SMN Feels Underwhelming?

I've been playing SMN more often lately, over my usual AST due to queue times being better on DPS at certain times of the day, and I've started to get annoyed about something regarding the job: Dreadwyrm Trance feels overly underwhelming.

I don't mean that it's weak mechanically. I love the skill itself, even if the duration feels short, it's an amazing skill that ends in a satisfying Deathflare. But if there's one complaint I have, if anything, the aesthetics feel bland and weak. Not the opening animation, but the fact that there is no aura or anything while you have Dreadwyrm Trance on.

Why don't we have anything like the wrath glow on the WAR? How about a Bahamut halo over our heads while we're trancing? Anything to make us feel badass past the 1 second animation.

Am I the only one who feels this way? Is this too minor of a gripe? I'd figure it's an easy fix, as it's not even a balance fix involved, just an addition of a minor animation.

bahamuuut........bahamuuuutttttt.........BAHAMUT!

Most Summoner players have felt underwhelmed and inadequate since Egi's were first shown. :P

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Originally Posted by Vateri

Most Summoner players have felt underwhelmed and inadequate since Egi's were first shown. :P

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This lol. It doesn't feel like a pet class and the egis are very underwhelming. Just my opinion :p

I leveled to 60 and all I got was this lousy bust over my head:

http://en.ff14housing.com/images/pic...cae81_img1.jpg

Yeah, would have been great if the Dreadwyrm trance had a continuous aura of Bahamut's head(?) as long as the trance is still active. They do it for the MNK and WAR, so why not SMNs too? Would have really given a nice aesthetic/ "fierce" look to SMN in that trance IMO

Dreadwrym Trance just needs a fiery blue aura that surronds the playe during the duration of the trance.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

This lol. It doesn't feel like a pet class and the egis are very underwhelming. Just my opinion :p

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lol. Aside from fundamental redesign changes I mean XD
I just hate how it's such an important ability based around getting a bunch of stacks, but there's no visual indicator that you have it, other than the buff icon. I just want a "Look at me! In a few seconds, I'm gonna nuke the boss, so watch out, and hit record on fraps as a memory!"

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hp...97878326_n.jpg
Would be nice if we can have the aura so long as we're in the trance ... but probably make it more subtle

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Dreadwrym Trance just needs a fiery blue aura that surronds the playe during the duration of the trance.

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yeah i would like a blue aura more than Bahamuts head... awesome would be a floating stance too... we already "fly" by activating the trance why not floating as long as the duration goes on? :3

It'd look better than darkside at the very least.

Or scrap the current setup and get rid of the egi and mayhaps replace it with something like this

** Have us build up a "summoning stack" thing based on the element of the spell used (crazy how it's kinda like trance stacks)
** Stack can be used to summon the corresponding elements primal for ~15-25 seconds(*)
** More than minimum stacks extends duration?

(*) I feel that would lead to a truer representation of what summoner was from previous games and should be, which is a bada** full fledged primal popping up and doing massive amounts of damage to the enemy. While we're at it why not add back in the elemental wheel for all classes (enfire anyone?); wait that's too complicated for "new generation" gamers.

They could give us the blue aura from the 1st second (without the bahamut head) + the wings that you see when we use LB3, that would be EPIC

It'd be cool if they got some kind of aura while in DT.

+1

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Originally Posted by newb

I feel that would lead to a truer representation of what summoner was from previous games and should be, which is a bada** full fledged primal popping up and doing massive amounts of damage to the enemy.

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hmm interessting thoughts... but than they should have overdrive-skills like in FFX :3
This way around they easily could add all those missing primals like Ramuh, Levi, Odin, etc. ^^

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Originally Posted by Pyroclastic

They could give us the blue aura + the wings that you see when we use LB3, that would be EPIC

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oh yeah the lb3 animation is awesome – i have a fun macro using the wings from the wedding + Deathflare just because of it :p im just sad that those items cant be bought or refilled somehow... i only have 65/99 left : /

But than again if they would add those wings... what would lb3 look like to stay on top?... hmm...

Ah yea, those wings are really nice. That is an effect I would love. Wings while trancing, and maybe float in the air too. It would really make it look as epic as it feels.

Personally I love having the Egi as permanent pets, they just need a redesign, or at least a more polished design.

Also I think all of SMN's abilities should have been focused almost fully on the Egi. Of course there have been valid point's why this would be problematic, but I think that only brings to light that perhaps SMN should have been implemented with a completely different play style. For example all of SMN's abilities could have been based on Primal Aether. When the SMN executes one of these abilities an Egi is summoned instantly and does the attack executed (Ifrit comes in and does Flaming Crush or Radiant Shield) the Egi will then stay summoned until the SMN uses a Primal Aether ability of a different element (Aerial Slash) which would instantly summon a different Egi (Garuda).

So it would kinda play like Yuna from Dissidia except the Egi stay permanently summoned as a nice visual, but do not auto attack as all Egi attacks are linked to the Primal Aether attacks on the hotbar, essentially making the Egi nothing more then a magical visual effect that follows you around.

I feel like the DRG aura should have been the Dreadwyrm aura. It feels strange that they are the ones summoning dragons (on LB3) and auras instead of us. I think the dreadwyrms stacks should give us some aura and increase as it goes to 3, like GL and AF so we can have an actual visual indication of it.

i agree with adding aura but definitely not blue again lol
BoTD and GL aura are already blue-ish

The Egis are underwhelming and should go. SE based the Summoner around the Evoker/Caller version rather elemental/conjurization. The difference between the two is Ekover/Caller involve invoking the power of a God/Demigod and calling them and the other is a Healer that can conjure a God/Demigod.
- Have Summoner build up Invocation stacks and once we get 3 we Evoke the Power of the 1 of the 6 Primals of ur choosing and gain their abilities.
- Have Sunmoner build Caller stacks and Summon Hydaelyn to do Hyper Nova

Unless if SE decides to do a complete revamp of SMN, the closest thing we'll ever get is some sort of cross between the SCH's Dissipate, and the BRD's Wanderer's Minuet. Summon an Egi, dissipate for a bonus, resummon, do it again. Either that or an ability to turn the Egi into a fount of power or something. Like a static totem that anyone close to it gains some sort of buff, or just the SMN like with BLM's Ley Lines. SE seems to hate the idea of removing skills and features of a job, so even when 4.0 comes around, I doubt Egis'll go, regardless of how useless they become other than another sustained dot.

Wow, how'd a thread about a visual change turn into one about job revamp that isn't going to come for years?

I like the pets the way they are - except for the visuals. They look rather pathetic.

I like the smn changes and while a continous aura would be cool, the job is great and unique. I love the slight complexity it has.

Been SMN sense the start of game and love it. 3.0 even better with trance.
Dam is not issue as I'm top dps in A1, and A2 savage in my static.
So think they are fine where they are.

I like the smn changes and while a continous aura would be cool, the job is great and unique. I love the slight complexity it has.

Personally I do not find the class itself underwhelming, Im enjoying it. The egi on the other hand are. People have been saying that from the begining. Im not holding my breath on any more revamps. If they wanted to change pets up they would have when they changed the smn job imo.

Well I honestly hate trance as a whole. FFXIV SMN was a DoT/Pet class and 3.0 changed it to some hybrid nuker thing. I don't feel like I'm summoning anything with dreadwrym trance, just lower my mp cost on ruin 3 and the ability to cast another nuke. Heavensward didn't fix the over all design flaws of Egi nor did it actually add anything new in the DoTs, just fixed things we found wrong 2 years ago. Honestly I think SE listened to the wrong people and those same people are still complaining.

Before you ask, I have been playing other jobs looking for something I like.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Well I honestly hate trance as a whole. FFXIV SMN was a DoT/Pet class and 3.0 changed it to some hybrid nuker thing. I don't feel like I'm summoning anything with dreadwrym trance, just lower my mp cost on ruin 3 and the ability to cast another nuke. Heavensward didn't fix the over all design flaws of Egi nor did it actually add anything new in the DoTs, just fixed things we found wrong 2 years ago. Honestly I think SE listened to the wrong people and those same people are still complaining.

Before you ask, I have been playing other jobs looking for something I like.

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I kinda get what you mean. I do like Dreadwyrm Trance, but it could have been implemented in a slightly better way (SMN in general could have been implemented in a better way tbh) That's not to say SMN is broken in any way, it works and is pretty enjoyable to play for me. However it is not indicative of what makes a SMN, a SMN in all honesty. A play style like Yuna from Dissidia would have been the perfect way to go with SMN if you ask me.

Since 4.0 level cap will be 70 and we will be at lvl 70 for a while the last ability we get will have to be over the top and awesome. The next spell lines we get will all have to be epic since thats the last time there adding any new mechanics for a while. The only way to make it feel like we are summoning something is if we were summoning Hydaelyn and The Twelve which are the only deities they'll let us summon because of Lore.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Since 4.0 level cap will be 70 and we will be at lvl 70 for a while the last ability we get will have to be over the top and awesome. The next spell lines we get will all have to be epic since thats the last time there adding any new mechanics for a while. The only way to make it feel like we are summoning something is if we were summoning Hydaelyn and The Twelve which are the only deities they'll let us summon because of Lore.

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Trance was your idea because you wanted to be a primal and nuke like Bahamut. That isn't good enough?

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Trance was your idea because you wanted to be a primal and nuke like Bahamut. That isn't good enough?

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Since SE used my idea for the Heavensward Expanison maybe they'll use another one of my ideas for 4.0. I will say I told you so when SE gives Summoner a new form of summoning which allows us to summon Hydaelyn and the Twelve.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Since SE used my idea for the Heavensward Expanison maybe they'll use another one of my ideas for 4.0. I will say I told you so when SE gives Summoner a new form of summoning which allows us to summon Hydaelyn and the Twelve.

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Not to sound cheeky but I think it's more likely SE had Dreadwyrm Trance in the works before you or I even picked up on the idea of Primal fusions. SE start developing content at least one year ahead of schedule after all. So development of this would have started before Dreams of Ice was released, which was when we first learnt Iceheart could fuse with Shiva's Aether. So it wasn't really your idea it was the devs, but anyways that's neither here nor there.

I wouldn't be against the idea of an ability that summoned a portion of Hydaelyn or the Twelve. However these are entities that are directly linked to the Warrior of Light, not just Summoners. Which would suggest if a Summoner can call forth Hydaelyn/The Twelve, then all of the other jobs would need to be able to use their power/essence also in some way. Which would be kinda lame I feel as every jobs new abilities would all look the same practically.

SMN kind of feels underwhelming in terms of abilities but I can't argue with the effectiveness of them. No one quite wipes out crowds like a SMN can.

Do I still want to summon a full primal like Shiva (story reasons preventing that, get out of here!) or have the abilities feel better in general? Sure.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

SMN kind of feels underwhelming in terms of abilities but I can't argue with the effectiveness of them. No one quite wipes out crowds like a SMN can.

Do I still want to summon a full primal like Shiva (story reasons preventing that, get out of here!) or have the abilities feel better in general? Sure.

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Pretty sure just about anyone can summon Primals in this game since its common place so thats part of the reason why Summoners don't summon primals.

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Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

Not to sound cheeky but I think it's more likely SE had Dreadwyrm Trance in the works before you or I even picked up on the idea of Primal fusions. SE start developing content at least one year ahead of schedule after all. So development of this would have started before Dreams of Ice was released, which was when we first learnt Iceheart could fuse with Shiva's Aether. So it wasn't really your idea it was the devs, but anyways that's neither here nor there.

I wouldn't be against the idea of an ability that summoned a portion of Hydaelyn or the Twelve. However these are entities that are directly linked to the Warrior of Light, not just Summoners. Which would suggest if a Summoner can call forth Hydaelyn/The Twelve, then all of the other jobs would need to be able to use their power/essence also in some way. Which would be kinda lame I feel as every jobs new abilities would all look the same practically.

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Even though Hydaelyn/The Twelve are directly linked to the Warrior of Light other jobs still wouldn't be able to use their power/essence like the Summoner since they haven't learned the Summoning Art. If Summoner did call forth Hydaelyn/The Twleve based on lore other jobs will get goddess/god form.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Even though Hydaelyn/The Twelve are directly linked to the Warrior of Light other jobs still wouldn't be able to use their power/essence like the Summoner since they haven't learned the Summoning Art. If Summoner did call forth Hydaelyn/The Twleve based on lore other jobs will get goddess/god form.

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Oh yeah for SMN it would be some form of Egi, or slightly larger Summon. SCH would need something too of course though, they would need some form a third Summon of the same caliber due to their Arcanist roots. Though with all the other jobs just getting God/Goddess forms that seems like a bit of a cop out to me. Each job would need unique abilities that utilize the power of Hydaelyn/The Twelve in order for it to be fair and not reductive.

Though honestly, these seem like the kind of abilities you would get at the final level cap (lvl99+) If you have the power of Hydaelyn/The Twelve which are essentially the ultimate powers that be, then there would be no real need for any more new abilities, as nothing would ever surpass them. So although I'm not against the idea per say, I think it's better saved for the right moment, should SE be planning such a thing.

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Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

Oh yeah for SMN it would be some form of Egi, or slightly larger Summon. SCH would need something too of course though, they would need some form a third Summon of the same caliber due to their Arcanist roots. Though with all the other jobs just getting God/Goddess forms that seems like a bit of a cop out to me. Each job would need unique abilities that utilize the power of Hydaelyn/The Twelve in order for it to be fair and not reductive.

Though honestly, these seem like the kind of abilities you would get at the final level cap (lvl99+) If you have the power of Hydaelyn/The Twelve which are essentially the ultimate powers that be, then there would be no real need for any more new abilities, as nothing would ever surpass them. So although I'm not against the idea per say, I think it's better saved for the right moment, should SE be planning such a thing.

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Its hard to imagne a better ability then Dreadwyrm Trance becasue that gave us the power of Bahamut. Its already explained by SE that giving Summoner a larger Egi or another Summon won't add anything. Summoning is also commplace now since the Primals aren't summons at all but desires of the people given shape by Aether.

Storywise in 2.3 Zodiark is starting to awake beacue Hydaelyn is getting weaker. Now that the Warrior of Darkness has come Zodiark will be fully awake by 3.3 and by the end of the 3.xxxxx series be summoned in humanoid form by the Ascians since the Warrior of Light will be ultimately defeated and Hydaelyn will be near death. Lorewise it'll make sense for Summoner to call forth Hydaelyn/The Twelve if that scenario happens. Level 70 is the last time they will add new abilities that add a new mechanic so it'll be ultimate abilities for every job while level 71-99 will be just upgrading existing abilities and adding traits.

The most I can think of is that we'll get more Bahamut-like spells for dreadwyrm trance since we it seems we'll be very tied to Bahamut.

That and due to ability bloat I don't think we'll 5 abilities ... but I guess we'll find out next expansion. With Pet glamours then perhaps it wont be necessary to have new egis.

I think we will get 5 new abilities next expansion then 5.0 onwards will be upgardes to existing skill and new traits since with a 99 level cap MMO's tend to give all of the abilities a job will ever have at 70.

So I feel weird posting about this given that I have yet to get a class to max level but I guess that shouldn't necessarily invalidate my opinion. :p I also felt like SMN was a bit underwhelming when I found out you only got the three Egis and that one wasn't even that used outside of a solo setting. Now I do enjoy the rotation (although I do wish the pets were a little more involved) but I miss having all the summoners be relevant. One solution that I've been sort of enamored with was to actually bring back elemental weaknesses. Now, I know, the system sucked in the original FFXIV and, let's be frank, in FFXI as well. But, there are fun aspects of having elemental weaknesses too and maybe getting rid of it completely was throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[Sorry this is a long post, continued in next post...]
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The way that I would see it working for SMN is like this:

-You have a monster that is weak to a specific element. This weakness is indicated by an icon or colored dot or something similar next to it's name. No pointless scan ability or looking up weakness charts.

-You take out the pet of the element the monster is weak to, e.g. Garuda for wind, and that changes your DoTs to deal wind aspected damage. It would be nice if it changed the spell names from like Ruin to Choke (a la the FFXI debuffs) and the visuals but that's not necessary.

-The DoT damage is then affected by a damage multiplier >1, that would be tuned obviously to keep it in line with classes that don't deal aspected damage. This would be the primary impetus for using one pet over another.

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