NIN Skill speed and you

Ill start by saying ive been seeing a lot of misconceptions going around saying that skillspeed is a terrible stat and it takes hundreds of it just to reduce your global by .01, and Im here to clarify

Im currently running a skillspeed heavy NIN build, and as many other ninja will find, most of your gear will have rather large amounts of skill speed on it, but im here to say what nobody wants to hear. Skillspeed isnt all that bad. In Heavensward stat weights changed, changing the meta mostly to ACC>ilvl>secondaries, but for ninja, skillspeed, id say, is most likely still a pretty viable weight. I'm sitting at 793 skillspeed and I'm finding that roughly 25 skillspeed is .01s on the global. That means at around 720 or so skillspeed with huton, you will break the 2.00s global. lets compare that to a dragoons 2.40s global and we will find that in 3 minutes, we will execute about 15 more globals than a dragoon with their optimal skillspeed stat. Since NIN stat weights are not currently out, i cannot say that skillspeed is the best stat, hell, im not even going to say its good, but i will say that its effect is not negligible to NIN. What do you guys think?

I'm pretty sure that most people that say SS is bad on NIN aren't saying it from a "it takes too much" standpoint, but more a "It just makes it that much faster to run out of TP" standpoint.

Could be wrong, but that's what I tend to see.

Currently, NIN runs out of tp fast, regardless of your build, thats just gonna be a problem that square either fixes or ignores. there arent too many fights (while it def is a very big problem) that stretch your TP THAT much. AS2 comes to mind, but coupled with NINs trash aoe, theres no reason your nin shouldnt be in the gob for that fight.

Ya its a tp issue, but also a mudra lag issue, too much skill speed coupled with mudra lag means you cant cast raiton at all basicly and suiton becomes a pain. couple of months after launch i was in a deep sks set, ever since i droped it and det for more crit, my dps skyrocket.

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Originally Posted by Mystina

Ya its a tp issue, but also a mudra lag issue, too much skill speed coupled with mudra lag means you cant cast raiton at all basicly and suiton becomes a pain. couple of months after launch i was in a deep sks set, ever since i droped it and det for more crit, my dps skyrocket.

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its p much impossible at any lategame scenario to drop sks and det for crit, most of your bis has ss and no crit on it. its pretty hard drop any secondary in favor of another, that along with the fact that we can force crit and negate crits on our two hardest hitters, kassatsu and duality, unless crit has some massive weights, i cant imagine your dps skyrocketed at all. its also worth noting we already get a flat 25% from IR AND a dragoons battle litany. dont take my numbers as fact here but the difference between a 2.05 gcd and a 2.00 gcd in 3 mins is about 3 globals, which at maximum, is around 90 net tp loss. 90 tp can easily be regained if you have a good mch or brd (or even a unlucky ast). 3 globals can be 500+ to 750+ potency depending on the combo used. i would think crit is too rng for it to keep up with that kinda solid potency at the cost of 90 more tp

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Originally Posted by Kaisersoke

its p much impossible at any lategame scenario to drop sks and det for crit, most of your bis has ss and no crit on it. its pretty hard drop any secondary in favor of another, that along with the fact that we can force crit and negate crits on our two hardest hitters, kassatsu and duality, unless crit has some massive weights, i cant imagine your dps skyrocketed at all. its also worth noting we already get a flat 25% from IR AND a dragoons battle litany. dont take my numbers as fact here but the difference between a 2.05 gcd and a 2.00 gcd in 3 mins is about 3 globals, which at maximum, is around 90 net tp loss. 90 tp can easily be regained if you have a good mch or brd (or even a unlucky ast). 3 globals can be 500+ to 750+ potency depending on the combo used. i would think crit is too rng for it to keep up with that kinda solid potency at the cost of 90 more tp

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I don't know your BiS list, but what's currently considered BiS for Nin has like 750 to 800 Vrit and very little SkS.

also; skillspeed doesnt affect mudra, if you cannot cast raiton or suiton that is actual lag, or user error. i cast raiton perfectly fine every mudra

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

I don't know your BiS list, but what's currently considered BiS for Nin has like 750 to 800 Vrit and very little SkS.

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please provide your source

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Originally Posted by Kaisersoke

also; skillspeed doesnt affect mudra, if you cannot cast raiton or suiton that is actual lag, or user error. i cast raiton perfectly fine every mudra

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Skillspeed does affect mudra in the sense that you will GCD clip more often the faster your GCD is from skillspeed, which, I believe, is the point they were getting at. You may be casting raiton "fine" but you are clipping.

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Originally Posted by Kaisersoke

please provide your source

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http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/RHY6

I'll correct myself, it's a whopping 966 Crit.

Edit: MrCookTM beat me to it.

There's a couple posted in this thread;

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...S-for-end-game

The second one has 1 less primary stat but boasts an insane 966 Crit at 428 Skillspeed, (640 accuracy).

The problem with skillspeed besides TP, is that your GCD is so fast you end up clipping during mudras because the GCD has already reset before you could finish, slightly reducing the potential gain you get from the faster GCD. Basically you're reducing the window for executing ninjutsu, which should happen before the GCD resets.

I guess the question becomes "how many extra GCD's do you gain with high SkS within a specific duration in relation to phases (phases divided by jumps etc) in specific fights?" If the increased number of GCD potency outweighs the potential potency lost from a crit/det weighted build, then I could see how that could be merited.

It's the same amount of primary stat, just a different race. ;)

For sure, people who can Raiton consistently will despise Skill Speed, while those who are doomed to Shuriken (like myself) will find it more appealing.

2.00 GCD on NIN will definitely let you dry in about 2:49mins... 2.10 GCDs allows you one whole more minute of battle.
This considering there were no downtimes or need to separate from the boss (read 24-man raids)

Each GCD tick down from Skill Speed happens every 26 or 27 points btw :v

Im still curious on just how fast 1k Sks is like tho... around 1.93 GCD.

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

For sure, people who can Raiton consistently will despise Skill Speed, while those who are doomed to Shuriken (like myself) will find it more appealing.

-snip-

Im still curious on just how fast 1k Sks is like tho... around 1.93 GCD.

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I don't even like SS while using Fuma, since the single Mudra means you already blow through TP faster before you consider your SS.

As for the 1.93 GCD...it's ridiculous I would imagine. Not long after I hit 60 and had a stupid amount of SS, I did something at level 50, and since the conversion rates aren't quite the same, I ended up at 1.95 or so. I felt like I was bleeding TP.

Yea, not recommending it, but just curious to see it for myself, personal project XP
Different strokes for different people, regarding Skill Speed and Mudras, thats for sure.

Every stat weight test I've seen has SS rated the lowest weight of all secondaries, more specifically Crit > Det > SS. This doesn't mean SS is bad per se, but rather it is good within certain ranges due to TP and lag. The other thing about SS is that it exacerbates the TP issue which means limited returns after a certain point. It also inflates the issue of mudra delay (if you are clipping gcds with mudras then your SS is providing further diminished returns with every clip.) Depending on the amount of clipping, a few clipped mudras could very well negate any return from SS in harsher circumstances.

I think SS is a stat that should be stacked to a certain point and then avoided after that point. Like setting the temperature on an oven. There is a range of higher returns and anything above an below that range is diminished. Due to the nature and inconsistency of mudra lag this could vary widely from person to person but as a rule of thumb if you have a lower ping that range would be higher than someone who has a lower ping.

Current tested stat weights (Provided and tested by Dervy)

Dragoon:

WD: 10.625
STR: 1.000
DET: 0.139
CRT: 0.162
SS: 0.104

Monk:

WD: 10.714
STR: 1.000
DET: 0.139
CRT: 0.167
SS: 0.116

Bard:

WD: 11.602
DEX: 1.000
DET: 0.140
CRT: 0.224
SS: 0.111

Source:
https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/

Another interesting detail is that currently we are at i210 max and Sks can already reach over the 1k mark if you are to focus on it... whilst avoiding it makes something around the 470 or so... we aren't even at patch 3.1.

I wouldn't be surprised if at this pace by the time we reach the patch 3.5 or something alike, we might be dealing with i250~i270 with a range for Sks of 500~1500... we'll see.

Dante is right about the Sks builds tho, like Accuracy, in which you need a minimal for the current end game, Skill Speed for your build can also be formulated as "this is as much as I need".

As a rule of thumb and due to the nature of only having one competing set of like ilvl items that are 210 (upgraded esos vs savage gordian), min maxing will really only apply to these two sets outside of relative accuracy cap compensation. Basically you should almost always be going with the higher ilvl item unless it drops you below accuracy cap as I have yet to see any piece of equipment of a lower level have a secondary cap that exceeds the main stat increase of the higher ilvl item. Once you start having to choose which 210 piece you want (from 2) to equip then secondaries will hold a larger relative value in gear choice but as of right now you should be just doing vertical progression due to the increased weight of main stats.

I'm banking on the Void ark dropping 200 ilvl gear and if it does then you will be able to min/max between antiquated eso gear and that set but unless you have full sets of 210 gear you should just keep going with higher ilvl relative to accuracy cap.

As someone who can't raid thats one pipe dream there.

So Im just going up to i200 on whatever I can but keeping the i190 pieces to play around later on :v

#SadLife:(

i know we auto crit on kasatsu and duality sucks overall, but the sheer amount of crits i see is preaty insane, and i occationaly raid with a drg so its even beter. if they ever fix our tp issues we might see sks a bit more acctractive but with mudra lag, im not sure. my real issue atm is acc @@ im only at 560 w/o food atm >.<

Critical Hit Rate also increases critical hit damage as well fyi.

yeah! seen a few 9k trick attacks with a drg in group, good feeling XD