Well, I tried playing AST yesterday with the buffs and I have to say: It's AWESOME!
I'm not doing Alex Savage, but I think I can give my opinion on the job as well:
Before the buffs, I was running expert dungeons in DF as the three healer jobs. With both WHM and SCH I could heal ok and DPS ok to help raid, but I never felt comfortable with DPSing as AST. I felt like if I went on cleric stance for a sec I would ruin the entire run because I wouldn't be able to keep the tank alive and everybody would die soon after. As full time healer/buffer I never had MP problems at all and I didn't understand what people was talking about back then...
But now, with synastry and a lot of HoTs happening, I feel like I was free to DPS. But now I have a minor problem: getting OoM. I'm sure I'll be able to manage this little annoyance with the tricks everybody talks about (and I never saw a good reason to use), like extending LA or using a spear right before using LA, after all LA has a quelling effect on enmity, so I have to use it sooner than I would use SoS anyway...
Now I expect some love for SCH. I guess ET could add some MP boost or reduce the MP of your next affected skill(Adlo is too mp consuming, don't you think?). Reduce cast time for Adlo and/or Succor would also be a good option.
But Dissipation is what we need more attention. Maybe if the bonus from dissipation worked on abilities as well, or if it would full your MP (since you should be out of MP AND out of Aether stacks AND with Aetherflow on cooldown to use it) or if it would trigger a proc to summon your fairy for free or anything that make it worth using Dissipation we could see more people using it. The way I see it now, the bonus you get to sacrifice your fairy is not worth the loss of her.
My AST experience and what I expect from now on...
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08-27-2015, 02:54 AMRoxas_AndradeMy AST experience and what I expect from now on...
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08-27-2015, 03:04 AMNorthernLadMSP
LOL Scholar needs buffs? The most OP job in the game needs buffs just because AST is now a good class?
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08-27-2015, 03:14 AMckc22You know that point when your exaggeration is so extreme that you don't even have a point anymore? Yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP
Anyways they don't care about scholar and it's evident from a laundry list of 3.0 changes. -
08-27-2015, 03:14 AMLastelli
Are you really asking for more MP efficiency on a job that finishes alex savage encounters safely sitting at 50% mp left even while dpsing whenever possible? Are you really asking for another OP cd? Have you seen AST lvl60 skill, Celestial Opposition?
Are you telling me Dissipation is worse that that?
Now let me tell you something. Dissipation just temporarily turns the godly SCH into a Noct AST with 20% stronger heals, while giving them a free AF stack for them to use their insanely OP indomitability or wathever.
This is starting to get ridiculous. SCH already is insanely powerful and by far the best healer at: burst healing/emergency healing, mana management and dps. If they use Eos they also have a very good sustained healing. -
08-27-2015, 03:17 AMRoxas_AndradeActually I'd like every class was buffed. But then I know the game would be too easy. It needs some challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP
But really. As I said, I'm not doing endgame raids and all (I do Alex normal with ease, but I don't have a static to do savage and I don't want to search random people in PF).
My opinion is that before the path, I almost never used synastry, since the tank was the only one needing heals and I almost never used CU, since the draw back was too big.
As I run SCH today, I almost never use ET, because I usually use Physick/Adlo. And I never ever used Dissipation in battle. Maybe people have good reasons to use these skills, but I don't see any. I would apreciate any help with them. ^.^ -
08-27-2015, 03:18 AMNorthernLadMSPOooh, do you mean like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22
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08-27-2015, 03:20 AMckc22Dissipation is not a healing CD. It's only usefulness is in adding dps. You shouldn't be using it for AF stacks because if you are you are managing your AF poorly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastelli
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08-27-2015, 03:23 AMRoxas_AndradeWhat's the point in having a skill to make you worse? To go from Godly to a Noct AST, I would just dismiss my fairy...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastelli
I agree that SCH is powerful. But every class/job has room for improving. Don't you want better skills for any class? -
08-27-2015, 03:23 AMBrightshadow
If scholars got a buff that would be the final nail in the coffin for white mage
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08-27-2015, 03:27 AMSoyre_Monre
ckc22 doesn't even have Ast at 60, it's only non-sense whining.
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08-27-2015, 03:29 AMRoxas_AndradeLOL. Sure a lot of people will say that. But I think WHMs has such a good synergy between their skills that I don't see what needs to improve. IMO, Assize is like a mini Limit Break...Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightshadow
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08-27-2015, 03:30 AMckc22Your point being what? Of course I don't have it at 60 I don't want to play it. You can glean everything you need to know about healing from reading tooltips and doing math.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyre_Monre
I'd always rather have a Whm co healer personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brightshadow
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08-27-2015, 03:31 AMRin_Kuroi
I also play a 60 sch. While I don't savage on it there's a certain elegance that's missing when compared to whm. Part of it might be the overcompilcated (imo) dps rotation. The other part might be the fairy that I want to throw in a sack and drown in a lake. The 50+ skills also feel a bit underwhelming at least compared to my whm. Maybe sch just doesn't mesh with my play style any more. Maybe I'm just a baddie. I dunno.
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08-27-2015, 03:31 AMLastelliOh my, and how do you know? Devs disagree with you, since according to them this skill was specifically designed to give AF stack if for whatever reason you need it and the 20% healing buff is just secondary. This is the very definition of "emergency". You think you're managing your AF correctly but then hey, unexpected damage, gotta use indomitability! But now I have no AF stack and I really need sacred soil for raidbuster! Or you can use to increase your dps with more energy drains. It does have it's uses, period. SCH asking for buffs or better skills now that AST no longer sucks is like the fat kid asking for another slice of pizza because the poor kid next to him just got some crackers.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22
Please...just please...no. How is applying a fey dots and spamming broil "overcomplicated"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi
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08-27-2015, 03:34 AMSoyre_Monre
That you have no idea of what you're talking about. You see aspbene that is 14% better that sch shield and claim that's overpowered when you have no idea of the mana costs, how hps goes, the difference in healing with more power but without fairy, having sinastry but not AF.
Just stop whining. -
08-27-2015, 03:34 AMckc22People have been asking for dissipation to be fixed/changed since like.... 3 days after heavensward - it has 0 to do with astrologians, although all of you do seem to think the universe revolves around you. Too much time looking at stars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastelli
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08-27-2015, 03:35 AMckc22I'll post whatever I like. You stop whining.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyre_Monre
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08-27-2015, 03:38 AMSenzorialBoundriesDmg never happen "unexpected" , if you fail to dodge a simple telegraphed aoe its your fault and its not unexpeced, if a tank fails to do proper cd rotations is not unexpected dmg just happening UNEXPECTED.. You clearly have no idea what you are talkinga bout, Emergency tactics is borderline useless , its same effective hp, actually worse since shields > heals, you cant overheal with shields. You crit an ET Adlo ok 12k heal sure all nice but for what when >50% of that is a big overheal, dissipation is only useable on less healing intensive phases , like p1 a1s when the whm can solo heal the whole thing, its just for the dps boost and thats that. If you need to rely on a horrible skill such as dissipation to save some1 than either you or that person did something terrible wrong to reach that point. Scholars are asking for simple tweeks and fixes but all the focus goes on Astrologians , its not like we need a whole kit rework just a simple fix, like embrace fix to act like 300 heal instead of 175-200Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastelli
Only good skill scholars got in 3.0 is indomitability, DT is also very good but sitiuational. -
08-27-2015, 03:44 AMGhishlainOut of curiosity, why don't you like Broil? It's potent and straight forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries
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08-27-2015, 03:45 AMRichardButte
I play(ed) both SCH and AST at 60 and in Alex (not savage yet).
The only buff SCH needs is for Dissipation to not be a horrible mistake to use. Maybe if it just resummoned the pet at the end of the duration it'd be fine, but the net loss of healing and mana from having your fairy gone is just not worth it... -
08-27-2015, 03:50 AMRin_KuroiCome now. I'm a terrible sch but even I know there's more to it then that. Life drain, bane and aetherflow stack management is part of it too. A whm only needs only 3 keys and can do some very nice burst damage. Maybe even sustained if given the opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastelli
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08-27-2015, 03:50 AMSenzorialBoundriesI like broil too but its nothing special its not a bad skill by any stretch of imagination but its nothing special either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghishlain
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08-27-2015, 03:57 AMSoyre_Monrewhm sustained dps isn't that high, just on st (and it shine only on bursts), but it require a lot of mana. Scholar can dps with very little mana issue, and only if spamming a lot of broils.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi
Also, every whm spell can miss, while scholar has Bio, Bio2 and Shadowflare 100% hit.
The rotation, also, is very easy. Bio2, miasma, bio, aero, shadoflare and when dots are up just broil spam. Miasma2 and Blizz2 if a lot target. Energy between spells if you don't need lustrates or indom and bane if multidotting is required.
In A1S dotting both oppressor is a strong source of damage and in A2S scholar is godlike thanks to bane and vulnerability stacks. Dots also require less uptime than whm to be very effective. -
08-27-2015, 03:57 AMRin_KuroiIts no stone 3 that's for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries
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08-27-2015, 04:01 AMLastelliHealers' dps rotation is pretty straightforward. When dpsing, you generally want to apply dots->bane if multitarget->energy drains and broil spam (dissipation for more energy drain in some circumstances). Reapply dots when they're about to fall off. There are minor variations depending on the fight, but this is pretty much it. It's more complicated than the trivial WHM "rotation", if you can call it that...but it's still very easy. in this case, more complicated also means (much) higher dps. Also, WHM is the one that usually heals for the most part and it hardly has the chance to dps for longer periods of time (you usually apply aero 3 and 2, maybe one stone 3 and you must fo back to healing), you can't ask for an easier way to dps with a sch. It's already very, very easy. And very effective as well since in A2S a sch can easily reach 900 edps and in A1S around 500.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rin_Kuroi
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08-27-2015, 04:05 AMRin_KuroiQuote:
Originally Posted by Soyre_Monre
That seems so much more complicated to me than whm. Maybe aero 3, aero 2, then stone 3 spam. Aero 1 or fluid aura during movement. Add pot + pom as needed. That at least results in some solid burst. Properly timed shrouds help too. If we didnt have to heal our ass off I could see it being a lot more sustainable. -
08-27-2015, 04:27 AMSoyre_Monre
It's of course more complicated, but just because sch has more dps spells than white mage, but it's still very easy to manage, nothing even near what dps have to do to sustain a good damage.
Without taking raid in consideration, in dungeon for example you pre-shield the tank, after you focus one target with the 3 main dot and then bane them to the other mobs. In addition to this, just shadoflare on the ground and one miasma 2 if really a lot mobs. You can switch back to heal after this if needed, if not you go with broil spam.
It require 10s to cast everything and it does a tons of dps. Fairy help a lot giving you more time to dps.
As whm, if few target you apply dot and than spam stone 3, if a lot you just spam holy.
Dps isn't really different, if the pull is short is higher on whm, if long is better on scholar. But the true difference is that scholar can heal more while dpsing and while whm drain a lot of mp, scholar is almost completely free.
You just need to train a bit, then you'll see that sch is really easy and rewarding :3 -
08-27-2015, 05:22 AMRin_KuroiDungeons are a whole different story. Whm sustainabilty isnt an issue here and I can go all out most of the time while rarely needing to heal aside from hots. Its comparable to sch and much easier to bring to bear. The way I dps on sch are the same methods everyone is using in this thread. Maybe its the gear differences between the two but I often do much better on my whm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyre_Monre
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08-27-2015, 08:10 AMMuahbecOh the ignorance, go home troll.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22
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08-27-2015, 11:18 AMDkDerekWhy would they care? The class has been busted for a year and a half. They deserve no changes for the next 3 expansions, while the other healing jobs grow around them. At that point they might be balanced.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22