Remove Weapon Rack from Strife Vest

Hey there! So there is a weapon rack on the back of the Strife Vest. It... serves no real purpose and I don't like wearing the vest because of it.

Is there any way it could be removed from the model? Thanks!

But then it wouldn't be a Strife Vest...

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Originally Posted by Bhuni

But then it wouldn't be a Strife Vest...

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by that logic, it's not a strife vest without a giant sword either.

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Originally Posted by storm

by that logic, it's not a strife vest without a giant sword either.

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Dark Knight says hi.

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Originally Posted by storm

by that logic, it's not a strife vest without a giant sword either.

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Which you can get by just being a Dark Knight.

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Originally Posted by Bhuni

But then it wouldn't be a Strife Vest...

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The sheathes aren't actually attached to the vest, are they? If not, then it'll still be the Strife Vest. At the very least they could offer a version without it, they're pretty ugly just sitting there empty.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

The sheathes aren't actually attached to the vest, are they? If not, then it'll still be the Strife Vest. At the very least they could offer a version without it, they're pretty ugly just sitting there empty.

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Can we take the crystals outta XIV then? They hurt my eyes and aren't iconic whatsoever.

It's a very silly suggestion, if you don't like it don't wear it instead of asking for a popular Final Fantasy characters costume to be suited to your needs.

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Originally Posted by Bhuni

Can we take the crystals outta XIV then? They hurt my eyes and aren't iconic whatsoever.

It's a very silly suggestion, if you don't like it don't wear it instead of asking for a popular Final Fantasy characters costume to be suited to your needs.

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I'm not quite sure why this suggestion bugs you so. The sheathes aren't iconic, the sword(s) are. As of now they're just empty sheathes, if they adding the swords in just for decorative purposes I wouldn't mind them, but for them to just be empty? It's as much part of the vest as my bag being part of my shirt (not part of it all).

To be fair Mr strife didn't have the need for his 7 sword motorcycle or his back mounted weapon store until advent children hit it big. It would've made sense to me to have a "strife outfit" and/or an "advent strife outfit" to pick from (especially since in advent children he used multiple swords as opposed to the Buster Sword) but seeing the 3x repeated lightning event that's sole purpose was to hype up the XIII franchise I can only assume we got the ff7 remake outfit to hype that up too

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Originally Posted by Colorful

I'm not quite sure why this suggestion bugs you so. The sheathes aren't iconic, the sword(s) are. As of now they're just empty sheathes, if they adding the swords in just for decorative purposes I wouldn't mind them, but for them to just be empty? It's as much part of the vest as my bag being part of my shirt (not part of it all).

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The sheathes are apart of the costume therefore they are iconic, it bugs me because people think they're entitled to having past Final Fantasy characters costumes changed to suit their needs.

Sure they made the XIII stuff dyable but asking for something to be removed from the costume itself doesn't make sense, the whole point of implementing this costume was so folk could dress up as one of the most iconic characters in the series.

If you don't like looking like Clouds incarnation in Advent Children sheathes and all don't wear it.

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Originally Posted by Bhuni

The sheathes are apart of the costume therefore they are iconic, it bugs me because people think they're entitled to having past Final Fantasy characters costumes changed to suit their needs.

Sure they made the XIII stuff dyable but asking for something to be removed from the costume itself doesn't make sense, the whole point of implementing this costume was so folk could dress up as one of the most iconic characters in the series.

If you don't like looking like Clouds incarnation in Advent Children sheathes and all don't wear it.

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This post is pure idiocy. It would be effortless to simply add a on/off feature to the ugly sheath.
That would apeal to both crowds. The sheath isnt iconic in the slightest, just because "he uses it" is a terrible excuse. The advent children costume itself is hardly iconic in itself.
There is nothing "entitled" about wanting a on/off feature for this especially when it clips with weapons.

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Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

This post is pure idiocy. It would be effortless to simply add a on/off feature to the ugly sheathe

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No it would not be effortless at all to implement that feature, and my post is the one riddled with idiocy? Smh.

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Originally Posted by Bhuni

No it would not be be effortless at all to implement that feature and my post is riddled with idiocy? Smh.

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Yes, it would infact be effortless.Pure idiocy because you are against a very minimal part of a costume being able to be toggled off when said part causes clipping and generally looks bad.

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Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

Yes, it would infact be effortless.Pure idiocy because you are against a very minimal part of a costume being able to be toggled off when said part causes clipping and generally looks bad.

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http://lolheaven.com/wp-content/uplo...14/01/2372.jpg

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Originally Posted by Bhuni

http://lolheaven.com/wp-content/uplo...14/01/2372.jpg

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Take your own advice lol.

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Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

The advent children costume itself is hardly iconic in itself.

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Gotta disagree with you there. Particularly this side of the world. Even with the new Dissidia featuring the original as default, he'll still appearing in the Advent Children garb more often.

As for the post being idiotic, you're being overly harsh. One (or two) people wanting to alter an iconic costume is not worth the manpower required to add a toggle, nor for the extra client resources it'll require in terms of asset layers in a game already pushing it's resource limits on *cough* certain platforms.

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Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

Take your own advice lol.

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All you brought to this thread is pure ignorance and calling me an idiot whilst outing yourself as one later bbz.

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Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

Yes, it would infact be effortless.

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No, it wouldn't. Neither from a coding, nor an assets standpoint. Do you have any idea what is involved in tiering model and texture layers, in a game with this many shaders and post-render effects in use?

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Originally Posted by Bhuni

All you brought to this thread is pure ignorance and calling me an idiot whilst outing yourself as one later bbz.

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You have no claims besides "ohmigaw its sooo iconic !!!" which is a bad claim when talking about a sheath lol

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

Gotta disagree with you there. Particularly this side of the world. Even with the new Dissidia featuring the original as default, he'll still appearing in the Advent Children garb more often.

As for the post being idiotic, you're being overly harsh. One (or two) people wanting to alter an iconic costume is not worth the manpower required to add a toggle, nor for the extra client resources it'll require in terms of asset layers in a game already pushing it's resource limits on *cough* certain platforms.

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Was rather referring to him just being outright against it.You get the costume as a reward. Doesnt necessarily mean it should change to please the minority, but as an option for something very minimal to the costume (iconic or not) it wouldnt be a far stretch to do.
Variety goes a long way

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

Gotta disagree with you there. Particularly this side of the world. Even with the new Dissidia featuring the original as default, he'll still appearing in the Advent Children garb more often.

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If I may intervene on this, his Advent Children outfit was in Dissidia, and apparently from this video, the weapon rack is nowhere to be seen on the vest. So I would argue that the weapon rack is hardly iconic, otherwise Dissidia cut out an absolutely crucial piece of Cloud's outfit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14UGsu0y1CI

Whether the sheaths are iconic or not is up for debate. (My vote would be "not" since they're just an Advent Children thing.) But regardless, they're clearly not part of the vest. They're part of the swords they're designed to hold. If we don't get the arsenal of swords, then we shouldn't get that odd piece of it attached to an unrelated vest. An empty sheath (let alone an empty multi-sheath thing) is just weird.

I do, however, agree with Bhuni on one point. An on/off toggle for this one item when no other chest slot items have such a toggle would not be an effortless feature to add, and probably not worthwhile unless there was a wide range of such items with parts to toggle on/off.

I just find it odd that those sheaths were included in the first place.

I don't even remember if cloud used that holster for the entire movie. (except for one sword)

Acceptable solution: Make it a toggle.

As someone has mentioned before. It's not really an iconic part of the outfit, because they ditch it altogether in his Dissidia costume.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

If I may intervene on this, his Advent Children outfit was in Dissidia <snip>

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Wrong Dissidia.

As for it not being in a six year old PSP game? Uh... it's a PSP game.

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Originally Posted by Bhuni

The sheathes are apart of the costume therefore they are iconic, it bugs me because people think they're entitled to having past Final Fantasy characters costumes changed to suit their needs.

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Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

This post is pure idiocy. It would be effortless to simply add a on/off feature to the ugly sheath.

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Originally Posted by Bhuni

All you brought to this thread is pure ignorance and calling me an idiot whilst outing yourself as one later bbz.

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You two are fighting like grade schoolers. Breath in and out a few times before you post again. Adults keep cool when they're disagreeing with someone, children do not. You aren't children.

Now, Cloud doesn't wear the sheath in every scene during Advent Children.

Sheath On: http://s18.postimg.org/69rhdf4dl/Cloud_AC2.jpg

Sheath Off: http://s2.postimg.org/mzefev4vt/Cloud_AC1.jpg

Nor does he wear it in Kingdom Hearts.

http://s23.postimg.org/qzfx5xs4b/Cloud_KH.jpg

So iconic or not, there is precedent for the outfit appearing without a sheath so its not unreasonable to want it. That said, it would mean work and resources to create a 2nd, augmented version, of the vest. Resources SE might choose to spend elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

Wrong Dissidia.

As for it not being in a six year old PSP game? Uh... it's a PSP game.

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Semantics. He doesn't have the weapon rack in any Dissidia game.

The first link was the original Dissidia.

Here's Duodecim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwC3Y9fodJY

And here's the Arcade/PS4 version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O97LK_QQpBo

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

Nor does he wear it in Kingdom Hearts.

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...a PS2 game.

Because they had the polys to spare back then, righty? *rolls eyes* Skipping posts with counter arguments is pretty lame.

As for those screengrabs - of course he doesn't have the sheath in the second, he's just respawned from the lifestream again?

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Semantics.

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Why? They didn't have the poly count for that kind of detail in the PS2/PSP era, and the costume isn't even in the new game yet? (At least it wasn't the last time I played it, and I don't see it in the footage you linked.)

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

Why? They didn't have the poly count for that kind of detail in the PS2/PSP era, and the costume isn't even in the new game yet? (At least it wasn't the last time I played it, and I don't see it in the footage you linked.)

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I've showed you three examples of where it doesn't exist. Someone else showed you two examples--including the only known appearance of the weapon rack--where it doesn't exist.

Hell, here's a screenshot of G-Bike for Mobile. Where it also doesn't exist.

http://i2.cdnds.net/14/24/618x347/ga...reenshot-1.jpg

What the hell do you want from me? Show me a source outside of FFXIV and Advent Children where Cloud has the weapon rack, please. Because I'm coming up with squat.

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

...a PS2 game.

Because they had the polys to spare back then, righty? *rolls eyes* Skipping posts with counter arguments is pretty lame.

As for those screengrabs - of course he doesn't have the sheath in the second, he's just respawned from the lifestream again?

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My apologies, when I was composing the post you hadn't yet posted your counter arguments. It took awhile to capture the screen grabs, crop them, and host them .

As for your first argument, saving polygons might be the reason why it wasn't included, but it doesn't change the fact that he wasn't wearing the sheath. If he wasn't wearing it in one game, it sets the precedent for the outfit to appear without it in another, regardless of whether polygons still need to be saved. It isn't intrinsic to the outfit, so the outfit can exist either with it or without it (for another example, a lot of figurines of Cloud in that outfit don't include the sheath).

And for your second argument, I'll be honest, I don't remember the circumstances surrounding the screenshot I posted. Is there something in particular that happened that would result in him not wearing a sheath, but keep his clothes and motorcycle intact?

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Semantics. He doesn't have the weapon rack in any Dissidia game.

The first link was the original Dissidia.

And here's the Arcade/PS4 version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O97LK_QQpBo

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http://i2.cdnds.net/14/24/618x347/ga...reenshot-1.jpg

What the hell do you want from me? Show me a source outside of FFXIV and Advent Children where Cloud has the weapon rack, please. Because I'm coming up with squat.

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The problem with these two examples is that it isn't the outfit in question. Those are both variations of his original clothes from FFVII (which never had a sheath), the outfit with the sheath attached being discussed are his clothes from Advent Children.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Hell, here's a screenshot of G-Bike for Mobile. Where it also doesn't exist.

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Which would be because that's not the Advent Children outfit?

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

And for your second argument, I'll be honest, I don't remember the circumstances surrounding the screenshot I posted. Is there something in particular that happened that would result in him not wearing a sheath, but keep his clothes and motorcycle intact?

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My bad - I saw the green and thought that was from the pool sequence at the end. It's not, it's outside Aerith's church, in the Denzel flashback. He doesn't have it on, or the shot with Denzel cuddled up behind him on Fenrir wouldn't work.

He also doesn't need the sheath at this point, either - the swords are stored in Fenrir, and he's a delivery boy circa this point in time.

As for this endless debate about what the outfit entails - go look up the Play Arts KAI range figure of Cloud on the Square Enix store. That's the definition of this look for him, as it is with every other figure in the range. No details missed out, no feature too small - the KAI range mo.

I really wish it did not have the holster on the back it feels so out of place for many jobs

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Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

Yes, it would infact be effortless.Pure idiocy because you are against a very minimal part of a costume being able to be toggled off when said part causes clipping and generally looks bad.

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I dont think you understand the term "effortless", friend.

But yes, I agree with the OP - it would be nice to be able to hide the sheaths. I glamour this onto a lot of my sets even Mages and it looks silly. Doesn't deter me from rocking it either way.

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

As for this endless debate about what the outfit entails - go look up the Play Arts KAI range figure of Cloud on the Square Enix store. That's the definition of this look for him, as it is with every other figure in the range. No details missed out, no feature too small - the KAI range mo.

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Well clearly they left in too many details, because the left sleeve is missing from the FFXIV version. Not to mention that the only reason the weapon rack is there in the first place is to sheathe all of those swords that come with the figure. So if we're going to continue seeing the weapon rack, then I demand that all six swords be sheathed on the outfit.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

~then I demand that all six swords be sheathed on the outfit.

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Pretty much sums the entire mood up, lol.

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

As for this endless debate about what the outfit entails - go look up the Play Arts KAI range figure of Cloud on the Square Enix store. That's the definition of this look for him, as it is with every other figure in the range. No details missed out, no feature too small - the KAI range mo.

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So... You mean that instead of asking for a possibility to not have those empty holsters/sheaths/scabbards/whatchamacallits on our backs, we should ask to get them filled with weapons?

https://store.eu.square-enix.com/eme...rife800_02.jpg
https://www.bigbadtoystore.com/image...e/SEP10511.jpg

Sure thing =D

The problem is... those sheaths really don't serve any purpose (other than clipping/being in the way) when we can't use them for anything. A scabbard/sheath/holster is there for the sole purpose of storing a weapon in it when you don't use said weapon. The garment in itself is good, but those scabbard thingies make it very difficult (at least for me, and probably other people as well) to fit it into a glamour outfit. ^^;

Is this easy or is it not? From a game developer's perspective (ie; me)

If the rest of the body has an ambient occlusion pass baked in to indicate the shadows from the holsters, then it could be an issue, otherwise, if they just remove the sheathes, it shouldn't be a problem visually; there just wouldn't be polys that show that part of the map.

The other question is if the sheath verts are tied in to the main rigging (which is likely the case), and therefore, the verts are weighted to the animation. It can be problematic with blend weights (ie; broken animations/rigging) when vertices that are expected to be there suddenly aren't. Although, game engines nowadays are able to take existing animations and apply them to newer models, so this point may be moot.

One thing they COULD do though, potentially, is make a new texture file that has the sheaths textured as an alpha. Then they wouldn't render, but the verts would still be there. This shouldn't take too much effort, as professional texture map files are made so that all the bits and pieces are easily identifiable and seperated by layers/folders in the photoshop doc. This would be an easy (but kinda hacky) fix. The new item would just need a new item ID to be put into the game database (non-issue).

It would still need to be bug-tested before released, they probably have their own in-house determination scale on how much bug-testing new equipment requires, potentially it could be less because it's simply a modification to an already existing game asset.

Edit: Actually, a lot of the armor sets get re-used by utilizing the alpha method already. The skirt-type for example, I assume all use the same "skirt" mesh (this technique was used constantly in XI, as well as XIV). The behavior for all skirt animations are already in there, it's just a matter of baking down all the information from the newly designed armor (normal maps/texture/ambient/etc), which then dictates where the alpha "pokes" holes through the skirt (like instead of the front of a skirt, one asset might have it open with belts going across).

This is not an uncommon way to be efficient on asset use, and normal maps help indicate form where it should be flat, versus having actual polygon geometry.

Is it easy? It sure seems like it to me. But time taken to do this takes away time doing something else, and as hard pressed as SE's crew is on time trying to please everyone and create all this content, it's more stuff on top of the pile at the end of the day.

The sheath swings empty in the breeze and serves no purpose like a freshly neutered dog's scrot. It should have never been a part of the vest if it wasn't going to include the sword(s). They removed the sheath from Lightning's Guardian Corps. outfit for the very same reason: it would have just flapped around lamely because we have nothing that would "sheath" in it (and it was probably a nightmare to animate properly anyway) and having the Blaze Edge as an actual weapon meant they couldn't have the handle sticking out as part of the model either.