I know some one has probably asked this but I can't seem to find that thread lol
So I'm fairly new to tanking and I love it, it helps with my control issues haha so I got my DRK to 51.
I saw a debate about end game accessories (fending and slaying)
So my question is should I be switching over from my fending accessories to slaying while I level to 60 or stick with fending?
From a healing point of view I notice a lot with my slaying accessory tanks that they die almost immediately all the time in my expert roulette and my fending tanks are easier to keep alive now this maybe a armor issue, cool downs, etc...but I examine my two tank examples same 180 gear just different right sides both DRK....as I saw earlier in a post fending just gives more HP and not defense so....am I missing something.
Thanks for the help guys :)
I Want Some Feed Back From Some Good Tanks ^_^
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08-31-2015, 05:01 PMAomine1992I Want Some Feed Back From Some Good Tanks ^_^
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08-31-2015, 05:04 PMKumori_Kumo
If you know how and when to manage your cooldowns, and you're sensible about pulls, you can get away with slaying. If you don't know how good your heals coming in are gonna be, however, you may wanna stick with fending. Also a mixture can be a nice compromise. It's all about what you find yourself comfortable with, and whether you play more with strangers or friends. I tend to keep a profile with both for quick changes. Hope that helps. :)
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08-31-2015, 05:21 PMDestinovaTrueblade
Fending indeed just give more health, some have parry but it sucks so bad you want to avoid it. Slaying makes you do more damage, which also subsequently cause you to generate more enmity and self-heal more.
For expert roulette nowadays, you can probably get away with all slaying without much problem, worst comes worst you can always go back to pulling 1 pack at a time, if your healer is that bad. -
08-31-2015, 05:25 PMRapBreonYou have more than enough tools to tank with slaying. Just make sure you use them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aomine1992
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08-31-2015, 05:30 PMFaeonWhat RapBreon said. Or just play what you comfortable with.Quote:
Originally Posted by RapBreon
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08-31-2015, 05:42 PMDitto
The problem in Ex Roulette as a slaying tank is trash pulls. It's unpredictable damage, even with your CD's up. Take this from a 60 WHM and Drk.
Trash mob damage when there is a lot can spike all over the place, unless you're a Paladin because trash in general usually deals physical damage. That of which Paladin excels at, and Drk is just so far behind a Paladin could unequip their shield and point and laugh with their free hand while tanking with their other.
But jokes aside, what I'll usually do is keep both a fending, and a slaying set on me, both in different armor sets on my hotbar. On the first pull I'll test the waters with slaying. If I think the healer can keep me alive while also having time to do a minor bit of DPS if they want without me setting a new land speed record for how quick I'll hit the ground, I'll stay with Slaying. If not, I'll stick to fending for the trash, and quick swap to Slaying right before each boss. Boss damage is far more predictable, and doesn't exactly spike a lot outside of their threatening hits, which you have CD's for. To do this well however, you'd have to be familiar with fights and know when what is coming. Otherwise you'll just look like some tank who's following the "STAND IN THE FIRE DPS HIGHER" motto in full slaying, getting hit like a truck full of truck parts.
As far as priority however, I always prioritize keeping my slaying set up to date, while my fending set is a grade behind. For example I have a full i190 SLaying set, but my Fending set is still i180. Rather spend those bolts on different classes than the fending which I'd probably never use.
I mean or you could just meld crafted i150 stuff and flex on everything. -
08-31-2015, 06:56 PMSapphidia
In most cases, slaying is the way to go.
However I notice a rather large amount of pride from some tanks who are in the mindset that somehow putting Fending accessories on in ANY situation makes them a lesser person, like it strips them of their manhood. Fending accessories DO have their use outside of hitting tankbuster caps on Alex Savage. As a paladin doing trash pulls in experts, you're going to be using Flash so much anyway that your damage will be much lower in proportion to aoeing dps, so may as well give the healer some leeway. Likewise as ANY tank if you intend to mass-pull a dungeon 2-3 packs at a time and the healer isnt one you've run with before, put at least SOME fending things on.
Whilst yes, Slaying accessories are the way to go for most things, tanks need to get out of the mindset that you're a sad failure if you ever decide to put some extra vit on to help a healer have an easier time on certain things. Whilst a faster run is generally better, you have to weigh up whether the small dps gain in some situations is worth the heightened risk of splatting. You can easily have two gear sets and toggle between them on a pack by pack basis. Throw vit on for a double trash pull then swap to slaying for a boss or something.
Good tanks have multiple options in their bags at all times and swap between them on a pull by pull basis depending on their party. -
08-31-2015, 07:21 PMAsierid
Copying from the last thread that asked this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asierid
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08-31-2015, 07:27 PMEye_GoreThere are so many variables with this situation, not using CDs properly, in the wrong spot at the wrong time, player abilities...etc. I ran Neverreap the other day with a ilvl156 healer. I have 3 tank set-ups, full VIT, full STR, and 3 STR 2 VIT. I had the mix set-up on. He had no issues keeping me alive (granted I'm running ilvl 184) and I pull every area I can, except where the bees are. I just wont pull the 2 totems and the vandu guy on the hill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aomine1992
The difference in HP between the sets is roughly 2000 hp, not exactly sure as I don't have the game on now, but I think thats about it from full VIT to full STR. The DPS difference as tested on a monster in the field was I save 2 extra button pushes (don't know the actual DPS). Having the extra STR seems to me anyways better for aggro management.) -
08-31-2015, 08:14 PMJeniLinsky
I don't know that I'm a good tank, per se. My main is a L60 PLD, but I've never even finished the Steaming Coil of Bathtub, or whatever it is, let alone set foot in Gordon's Fishshack. The raids don't interest me, and never have. On the other hand, I play the Duty Roulettes for the dungeon categories many, if not most days. And I regularly get two or three player commendations out of them. So clearly, I know something about tanking. If asked for a self grade, I'd give myself a B... above average, but not in the top tier.
I find that I want mostly the Fending accessories. Keep in mind that I don't care about Best Possible Slot Fillers; I care about what helps me get through dungeons with pick-up groups. When you don't know if your DDs are going to be overgeared and trying their best to pull aggro off you, and you don't know how much experience your healer has, then having the extra hitpoints on tap is not a bad plan. I wear one slaying ring, because, as someone else noted, the more damage you do, the more agro you pump. But let's face it... when the fecal matter hits the rotating metal blades, you're going to be spamming Fast Blade -> Riot Blade -> Flash, trying desperately to hang on to agro; you're not going to have time to worry about split-second timing on damage mitigation cooldowns.
Now, if you aspire to being one of those Best in Show tanks, consider other people's recommendations. If you're happy being a blue collar tank like me, take mine. -
08-31-2015, 11:32 PMAlahra
Ideally, you should have both, especially if you do a lot of Duty Finder content with random folks. As someone suggested, it's a good idea to start with Fending and to slowly work your way into Slaying. Using Slaying requires proper cooldown management and also puts more strain on your healers to a certain degree if they also DPS, as the difference between full Slaying and full Fending tends to be about 2 to 3 GCDs before the healer will need to heal--though every healer has their own view of how low the tank's health can get before they need to heal.
I'm not a serious tank and in HW thus far I've felt more comfortable using Fending (I used pentamelded accessories in ARR). As a healer, I prefer Fending tanks by default only because I don't know if the tank knows what they're doing (and I have to say, with the shift in the meta, there are a lot of tanks wearing Slaying accessories who have no idea that they need to do extra work to compensate for the lost health). But a good Slaying tank does fine if they have the left side gear and the skill necessary to pull things off. -
09-01-2015, 01:48 AMabzoluut
STR for all tanks all the way (when you're 60, I'd check out melded accessories, they're just that good).
Need to ask though. How do your STR tanks die "instantly" compared to your VIT tanks when you heal? The hp you get from VIT, does not make the difference between instant and a little longer. A full STR tank should not die instantly because he has 1000 HP less.. -
09-01-2015, 02:54 AMSeku
free points from leveling to STR. Full Vit accessories until you're comfortable with large pulls and consistently rotating your CD's. Ease up off Vit for Str once you know a good "comfort zone" for most healers and have got the dungeon learned. Current HP that I find most healers to be able to consistently keep me alive with is about 14-15k in any content outside of Savage Alexander.
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09-01-2015, 03:38 AMWyndam
I'm an i163 tank so I'm not particularly geared or anything. But I've got a lot more compared to where I was when I started on the Expert Roulette. Right now if I remove my right side accessories my HP drops from 16000 to 12000. Yesterday while running Fractal Continuum during trash I took about 4k in a GCD once my cooldowns ran out (4 hits, all completely unmitigated). If it's the difference between dead in 3 GCDs or dead in 4 GCDs, I think it's worth wearing the Fending. Once I'm geared, sure, I'll have some Slaying accessories to play with. Until then, more damage is at the bottom of the priority list.
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09-01-2015, 05:02 AMRolynot
As a lvl 60 PLD main with ilvl190+, I'd say the best method of progression is to start off by using fending as you are first starting to gear up as a fresh 60. You barely hit like 13-14k life with full fending in greens/HQ quest gear as a fresh 60 which makes you much more susceptible to dying if your healer isn't good or geared. As you start gearing up though, start taking slaying as long as you keep your life total around 15k+. Also as you feel more comfortable, switch one fending with one slaying until you are full slaying or comfortable with a mix. I personally started full fending and started to switch to slaying as I got more geared and before I knew it, I ended up with 4 slaying 1 fending (only cause you can't have 2 slaying 190 rings). Also loving wearing the slaying as I watch my dps almost match the weaker dps =) Strangely satisfying.
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09-01-2015, 05:10 AMDrtoxicmedica
My general rules.
I tend to roll fending for trash to add a bit of a buffer so the healer can cleric stance. I'll ditch them for slaying if they dont dps or they are really geared.
Slaying for bosses unless healer really has issues (people dying, not yet comfortable with fight etc.)
And overall how well you feel you use your cds (how often you feel you almost eat dirt. How much your healer has to heal you. ex. You see alot of cure 2 bombs just to keep you standing etc.
Fending isn't bad while learning but nothing wrong with slaying once you feel you got the hang of things. -
09-01-2015, 05:47 AMAomine1992Idk he pulled the first room I saw he took a huge hit so I was already in divine seal and threw out a tetra and got him back to full threw a regan and asylum, then another spike in dmg before a cure could go off so I tried to throw out Bene cause he was already at 20% at this time but it ended up casting on myself cause he died before it even went off lmao.Quote:
Originally Posted by abzoluut
This was the first room in fractal. -
09-01-2015, 06:22 AMPhoeniciaThis seems to me an issue of an undergeared (low Def/M.Def) tank or no-CD-usage... or both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aomine1992
The difference between a full VIT and a full STR tank is ~2000 HP. VIT accessories do not affect the amount of healing a tank takes since it does not affect the damage the tank takes. If a tank gets hit for 4k, you need to heal 4k, regardless of right side.
As for me, I just tank everything in STR gear unless my healer really, really sucks. Then I just slap in VIT and hope the DPS can finish off mobs before I die. -
09-01-2015, 06:35 AMm3eansean
You dont even have provoke.
Stop what you are doing and level gladiator to 22 immediately to get the cross class skill provoke.
You are reaching the point in the game where it is a MANDATORY skill. You will be kicked from groups if you do not have it for tank swapping mechanics.
A word to the wise. Get provoke, now. -
09-01-2015, 06:48 AMUltimatecaliburAll fending vs all slaying accessories is roughly 25% to 30% less hp (~4k at i190) at level 60 depending on ilevel*. This can be a significant amount when doing big pulls in the expert dungeons.Quote:
Originally Posted by abzoluut
*According to Ariyala's. Currently checking in game. -
09-01-2015, 06:53 AMAomine1992Lol I said fairly new to tanking not new to the game I know what's required for cross abilities...no provoke is like a healer without swift cast...Quote:
Originally Posted by m3eansean
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09-01-2015, 06:54 AMDisgaea4life
you should have enough CDs and tools to use and stack all STR, endgame youll want half and half. DO NOT use melds if youre gaining i190 accs..the main stat loss is just to drastic. you lose about 10 main stat per acc going from 150 to 190. so ideally half STR half VIT acc i190 is ideal
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09-01-2015, 06:56 AMSpookyGhost^Quote:
Originally Posted by m3eansean
Also, use as much VIT as you feel comfortable with. Try and ease yourself into STR, but don't force yourself into it. It's important to know your job before you start thinking about maximizing DPS, dungeons or otherwise.
I wear my current set (4 STR + 1 crafted) for everything, including dungeons. My boyfriend heals me in 4mans and I've yet to hear a complaint from him, he will DPS the entire time until I run out of CDs (usually stuff is dead by then). That said, I'm a WAR, so I can keep myself topped up pretty easily - I'm not sure if DRK is afforded this same luxury. PLD I would definitely echo what everyone else is saying and wear Fending for big pulls as your damage will be basically unnoticed. -
09-01-2015, 06:58 AMDisgaea4life
DRK doesnt have the same selfheal luxury as WAR< but it does have a fair larger amount of short CDs. between the 1 minute CDs and soul eater you should be fine
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09-01-2015, 07:02 AMDisgaea4lifePLD can actually have pretty decent damage. at lvl 50 in full str i could pull 430 dps, it was just same thing of knowing your CDs.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
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09-01-2015, 07:05 AMSpookyGhostIn big trash pulls you are essentially just Flashing a lot, CoS on CD, rotating through mobs with your single target combos. You'll do damage, but you won't do significant enough damage to warrant the drop in HP. On bosses, going full STR + SwO is fine, but on trash I just dunno if that STR is really putting in any work. The HP isn't doing much either, but having a safety net in DF is usually a good idea when you have no real self healing to speak of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgaea4life
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09-01-2015, 07:11 AMDisgaea4life
i just know stuff dies much faster lol
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09-07-2015, 03:06 AMShining_Tiger_Excalibur
A mixture of VIT and STR accessories when first exploring content is pretty much never a bad idea. Something to consider are the secondary stats on both VIT and STR accessories though....
I avoid accessories with Skillspeed as much as possible (unless it's to grant me one more attack per 45-ish seconds, IF I'm already in a good place for main/secondary stats.) If there's no alternative I'll take it anyway.
Crit and Det are never a bad idea on both VIT and STR accessories. These explicitly make your aggro building much easier with the added benefit of ending encounters slightly faster.
Parry is, and has been, a pretty much worthless stat. Even before parry had the strength modifier taken off, you'd be better of having had stats that increase your aggro instead.
If you get to the point where you absolutely love tanking the term you'll get very used to hearing is BiS (Best in Slot.) This means you're actively leveling all of your stats off in such a way that ALL of them are as high as they can go in order to verify the harder content will be beaten.
The ones you need to worry about are VIT, STR, Crit, Determination (more than likely in that order too.) VIT so that you can just survive the hardest hit a boss has, Strength to build aggro easier and kill the enemy slightly faster, Crit to build aggro through critical damage and killing the enemy slightly faster, Determination to build aggro easier.
Even pre-formed parties will have hiccups with lag or real life interfering , so be intimately familiar with your mitigation skills in case you have to use three or even four of them back to back if you notice a rather large amount of damage coming your way.
With duty finder groups, you might also run into the need of using your "I'm not getting healed enough and I might die" win button (Holmgang, Hallowed Ground, Living Dead.) Let the use of that skill be the indicator from your dps and healer that you need to take it easy on them and yourself.
Tanking, just like healing, has a wall you must scale in terms of ability and awareness. You'll eventually develop the ability to gauge your party's potential ability based solely on their HP (better gear gives higher HP in most cases.) That last sentence excludes tanks because we can stack STR instead of VIT and still do just as good most times. The more familiar you become with content, the more strength you can put on, regardless of tank job. It all makes aggro building easier and you finish encounters faster anyway.
EDIT: You also need to take into account party composition; obviously if you have a caster like summoner or black mage, you can make larger pulls since they have access to AoE damage skills. Exercise caution doing this though because they have to be able to kill those larger pulls faster than the healer runs out of MP....or you're dead and shortly after they'll die. -
09-07-2015, 03:30 AMUrthdigger
Full slaying. Strength helps kill things faster and helps you keep hate, while vitality only boosts your max HP, which is useless unless you dip down low enough for that extra HP to save you (should be rare if you and your healer know what they're doing).
Fending accessories are just a trap for bad tanks to fall into. Well, and for healers in PVP. -
09-07-2015, 10:45 AMNektulos-Tuor
As a Paladin I wouldn't mass pull as much. I would use strength gear, Goring Blade-ing everything. Clemency for hate.
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09-07-2015, 10:53 AMSapphidiaJust got to quote this as I missed it - this is 100% WRONG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgaea4life
Melded stuff is far better than i190s. They're better than i210s.
i150 Melded accessories have 31 Str and 29 Vit on EACH PART. That's 60 total primary stats. i190 Accessories have 40 Str OR 40 Vit. You're losing 20 primary stats doing any combination of Slaying/Fending i190s.
Just had to say. If you have the money (my full set of pentamelds cost me about 4 million gil) then they are absoltuely 100% worth it and far better than any combination of mixing Fending/Slaying accs even up to i210 gear. The only time you want to NOT use Pentamelds is when you feel the need to go 100% full slaying, and even then the dps gain from swapping from pentamelds is minor compared to the vit loss.
Cost is the only downside of Pentamelds. Ideally ALL tanks should have a full set of 5 pentamelds for the current content if the market allowed it. Mixing Slaying/Fending is purely for those who cannot afford them. -
09-07-2015, 10:57 AMNektulos-TuorWhich means to beat content of the game you gotta pay. :'3Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphidia
$$ CHA CHING This is why RMT is so big in this game. Its honestly bad game design. =) -
09-08-2015, 06:33 PMPhoeniciaUmmm, Clemency generates half of whatever you healed divided by the number of engaged enemies. So if you heal 3k and have 5 enemies around you, you just generated a whooping 300 enmity per mob! Grats....Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
Please, wear full VIT and just spam flash and pop CDs and leave the healing to your healer.
4 million is nothing RMT warranting. If you spent less time RPing half naked with your male catgirl and more timeQuote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
killing poor little black sheep in coerthas, you wouldn't make that statement! :pI lied! Killing black sheep is bad! Animal rights and stuff! -
09-08-2015, 06:47 PMSpookyGhosthttp://www.dailymobile.net/wp-conten...-tell-sm11.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Phoenicia
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09-08-2015, 06:51 PMPhoeniciaI-I fixed it! Is it okay now? :oQuote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost