Quest need to be less DPS and tank focused

It took me 7 tries to pass the Reason Roallie quest with my SCH!

This has to be the most frustrated dumbest quest i played in MMO history. In which Ilberd fights off against Roallie, Roallie is immortal and can't die until you beat her 20000000 mobs that join her, Ilberd is wearing toilet paper for armor and dies with ease cause he isn't smart enough to dodge Roallie's AOE's . Even when i took the advice to kill the deathhand and healers, HE STILL dies with ease. I finally passed it with luck thanks to Cleric stance cause the SCH is so weak when it comes to DPS that he depends on cross abilities, seriously...i can't heal as good as White mages or do as good as DPS as Summoners unless i using cross abilities

Its not at all a soloing class!!!!!

but im so mad that i don't even want to do solo quest with my healer anymore. Why are quest so DPS and tank orienated? Am i going to expect anymore quest in which i have to fight off the entire army worth of mobs?

I'm not sure what your issue is. Of course you need cleric stance to dps, it shouldn't have been that hard for you. I never failed a quest more than once as WHM. And SCH can do better dps than WHM.

In fact, I'd argue dps have a harder time than healers in some of the 3.0 MSQ. A certain npc healer is the worst WHM ever, and with no self heals some dps really suffered.

/soothe

Pacification failed! More enemies joined the fray!

I passed that mission in one try with my monk, my SCH however can't kill things fast enough. It's just an unfair position to put healer classes in

That...really must speak more of your equipment. The main thing is, every class has a way to do damage, and good damage. If, as you suggest, they make a quest that focuses solely on healing, then every DPS and tank is gonna cry foul because their heals suck (PLD before Clemency, BLM/SMN) or they can't even heal (every DoW but PLD). Is your gripe over having to cross-class Cleric Stance? Uhm...sorry? for...making you use one of your 3 (min since you're at least 30 and unsynched) slots? SCH and AST normally cross-class Protect and Cleric Stance, anyway, and all healers cc swiftcast. You want...what? Blizzard 2 instead? Surecast? Aero (arguably nice as an extra DoT, true, but without Cleric Stance, there's no point, plus, you're using a healer class that is pretty easy to solo with, your fairy will keep you healed and you can shield yourself and stance-dance) Or, y'know, SCH isn't for you.

Or are you complaining because you don't want to solo quests as a healer? I really can't tell...

Not sure if troll or just...

Where is the problem with using abilities from other classes? You are a healer therefore you need the MND attribute, yet MND only increases healing magic potency. INT however increases ATK magic potency, so why not use an ability that actually swaps your INT and MND values?..
SCH is imo the best healer who is able to dps while keeping the party up.

Especially since DPSing as a SCH is not that hard apply Bio II, Miasma, Bio -> Bane ; use Ruin / Bravado (or however that skill is called..xD) as a filler until your DoTs are about to expire -> rinse repeat -> win (yes, one could place shadow flare and use miasma II too)

tl;dr: All quests are easy as a heal as long as you can utilize Cleric Stance, if not....well then suit yourself..

I had the issue of the NPC dying >.> npcs don't dodge aoes. they are stupid. Try kiting the mobs away from them a bit next time.

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Originally Posted by PogueX

I finally passed it with luck thanks to Cleric stance cause the SCH is so weak when it comes to DPS that he depends on cross abilities

Its not at all a soloing class!!!!!

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http://memecrunch.com/meme/UXMM/not-....jpg?w=552&c=1

I agree. NO class/job in the game needs a single cross class skill outside their own in order to complete MSQ other than SCH and AST. They ABSOLUTELY must have Cleric Stance. The logic behind that? Dunno. Swift Cast, Quelling Strikes, Blood for Blood, Provoke, Protect, Stone Skin, whatever.. No one needs these cross class skills to play solo. The only exception is Cleric Stance. Inside the game, at what point was there ever an emphasis on cross class skills? Or maybe I missed it. A skill that is so vital to healers in order to play solo, either have that ability built into all healer classes or give em a means to complete solo instances through strictly healing. I was fortunate enough to have played a CNJ at the very beginning and had Cleric Stance, Protect and Stone Skin at the ready when I tried ACN/SCH a while later. They were so important to me as a SCH that I would never had guessed that the class never would not have had these skills unless I had leveled a CNJ first. Lucky me.

It might be true that the importance of Cleric Stance is understated in-game, but aside from that...it's one of the lowest-level cross-class skills. I really don't see the issue.

Also, healers are quite OP for solo content.

You can't even unlock SCH without taking CNJ to level 15. Cleric Stance is Level 6.

If you really don't like using cross-class skills, I think you should find a different game to play.

EDIT: OP is probably trolling.

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Originally Posted by kupokage

I agree. NO class/job in the game needs a single cross class skill outside their own in order to complete MSQ other than SCH and AST. They ABSOLUTELY must have Cleric Stance. The logic behind that? Dunno. Swift Cast, Quelling Strikes, Blood for Blood, Provoke, Protect, Stone Skin, whatever.. No one needs these cross class skills to play solo. The only exception is Cleric Stance. Inside the game, at what point was there ever an emphasis on cross class skills? Or maybe I missed it. A skill that is so vital to healers in order to play solo, either have that ability built into all healer classes or give em a means to complete solo instances through strictly healing. I was fortunate enough to have played a CNJ at the very beginning and had Cleric Stance, Protect and Stone Skin at the ready when I tried ACN/SCH a while later. They were so important to me as a SCH that I would never had guessed that the class never would not have had these skills unless I had leveled a CNJ first. Lucky me.

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Yeah, not true really.

Most Melee/tank roles end up picking up either Second Wind and/or Cure to assist themselves with self-heals while leveling.
THM's typically make the walk to Gridania to unlock protect and cure low level to assist themselves with self-heals/and back up party 'boy did things go south fast' skills.
If you're leveling MRD, and you're doing dungeons w/o Flash or Provoke...may the 12 have mercy on your soul.

As far as MCH/DRK/AST...well considering WHEN the game allows you to even unlock these roles/and the class unlock requirements, if you don't have at least the bare min in cross, class skills on your hotbar, I don't know what to say to you.

And when it comes to 'no other roles have it as hard'

Also not true....

Healers, get this, can actually HEAL the NPC's in the quests, other roles cannot do this. Healers can also heal themselves etc. So for some quests, they actually have the advantage.

Tanks, have higher def and HP pools, and also generally have some tools that allow them to modestly restore their HPs. In addition to this, they have instant +emn skills that can help them rip hate of key NPC's etc. So for some quests, they actually have the advantage.

Melee DPS, have high damage output, and aren't easy to interrupt...but lack in powerful self-heals and can sometimes stuggle to get a mob's attention on them and off a key NPC. Also, esp. lower level, they can get overwhelmed when fighting multiple mobs. Still, their high dps output means that for some quests, they actually have the advantage.

Ranged DPS, again have high dps output, but (unless brd/mch) can be easily interrupted esp. if they need to move...still to compensate for this, they have a fair amount of CC skills. Although these roles (accept ACN), lack a natural way to heal themselves w/o cross class skills, and are the most 'squishy' of all the roles...so things can get dicey quick if they don't kill enough or have to spend a large time dodging. Still, for AOE battles, and any time they can park and bark, these roles have the advantage.

Typically though, if you have proper 'at level' gear on, and know your role, and READ what the quest tells you to do (so many skip reading and therefore, miss what the actual objective is), it's pretty hard to have multiple fails on any role within the MSQ.

PS: I have no sympathy for the SCH that doesn't get AND EQUIP proper cross class skills if they intend to heal....they can, anytime they wish, swap to SMN if being 'bothered' to equip Cleric's Stance isn't 'for them' ....especially when I don't think you can even unlock SCH without leveling CNJ to at least 15...1st role or not.

The thing is...you're not LUCKY you leveled CNJ before unlocking SCH...you NEED to get CNJ 15 to unlock it, which is wel past the point of Cleric Stance and Protect (Stoneskin is another thing but most will say SCH doesn't need it)

As the story progresses, the story fights do get a little bananas. I watched my BF struggle in several instances with his Astrologian while my Warrior just walked all over its face. There's clearly a little bit of sloppiness when it comes to balancing these encounters between the classes.

Did you heal the npc? Because if you didn't you weren't even using your main class skills.

It's not like you have to go out of your way to equip clerics or something anyway. It's so low level it's purpose is for soloing content and it's available to healers very early on. They have to make these quests interesting for everyone. If the npcs have so little hp that any dps can just faceroll through it then it would become the least memorable quest instead of an important story catalyst.

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Originally Posted by kupokage

I agree. NO class/job in the game needs a single cross class skill outside their own in order to complete MSQ other than SCH and AST. They ABSOLUTELY must have Cleric Stance. The logic behind that? Dunno.

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cleric only exists for the reason you can do solo content like the MSQ. you don't NEED cleric in any multiplayer content.

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Originally Posted by Tint

cleric only exists for the reason you can do solo content like the MSQ. you don't NEED cleric in any multiplayer content.

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Any raid/progression healer will disagree with you.

As will any other truly skilled healer.

Scholar is my solo job of choice for any content in this game. It has very high DPS potential alongside with healing powers. I think DD and tank jobs have a bigger disadvantage because they're not capable of healing themselves for the most part.

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Originally Posted by Tint

cleric only exists for the reason you can do solo content like the MSQ. you don't NEED cleric in any multiplayer content.

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I don't know if you're trolling, but cleric stance is very widely used in all endgame and leveling content for all healers.

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Originally Posted by PogueX

I passed that mission in one try with my monk, my SCH however can't kill things fast enough. It's just an unfair position to put healer classes in

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Try healing as a healer, there's half a dozen NPCs in there that deal damage. Plus they have insane HP, and stoneskin is a flat 10%.

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Originally Posted by Taika

I don't know if you're trolling, but cleric stance is very widely used in all endgame and leveling content for all healers.

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of course it is. but you don't NEED it. shall i use even bigger letters? healer dps is nice to have, but there is no content in this game where cleric is needed to hit the dps check. okay, if you are doing the content undergeared you will probably need the extra dps. but if you hit the minimum ilvl you are fine (as long as the actual dps in your party don't suck xD)

as i said: the reason cleric exists is solo content.

You need Cleric Stance.

Claiming otherwise is the kind of hair-splitting that allows for Blood of the Dragon or Enochian not being "NEEDED" since you can DPS without them...never mind that neglecting such tools makes one bad at their Job and a load for other players to carry.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

You need Cleric Stance.

Claiming otherwise is the kind of hair-splitting that allows for Blood of the Dragon or Enochian not being "NEEDED" since you can DPS without them...never mind that neglecting such tools makes one bad at their Job and a load for other players to carry.

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Exactly, it's like saying you don't need raging strikes for BLM (because it's cross class skill) or that you don't need to sing as BRD (because BRD is a DPS and not a support role).

That quest...is ridiculously easy as scholar. Cleric stance, dot something, bane, shadowflare, put adlo and physick on yourself if you get hurt. Can even lustrate if you get really low.

Scholar is easily the best soloing class in the game because it's impossible to die unless you mess up. I'm not sure how you had trouble. o.O

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Originally Posted by Tint

of course it is. but you don't NEED it. shall i use even bigger letters? healer dps is nice to have, but there is no content in this game where cleric is needed to hit the dps check. okay, if you are doing the content undergeared you will probably need the extra dps. but if you hit the minimum ilvl you are fine (as long as the actual dps in your party don't suck xD)

as i said: the reason cleric exists is solo content.

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Incorrect. Savage is tuned with healer dps in mind.

If your group overgears it though, you're free to be lazy.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Incorrect. Savage is tuned with healer dps in mind.

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Incorrect, savage is NOT tuned with healer dps in mind!

yoshi said:

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This is also one of the reasons we decided both implement a normal and savage version of Alexander. Once again, healer DPS was not included in the development team's calculation as it was for other jobs, so you should just think of healer DPS as a last way to get your overall party's DPS up where it needs to be.

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http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/125...-Event-5-19%29

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ount-for-raids


once again: healer dps is a nice bonus, but not NEEDED.

I did this part of the MSQ on my SCH after I failed it on WAR ... (Admittedly SCH is my main, WAR's just a job I enjoy messing around on) yeah it took awhile, but I just kited everything, kept whittling them down with dots, kept Ilberd up (the snake!) with my Lustrates. I wouldn't describe it as easy - by which I mean to say I couldn't face roll it - but any competent SCH (or other healer) should be fine. I did all the MSQ solo stuff on SCH for Heavensward too; fairy kept me alive while I deepsed my heart out. Fun times!

Umm... Scholar is one of the easiest classes to do solo content on. Yes, it takes a while to kill stuff, but you have a faerie nanny to spam heals on you. It is almost impossible to die on most story quests. If NPCs are dying, you can heal them.

If you leveled WHM high enough, Stoneskin is extremely effective on NPCs because they have much bigger HP pools than player characters. If you don't have Stoneskin, it is worth taking the time to obtain, as is Swiftcast.

It's a difficult fight anyway, but I actually think you have an advantage doing it as a healer. I did it as a WHM, and as in most duties, I took the backseat and just kept healing the NPCs on my side - damage output (and aggro) wise, multiple NPCs >>> me on my own. When I tried to go all out DPS and just focus on myself, everyone else went down quickly and I ended up trying to heal, DPS and tank five enemies at a time all at once. It's much easier to support the DPS NPCs and let them do the fighting for you.

Really, it's easier to solo as a healer in general, just slower. You can protect, stoneskin, and divine seal + regen yourself and you're basically laughing. DPS might be quicker, but there's no safety net and once you're out, you're out.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Incorrect, savage is NOT tuned with healer dps in mind!




once again: healer dps is a nice bonus, but not NEEDED.

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It would be most accurate to say "If you expect to progress at the beginning of a raid cycle, before higher ilvl gear is available to your team, be prepared to account for healer DPS."

Anyway, you keep throwing the word "need" around as if it carried some important and unambiguous meaning. How far do you want to take this notion? You can be terrible and still complete almost all of the content the game has to offer, so does that mean that effort and skill are not needed?

If you are good at playing the healer role, you know when and how you should DPS. I thought we'd already had enough threads about this, but I guess we need something to debate besides AST....

cleric stance.

sch not a solo class? LOL

A dude failing a MSQ with SCH...and claiming SCH to be weak, and then, even going far beyond, and saying MNK is good in solo content, this must be one of the dumbest things I've heard in some time.
Meanwhile, I do 15 minute solo runs in Amdapor Keep HM with my SCH unsynced. OP, Try soloing Amdapor Keep HM with your MNK and tell us how it went Lol.

What's gonna be your next complaint, SCH MP management or PLD not having enough defensive cooldowns and mitigation?

Passed this second try as astro (tried healing the first time, realized game wanted DPS.) if I can pass this as an astro you should be able to snooze it with the insane DPS of sch

I'm sure its been said in here already but I couldn't make it past the first page after the OP and the one near the bottom. The game requires you to have two different CLASSES up to 30 and 15 to have a JOB. In turn meaning, the game was emphasizing to have cross abilities. A conjurer that goes into a white mage, the MOST iconic type healing stature not only for final fantasy but for a lot of games in general. Heck the SCH can't even become a SCH without already having gotten the CNJ to 15 already anyways. At which point you get Cleric stance at level 6. The ACN gets their iconic summon ability at 4 which is 2 levels before the CNJ gets their cleric stance. And CNJ don't even learn cure 1 till level 2. The original healing class DOESN'T EVEN LEARN A HEALING SPELL FIRST. They learn stone. A healing class/job will have a much better time on MSQ than a DPS will for the most part cause they haven't needed to worry about positional throughout the entire game.

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Originally Posted by PogueX

I finally passed it with luck thanks to Cleric stance cause the SCH is so weak when it comes to DPS that he depends on cross abilities, seriously...i can't heal as good as White mages or do as good as DPS as Summoners unless i using cross abilities

Its not at all a soloing class!!!!!

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Lmfao, SCH is clearly not for you. Either that or you're trying to troll way too hard.