerance.

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

I have had nothing but smooth runs with the DF. I don't know where people are getting this experience.

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Then congratulations, you are extraordinarily lucky. I'm fortunate if I can go two runs without some astonishingly brain-dead team incapable of doing even the simplest of mechanics, such as "don't let the healer die to Sable Price, the thing with a big 1 over it".

I haven't had too many awful experiences tanking either. Usually the best thing is to, egad, discus with your team what kind of run wanted and then go for it.

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Originally Posted by mp-please

You only get called out if don't use cooldowns, which is what happens to 70% of the tanks i find during my DF runs so it's quite a common occurrence since certain youtubers started spreading that str is good.

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When I was doing ex roulette, I was a PLD, wearing all full vit law accessories, got Fractal and before we move, the DRG peeked at me and said "LOL vit tank" and then left.
I've never had any problems tanking, some even say "your tanking was good", "no problems", "nah you don't need str accs" etc.
But it takes only that one person, that particular DRG, made me stop playing a tank.

Now I'm playing a DPS and have so much fun with it. I've never been called out yet, because my DPS somehow satisfied them who play with parsers and everything and I hope it stays like that.

Long queue? I'll live with it, better than being blamed because I, a tank, make a dungeon run too long.