Thoughts/confusions about new "Royal Authority"

First and foremost, forgive me if this has already been a topic discussed. But i just decided to really dig in to the new structure of the PLD with the new combo (C1, C2, C3) skills given in HS.

Here is what i was looking over, and please correct me if i'm wrong, i'm trying to wrap my head around this:

C1: Fast Blade>Savage Blade>Rage of Halone:
Total ATK potency: 610
Enmity increase with Savage and Rage.
Bonus: Reduce target STR by 10% for 20s

C2: Fast Blade>Riot Blade>Goring Blade
Total ATK potency: 600
No enmity increase
Restore MP with Riot
Bonus: DoT of 40 over 24s (combined total potency of: 540)
(im a bit confused about this part as 40dmg over 24s [is it per second?] would be 960 dmg. Can someone clarify this? Either way if it caps at 540 dmg plus the combo total potency, its still worthwhile)

C3: Fast Blade>Savage Blade>Royal Authority
Total Atk Potency: 690
Enmity increase from Savage
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The area that i have issues with is i can see obvious use for C1 and C2, as being a tank i want to maintain enmity with C1 used with Flash. As my MP decreases i will want to use C2 used also with Sheltron to get that back up. That combined with an extra DoT to increase dmg makes C2 even more useful.

C3 has minimal enmity to compete with C1. C3 also has less DPS than C2 (i would imagine with the DoT), with no added bonus of MP. I really dont feel the higher ATK Potency of 690 is really THAT much of a difference to make me want to cycle it.

What are your thoughts? Let me know if i'm missing something incredibly stupid, haha. Also, does Fight or Flight work with the DoT on Goring? Because i would couple that with C2 as well if that is the case.

Why doesn't Royal Authority have any extra bonus? An increased damage potency for tank really isn't much of an incentive. Give it a self-healing bonus or something like that.

Royal Authority is for when you're in an off-tank scenario and/or not concerned about enmity (such as when soloing). You can also use it when tanking on longer fights if you have a comfortable aggro lead, rotating between that as necessary to keep up Goring Blade.

And yes, Fight or Flight works with Goring Blade's DoT portion.

In one sense, you're right in your observations, but you've glossed over one very very important element:

You said "I really dont feel the higher ATK Potency of 690 is really THAT much of a different to make me want to cycle it. "

You couldn't be more wrong, actually. I feel you've not realised just how important DPS is in the current tanking meta. Tanks can push out a lot of DPS if they really try, and the amount they contribute to a party is very important, whether it's hard raids or just simple 4mans. Royal Authority doesnt do bonus threat or debuffs or anything other than damage, but it does a LOT of damage. 80 extra potency per 3 GCDs is a lot and really adds up.

You're looking at it incorrectly. Yes, Rage of Halone does more threat and yes, it debuffs strength. But what happens when you have a threat lead and dont need the bonus enmity? What happens if a mob really isnt hitting hard enough to need the strength debuff? Why would you use Rage of Halone here when you could get 80 potency more from Royal Authority.

Likewise, don't look at the Goring Blade combo as something that's just for mana regen. It's your highest potency combo by a mile and you should always be trying to keep up that goring blade dot on everything you tank.

Ideally your rotation as a Paladin should be Goring Blade combo -> Royal Authority combo x 2 and NEVER use Rage of Halone. This isnt practical of course because you do need to use Halone to get an early threat lead, and some monsters hit hard enough to warrant the strength debuff. But you should be trying to use Halone as little as possible and use Authority as much as possible.

Right now, Tanks are expected to contribute to DPS as hard as they can (as long as they don't die and can hold aggro fine). Royal Authority is something you should use as much as humanly possible.

Goring is 40 potency every 3s for 24s. It's your highest damaging combo when the DoT isn't already still ticking. You want to reapply it whenever it's at 3s or less.

Royal Authority is your highest damaging combo outside of Goring. It's used as filler until you need to reapply Goring.

RoH is your aggro/debuff combo. It does the lowest potency, but generates the highest enmity and applies a STR down debuff to the enemy.

So. RoH doesn't need to be spammed 24/7 - if you have aggro, you don't need to generate more of it unless you are teetering on the edge of losing aggro. The STR down debuff also lasts quite awhile, you don't need to spam RoH back to back to back. After getting aggro with RoH, what do we do? Put up our highest potency DoT - Goring Blade. So now our DoT is up, our STR debuff is up, and we've got some time left. How do we fill it? Royal Authority.

Also, sometimes you'll want to prioritize damage over the STR debuff, in which case you let it drop and go for another Royal Authority. Shield Swipe also generates a lot of enmity, but is unfortunately a DPS loss - it is, however, better to lose DPS than to lose hate.

But yeah. RA = filler.

Awesome guys! thanks for the help! This will definitely help my tanking.

As someone said RA is really only for solo play or a good lead. I'll usually switch up from shield oath to sword oath about halfway in boss fights just to help burn it faster I'll go with the RA rotation. That rotation will hit over a combined 3000 total damage barring criticals, when FoF is active, without FoF up it'll hit around 2500ish. So its really just the best DPS rotation we have thats about it.

You've basically discovered why people aren't super-enthusiastic about PLD right now. We have the lowest DPS and lowest enmity among the tank classes by a long shot. While I don't think we've ever been given figures for how much extra enmity is generated by Flash or RoH, even with Shield Oath's boost, we can't compete with DRK and WAR (we're also pathetic on AoE pulls - just try tanking against a 170+ BLM or SMN for proof of that).

I believe Royal Authority's main purpose is for burn phases, and instances where we have adds with no aggro table, so we aren't twiddling our thumbs (first and last bosses in Neverreap, Granite Gaols, and Sable Price come to mind). It also provides a nice alternative combo, so we can theoretically put out a little more damage.

The problem is that we can't use these new combos until we are exceptionally geared without endangering the party.

So yeah, good for DPS checks where you're not having to hold hate, but otherwise (sadly) not really worth it.

To respond to Jpec07, it's definitely not true that it's only for Burn Phases. If you're tanking in shield oath, after a couple of halone combos on a boss you should be able to tank almost entirely using Goring Blade and Royal Authority combos unless you're undergeared. No DPS should be able to catch up to a paladin doing their Goring/Royal/Royal combo in Shield Oath unless the paladin is full vit spec, full fending, or has noticeably worse gear/weapons than the DPS.

Obviously it depends on gear levels, but you SHOULD be able to use a lot of Royal Authorities when tanking anything. It's only really if you swap to Sword Oath when tanking (if you dont need the mitigation) that you can run into threat problems without throwing in lots of Halones.

If you're struggling to use Royal Authority when tanking in shield oath against equally geared DPSers then you should probably consider adding more strength into your tank build, as it really shouldnt be an issue and you shouldnt need more than a couple of Halone Combos at the start of a fight to get a safe enough threat lead to spam it.

Alternatively, you can use the "mixed" rotation of Goring -> Halone -> Royal. This has a nice balance of threat and damage and keeps both the -Str and Goring Dot on, and you're only losing 80 potency per 9 GCDs rather than 160.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

If you're tanking in shield oath, after a couple of halone combos on a boss you should be able to tank almost entirely using Goring Blade and Royal Authority combos unless you're undergeared.

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While this is true and RA will still give a bit more DPS, I just feel its a waste because of the damage reduction. I just feel like if I'm going RA rotation I want the max out of it, but thats just me. It just seems during fights it really doesn't add much to the overall DPS of the group to be noticed, but thats just me. I just see it as my own little rage mode.

I can understand that (do note that -10% Strength debuff doesnt equate to -10% less damage done though, it's generally less than 10% and it only affects physical damage).

That's why the best rotation for most to use is Goring -> Halone -> Royal. You really shouldnt need to do more than one Halone combo every 3 rotations to stay miles ahead on threat, and you'll still keep near 100% uptime of the strength debuff whilst boosting your damage.

I guess it IS fairly minmaxy if you're not in content that has super tough DPS checks, but even in 4mans I try to min max my output just to feel like I'm doing my best for my group. Everyone loves a swift dungeon run and if I can make it 4 seconds quicker by using more Royal Authorities, go me! ^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

I can make it 4 seconds quicker by using more Royal Authorities, go me! ^^

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It was funny today I did a little test with full VIT vs STR accessories. Doing the same rotation on the same monster and no critical hits. I saved 2 button pushes in full STR all of a gain of about 3 seconds give or take. Those seconds add up for sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

We have the lowest DPS and lowest enmity among the tank classes by a long shot. While I don't think we've ever been given figures for how much extra enmity is generated by Flash or RoH, even with Shield Oath's boost, we can't compete with DRK and WAR (we're also pathetic on AoE pulls - just try tanking against a 170+ BLM or SMN for proof of that).

The problem is that we can't use these new combos until we are exceptionally geared without endangering the party.

So yeah, good for DPS checks where you're not having to hold hate, but otherwise (sadly) not really worth it.

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PLD can do AOE pulls quite well even agaisnt the The Mage class, the best rotation to keep mobs on you when mages are working is Flash then combine fof with cos, fast blade flash riot blade flash repeat the fast, flash riot combo and your MP will be fine and the aggro will be kept.