Why do Ninja and Monk use different gear?

1) STR does nothing for Ninja. DEX does nothing for Monk.
2) They already just use recolors of the same set.
3) Pre-ninja monk gear had dexterity added to it too.


It just feels kinda stupid that melee DPS items make up like 40% of the drop pool. Ideally they'd shove dragoon on a set with someone else as well, but they probably don't want to give them tank defense.

tank
healer
caster
ranger
ninja
dragoon
monk

This is lame.

You're right.. it should be
everyone separated

So my glamours don't interfere with each other.

Origionally they were suppose to, and ninja was suppose to use str as it's main dmg stat. However, devs saw debates about if ninja would be str or dex based and decided to change them at the last min to a dex based melee dps. You can see this in that for all post 50 gear ninja can wear from before they were added, is shared with mnk.

we don't need 4 dex users that's why...

nin brd mch dex

drg, mnk str,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adventica6

we don't need 4 dex users that's why...

nin brd mch dex

drg, mnk str,

---

That's only three though. Gear sets right now could easily be

Tank
Healer
Ranged
Caster
Mnk/Nin
Drg

That still leaves dragoon alone, but at least monk and ninja can be combined without changing much of anything. Just make sure the next class that's introduced uses DRG gear.

Gonna be funny in 4.0...

Tank- PLD/WAR/DRK
Healer- WHM/SCH/AST
Tanklike- DRG/SAM?
STR Melee- MNK/SAM?
DEX Melee- NIN/RDM?
INT Melee?- RDM?
DEX Ranged- BRD/MCH
Caster- SMN/BLM

Really though they need to better consolidate the DPS drops, since DEX is useless to DRG/MNK and STR useless to NIN/BRD/MCH, they technically could do just 4 sets (Tank, Healer, Caster, PhysicalDPS)... aside from oddball DRG and it's Phys/Mag defenses so different...

I think I'd be slightly more tolerant of Jobs effectively getting the exact same gear but not if we had secondary stats again... In 1.23 you didn't just have on stat determining your damage, you had two, and I think that creates an interesting dynamic for gear... Doesn't even needs to be damage related, directly. Look at Paladin, Warrior, and Dark Knight. All three use Vitality, obviously. Paladin should have some use of White Magic (I know it doesn't, unless you count Stoneskin and Clemency), so Mind should be appropriate. Dark Knight uses by far the most MP, so Piety works there. Warrior has always been the tank closest to a DPS, so Strength works there. Can apply that to a few others fairly easily too; Bard needs MP, here's some Piety. Ninjutsu and Intelligence? Monk has always traditionally had a lot of HP, so Vitality actually works there, even if it could be functionally redundant. Would of course be easier if we gained some missing stats, I certainly miss Agility and Charisma (which could work as a stat/support type stat). Granted, I don't think many are happy with AF2 locking out their ability to gear all the tanks in one go, but were it up to me each Job would have its own lock out anyway... Then I have as much content as I want, rather than a single pathetic 450 cap a week...

Pretty disappointed with the additional stats as well, although I hope Heavensward changed that a bit... Still, I think stats should enforce the Jobs identity a bit better, take the three melee DPS; Dragoon wields a large lance, I'd expect their attacks to be slower (-Skill Speed), but more accurate and powerful (+Critical Hit Rate and Determination). Monks fight with their fists, I'd expect that to be fast and blunt (+Skill Speed and Determination, -Critical Hit Rate). Ninjas are assassins, so I'd expect them to be fast and accurate (+Skill Speed and Critical Hit Rate) but not have a lot of individual hitting power (-Determination). You'll notice I used "accurate" to refer to Critical Hit Rate a lot there, that's because I think they should be the same bleedin' stat. I'm pretty disappointed Accuracy is solely a hit/miss decider, in my head Accuracy also applies to where you hit; Do I strike your jugular, or attack your little toe for massive damage? I really think there should be some value to having more Accuracy.

Gods... Gearing up really is boring in this game (and for once I haven't even touched on Enhances stats, opps), something made all the more worse by the slow drip feeding of gear behind tomestones... I get why that cap is there, can't have people grinding out full Esoterics gear day one and breezing through Alexander, but if all tomestone gear was Job Specific (even the accessories), what would the issue be? So I can get 450 Esoterics worth of gear on my Ninja and Summoner, neither my Ninja or Summoner would be more powerful than they'd currently be, I'd just have more options to play with and a potential 5,850 Esoterics to obtain a week, which many are probably looking at and thinking I'm insane for wanting, and I agree. Had we a greater variety of content to play through though, I would find that quite entertaining, certainly more so than a single 450 cap that I reach on Wednesday... I'd honestly rather have a cap I can't reach, than a cap I reach easily.

I don't like how BRD/MCH/NIN have to share accessories. In 4 man dungeons, tank and healer always get 100% drop if it's for their job. DRG/MNK and BLM/SMN have a smaller chance to meet another DPS that they have to fight for the loots.

The problem most of you guys fail to see with the NIN-DEX issue is that by making NIN a strength class you are not solving anything. Just wait for when they add another STR based dps, such as samurai, then the gear balance will be three and three. Right now yes, NIN shares right side with bard and machinist, and this is slightly unfair, but its the most fair it's going to possibly be with the current jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gralna

You can see this in that for all post 50 gear ninja can wear from before they were added, is shared with mnk.

---

No the reason they share is because they needed to give them some sort of gear because they were not about to make full gearsets - they just added DEX and NIN/ROG to the MNK gears for that time. And MNK fit better for the melee aspect of NIN than BRD did.

It solves the problem of further bloating loot pools with unique sets. It doesn't matter how many classes you make that share the same gear in terms of "fairness". You have 8 party slots. 4 are dps that can be filled with any combination of jobs via the duty finder. You could end up with 4 str or 4 dex. What having monk and ninja would have helped avoid is when you have a premade group and get a drop that none of you can use, that drop for the week is completely wasted. There are aesthetic design choices I understand that keep mnk and drg separate, but there was absolutely no reason to not have nin and mnk share gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Itseotle

The problem most of you guys fail to see with the NIN-DEX issue is that by making NIN a strength class you are not solving anything. Just wait for when they add another STR based dps, such as samurai, then the gear balance will be three and three. Right now yes, NIN shares right side with bard and machinist, and this is slightly unfair, but its the most fair it's going to possibly be with the current jobs.

---

You don't need to make Ninja a strength class, just put dexterity on monk gear. It does literally nothing for monk since they took parry rate away from it.

Quote:

---

I don't like how BRD/MCH/NIN have to share accessories. In 4 man dungeons, tank and healer always get 100% drop if it's for their job. DRG/MNK and BLM/SMN have a smaller chance to meet another DPS that they have to fight for the loots.

---

This is mostly accurate except that tanks don't actually use the accessories they can roll need on, but that's a whole different thread. When I first saw the DEX trait for ninjas on XIVDB I figured they'd be on bard left/right side (since at the time bard also had its own gear).

Nope.

I don't want to share anything with any job.

if the devs have enough of free time to make all the dragoon gears exclusive to just one job, I believe they can make unique gears for every job.

It was annoying enough being out rolled by other Ninjas in CT, and for that to happen again in Void Ark but with Monks too? No thanks... unless of course they switch it to a token system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evangela

I don't like how BRD/MCH/NIN have to share accessories. In 4 man dungeons, tank and healer always get 100% drop if it's for their job. DRG/MNK and BLM/SMN have a smaller chance to meet another DPS that they have to fight for the loots.

---

I feel sorry for dex-user but rest assure,the next new dps job will be str-user or int-user.

Physical dps tables are way too bloated, where tanks, casters and healers get to share gear. I think monk and drg should share gear and nin with brd/mch UNLESS there's a specific reason they shouldn't.

Say, you've got some plate so you want that to be drg specific. That's reasonable, you can give monk and drg their own gear for that dungeon/raid/whatever. But if it's just a recolor? Just make one piece for both of them. For belts this should always be the case, because they're just another accessory slot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaethusXion

Gonna be funny in 4.0...

Tank- PLD/WAR/DRK
Healer- WHM/SCH/AST
Tanklike- DRG/SAM?
STR Melee- MNK/SAM?
DEX Melee- NIN/RDM?
INT Melee?- RDM?
DEX Ranged- BRD/MCH
Caster- SMN/BLM

Really though they need to better consolidate the DPS drops, since DEX is useless to DRG/MNK and STR useless to NIN/BRD/MCH, they technically could do just 4 sets (Tank, Healer, Caster, PhysicalDPS)... aside from oddball DRG and it's Phys/Mag defenses so different...

---

As MCH who received all the BRD stuff and share the new stuff with them, I think, in 4.0, we should see new melee dd sharing all their gear with either DRG, or MNK (I rather not NIN since as stated above, there are already 3 jobs who can roll need on DEX accessories).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RazeLandale

Physical dps tables are way too bloated, where tanks, casters and healers get to share gear. I think monk and drg should share gear and nin with brd/mch UNLESS there's a specific reason they shouldn't.

---

Different amount of main stats. DRG gear have more def than MNK gear. This would mean keep the stats how they are and buff the monk with more def or change the stats and nerf DRG with less def.
Also different favourite 2nd stats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evangela

I don't want to share anything with any job.

if the devs have enough of free time to make all the dragoon gears exclusive to just one job, I believe they can make unique gears for every job.

---

This belief makes... no sense at all?

Me: I can bake a cake in an hour.
You: If you can bake a cake in an hour, then I believe you can bake ten cakes in an hour!
Me: But... that's simply not true! My oven's not big enough, I don't have enough cake pans, and I simply can't work that fast even if I had those tools!
You: And make sure they're all different kinds of cake! I want each to be unique!

tell me why dragoons always get unique gears. design-wise and stats-wise. other jobs have to share their gear with other 2-3 jobs or sometimes palette-swapped version of each other's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evangela

tell me why dragoons always get unique gears. design-wise and stats-wise. other jobs have to share their gear with other 2-3 jobs or sometimes palette-swapped version of each other's.

---

Always? Law gear is a pallete swap of all other melee gear iirc, Poetics is a palette swap of Monk, Alexander is pallette swap of Monk, ST is a palette swap of Monk and many other sets I assume. Don't remember Soldiery/CT/WoD, and Soldiery is no longer in Mor Dhona for me to check.

They may add samurai on mnk though...

It would of made much more sense for NIN to fall under the MNK category. Putting DEX and a new set on them is very clearly tacked on. Question is, does SE just plan on adding even more gear sets for new jobs in the future? Is there going to be a 2nd job that uses scouting gear? Maybe it makes sense to SE, not me. If Samurai is a DPS job, will it go into the Maiming category with DRG or be it's entire own gear set, eventually cluttering raid gear with more and more sets making RNG much worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

It would of made much more sense for NIN to fall under the MNK category. Putting DEX and a new set on them is very clearly tacked on. Question is, does SE just plan on adding even more gear sets for new jobs in the future? Is there going to be a 2nd job that uses scouting gear? Maybe it makes sense to SE, not me. If Samurai is a DPS job, will it go into the Maiming category with DRG or be it's entire own gear set, eventually cluttering raid gear with more and more sets making RNG much worse.

---

Just switching everything to a token based system will solve it all, I really have no clue why they're not doing that with Void Ark.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AltanRapsied

They may add samurai on mnk though...

---

they should add SAM to DRG. combine MNK and NIN again.

yes, it would be ideal to have gear for every job but since the dev resources are not available, it makes sense visually to pair them up that way.

what i would like to see for shared gear with 3 new jobs.

WAR/DRK - heavy armor - like Binding Coil, Odin
PLD/RDM - plated robes - like Second Coil, CT, WoD
MNK/NIN - like CT
DRG/SAM - light armor, chain mail
BRD/MCH - vest, shirts
BLM/SMN - robes
WHM/AST - robes
SCH/ some healer - half gowns/robes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colorful

Just switching everything to a token based system will solve it all, I really have no clue why they're not doing that with Void Ark.

---

It is a hard question to answer, but it is more rewarding to see the item you want drop as opposed to simply tokens or crafting material. An ideal set up is all of those drop from a boss, but yea. EC did a video on it once and does have me question how end game raid loot should be set up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxfkWZPAUg4

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kahnom

I feel sorry for dex-user but rest assure,the next new dps job will be str-user or int-user.

---

Next dps HAS to be a mage in some way or form.
We got 2 magic dps vs how many physical now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Assirra

Next dps HAS to be a mage in some way or form.
We got 2 magic dps vs how many physical now?

---

Well 6, but it's pretty unfair as physical DPS encompasses a much larger amount of potential classes than magic based ones from what I can tell, and ranged physical DPS plays more similarly to magic than melee does. Lack of positionals (I don't think ranged/magic have positionals?), etc. But if it's RDM, then yeah it's probably a magic melee class, and we don't have one of those currently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

snip

---

The only reason I can see item drops being more rewarding is because you've grinded the content again and again, and started to lose hope that it'll ever drop, but then it finally does drop and you're excited. That's from my personal experience anyway, but token systems are much more fulfilling, I can work towards something that involves no, or less RNG, and getting the item that way feels just as good to me.

Monk = Power/Force Your typical power-hitter archtype.
Ninja = Finesse/Speed Your typical "rogue" archtype.

Most MMOs and RPGs seem to follow these stat spreads for those
class types.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

Different amount of main stats. DRG gear have more def than MNK gear. This would mean keep the stats how they are and buff the monk with more def or change the stats and nerf DRG with less def.
Also different favourite 2nd stats.

---

It'd be fine to change the defense either direction, it's a fairly useless stat.

As for secondary stats like crit, det etc, it's not like SE caters to giving classes optimum secondary stats anyway. If anything they outright avoid it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ruskie

No the reason they share is because they needed to give them some sort of gear because they were not about to make full gearsets - they just added DEX and NIN/ROG to the MNK gears for that time. And MNK fit better for the melee aspect of NIN than BRD did.

---

If they had planned to make Nin dex based from the start, it would of been much easier to have them share gear with brd, instead of having them share with mnk, and adding dex to all mnk gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

Paladin should have some use of White Magic (I know it doesn't, unless you count Stoneskin and Clemency), so Mind should be appropriate. [...]Ninjutsu and Intelligence?

---

AFAIK, Clemency doesn't scale with Mind, but with Attack damage.
Ninjutsu counts as magic damage, but scales off of Dex.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

Pretty disappointed with the additional stats as well, although I hope Heavensward changed that a bit... Still, I think stats should enforce the Jobs identity a bit better, take the three melee DPS; Dragoon wields a large lance, I'd expect their attacks to be slower (-Skill Speed), but more accurate and powerful (+Critical Hit Rate and Determination). Monks fight with their fists, I'd expect that to be fast and blunt (+Skill Speed and Determination, -Critical Hit Rate). Ninjas are assassins, so I'd expect them to be fast and accurate (+Skill Speed and Critical Hit Rate) but not have a lot of individual hitting power (-Determination). You'll notice I used "accurate" to refer to Critical Hit Rate a lot there, that's because I think they should be the same bleedin' stat. I'm pretty disappointed Accuracy is solely a hit/miss decider, in my head Accuracy also applies to where you hit; Do I strike your jugular, or attack your little toe for massive damage? I really think there should be some value to having more Accuracy.

---

I'd actually kinda love this. Not sure how easy it would be to balance damage output between DPS with taking "gear penalties" (which I'm interpreting your 'negative' stats as), but it'd definitely make things a lot more diverse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Assirra

Next dps HAS to be a mage in some way or form.
We got 2 magic dps vs how many physical now?

---

it doesn't have to. they don't care to balance magic vs physical because parties aren't built that way.

parties are built with 2 tanks, 2 healers, 2 melee, 2 ranged almost all of the time. currently there are 3 tanks, 3 healers, 3 melee, 4 ranged. the next 3 jobs should be 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 melee, that would make 4 of everything.

and the next melee can be physical (SAM) or magical (RDM, BLU)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evangela

tell me why dragoons always get unique gears. design-wise and stats-wise. other jobs have to share their gear with other 2-3 jobs or sometimes palette-swapped version of each other's.

---

I guess str-user gears divided into light gears(mnk) and heavy gears(drg).and if Samurai is dps job,they would probably share gear with Dragoon.Well just guessing ..

To be completely straight forward, I'd have the following sets:

of Fending (Vitality/strength): As is, with one exception, the jewelry has half the STR of Slaying equipment.
of Healing (Mind): As is, accuracy is included as free stats on the jewelry in small amounts and on the chest and legs in larger amounts.
of Praying (Piety): An in-between suffix reserved for casters and healers who need to round out their MP reserves, used only on jewelry, this suffix comes with weaker scores for Mind and Intellect, but has both on it.
of Casting (Intellect): As is.
of Maiming (Strength): Heavier equipment used by soldier-type (dragoon, samurai?) melee combatants. Has higher defense than Slaying equipment.
of Dueling (Strength): Light equipment used by duelist-type (monk, ninja, red mage?) melee combatants. Has equal defense and magic defense.
of Ranging (Dexterity): Light equipment used by ranger-type (bard, machinist) ranged combatants. Has equal defense and magic defense.