DRK an easier tank?

Is it just me or does DRK seem like a really easy tank to play cause all you do is spam unleash, or at least that's all i do until the mobs hit me

Though i am not a good tank when i have my paladin, i find it hard to argo mobs sometime. Is their some rotation, i usually shield lob, flash, then go through the combos. Should i be constantly flashing after cool down? Sorry if that belongs in the newbie section, ive always played DPS and healers till now. Everyone tells me that the pally is the easiest tanking class, but with DRK (i only played the lower dungeons) it seems that getting argo is as easy as casting unleash a bunch of times

i might be wrong though

At low, low levels? Absolutely faceroll.

Higher level? It's much harder than paladin.

"Is this class easier because I play it suboptimally?"
To actually answer your question:
With every tank the initial pull on trash is about the same. Ranged aggro grab (DRK's is umend, PLD = shield lob, WAR = tomahawk), AOE aggro grabber (Unleashed/Flash/Overpower) 3 times (or more if your DPS significantly outgears you), then you move into combos on single enemies, using defensive CDs and OGCDs as necessary. The goal here is to use your AOE aggro grabber as little as possible because for all classes it either costs a lot of TP (WAR) or MP (PLD/DRK), resources you could be using more efficiently.

Flash is PLD's Unleash equivalent, so yeah, you do the same thing on PLD as you do on DRK. The two classes play very similarly, but the damage potential on DRK keeps going up while PLD's defensive options increase instead.

Also, specifically to your thread title, yeah, I think DRK is the easiest of the three tanks.

yea my beef with flash is that its cool down is not as fast as unleash, so to me DRK feels easier and sometimes its difficult to hold a group of mobs even when you use provoke to get back a stray , i will usually have one or two go after the healer and i'll have to wait till either my flash or provoke is cool down. Does a really good geared healer have more enmity then an average geared paladin? I wonder if my problem mostly caused by gear

Without shield oath it can be annoying at times. I recently started getting war up past 18 and it feels like overpower is just flat out better than flash, even with positioning being a factor

Overpower feels better because it is. 120 potency and a 5x enmity modifier is 600 enmity, more than Flash's 500.
Leveling PLD to 22 for provoke was a massive pain in the ass.

PogueX,
Flash and Unleashed's cooldowns are exactly the same. They're both GCD moves, with 2.5 second cooldowns.
Healers don't generate more aggro than tanks unless you're uh.. you're bad.

Short answer: Yes. Long Answer: YES.

Single target threat is the occasional power slash combo mixed in with your dps combo. That doesn't change, ever, except you get more off GCD attacks as you level.

AOE threat for lower level dungeons is unleash spam. For higher levels it's abyssal drain spam.

Surviving damage is mitigated through very standard paladin style cooldowns. No masterful timing needed as with inner beast. The damage output is respectable. The only challenge factor that separates a brown belt from a black belt is if you can maintain darkside for the entirety of a dungeon, but the job is so forgiving that you don't need to. It's just the standard that separates an average DK from a great one.

TLDR: It's very difficult to be bad with a Dark Knight unless you're a complete goof.

Warrior is easier to cheese through. Overpower spam then a couple flashes, then do nothing and wait for TP to regen for next pack.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Warrior is easier to cheese through. Overpower spam then a couple flashes, then do nothing and wait for TP to regen for next pack.

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As a WAR, Steel Cyclone once or twice, Overpower once or twice then go AFK and come back when things are dead.

If all you want to do is hold aggro and let mobs beat on you, sure. But then, every tank is easy if all you care about is holding aggro.

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Originally Posted by PogueX

OP

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PLD and DRK play the same at lower levels. Just that Flash doesn't do damage. And yes, you should be spamming flash(about 3 times, more if you're out geared severely by your other PT members) then rotating through the mobs and hitting them with your enmity combo, more so the ones your DPS are focusing down. The only time this is difference is pre Rage of Halone, in which case spam flash and spam the Riot blade combo to get MP back ( it also does most damage until RoH). Level 50 is when DRK branches off and you need to start to worry about MP management.

And PLD is easier in terms of staying alive and doing large pulls. But is harder in terms of keeping hate.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Warrior is easier to cheese through. Overpower spam then a couple flashes, then do nothing and wait for TP to regen for next pack.

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this is the most absurd thing I've seen all day when we talk raids warrior is the most complex job it's sophisticated and used as such for multitasking dps and tanking and eating tank busters. There are 3 combos, there is proper Holmgang usage, there is yes, steel cyclone but to properly do all of this while effectively doing damage (700) in a raid is another story.. edit; now with decimate try a2 savage without a warrior dancing through stances not even mentioning fell cleave

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Originally Posted by fm_fenrir

Also, specifically to your thread title, yeah, I think DRK is the easiest of the three tanks.

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PLD actually would be the easiest because you don't have to manage your MP on PLD to maintain enmity.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

PLD actually would be the easiest because you don't have to manage your MP on PLD to maintain enmity.

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You don't have to manage your MP on DRK either. Power Slash is by far the most potent enmity combo out of the three tanks and it costs no MP. So even without Darkside, DRK would probably hold more enmity than PLD.

Both PLD and DRK need to "manage" their MP for AoE enmity.

But tanking difficulty isn't about holding hate. Since holding hate is the easiest thing in this game.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

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Granted you don't have to manage your mp to hold threat you do have to use it to put out good dps. While a pld simply stops using halone and instead uses authority. Neither pld or dark have an excuse to run out of mp on aoe. The have tools to make that a none issue. Pld is just by far the easiest in all aspects. You have flash for aoe and your combos for ST. Dark has constant mp drain as well as more options to burn resources for more damage. Both are easy but you can't even try to argue pld is even remotely complicated or requires nearly the forsight both dark and warrior require comparitively.

I feel like DRK has the easiest time when it comes to managing agro.

Unleash is like Flash but with magical damage attached to it. So it's better than Flash. Not to mention, when on Darkside in Grit, you are dealing 15% more damage than the other tanks and that adds to the enmity as well.

But DRK has more MP management and TP problems as well, not to mention you have less CD than a PLD and several oGCD abilities more than either, and I feel like I drop HP way too fast compared to PLD or WAR.

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Originally Posted by elemental10

I feel like DRK has the easiest time when it comes to managing agro.

Unleash is like Flash but with magical damage attached to it. So it's better than Flash. Not to mention, when on Darkside in Grit, you are dealing 15% more damage than the other tanks and that adds to the enmity as well.

But DRK has more MP management and TP problems as well, not to mention you have less CD than a PLD and several oGCD abilities more than either, and I feel like I drop HP way too fast compared to PLD or WAR.

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I noticed today that my mana issues pretty much vanished once I got a few decent upgrades and didn't have to AOE as much. Just using my delirium combo with the occasional C&S was enough to keep me at a healthy rate of mana regen. I also have to say that the changes to blood weapon were immediately noticeable during an A4 normal I pugged. Off tanking is a lot more fun when you don't have to keep begging for goads.

Ok i played the 3 tanks so.
For the pack War is the easier, then dark.pld (it's true in war you can even full domination in berserk and go AFK till mobs is dead...)
To Main Tanking Pld is the easier, and when you OT dps rotation is very simple, Dark play a lot like the pld, but he have a lot of offense CD, you still have to think to your def CD also.
If you want to output the best dps you can with your dark you have to manage your MP and let enough mp if you need them for your defense CD as well.
Realy i think it's harder than the pld.
Main Tanking with the war, it's not hard, just you have migitate sometimes with a GCD instead of only CD, it mean you have to be ready for tank buster pattern and not play only by reflex.
instead of that when you are used to your rotation, Stance swapping ect... it's easy.
Conclusion : Dark ask to player to play faster than with a War and a Pld

AoE tanking on PLD is significantly harder than DRK and WAR if you are trying to play your class right. You need to be very aware of general enmity because you only want to spam flash as much as needed. The rest of your GCDs go into GB upkeep on multiple mobs which generates no bonus enmity. It's the same as in ST situations where you only RoH enough to hold hate and RA otherwise. As a result, while the PLD has no real mana management in AoE situations since they will naturally regen enough through GB upkeep and Sheltron, they're like a SMN without bane when it comes to damage output.

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Originally Posted by Misha_Tameshigiri

"Is this class easier because I play it suboptimally?"
To actually answer your question:
With every tank the initial pull on trash is about the same. Ranged aggro grab (DRK's is umend, PLD = shield lob, WAR = tomahawk), AOE aggro grabber (Unleashed/Flash/Overpower) 3 times (or more if your DPS significantly outgears you), then you move into combos on single enemies, using defensive CDs and OGCDs as necessary. The goal here is to use your AOE aggro grabber as little as possible because for all classes it either costs a lot of TP (WAR/PLD) or MP (DRK), resources you could be using more efficiently.

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Flash uses MP.

My bad. I don't know what I was thinking. Post is edited now.

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Originally Posted by Brian_

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With a decent weapon that's not even a problem unless you have 2 dps that are burning separate adds which is a pain in the ass regardless of class. If you weave flash in your combos on occasion your threat on everyother mob will be so great you won't even need to RoH at all after the first couple. And imo spreading goring blade all over the place seems kinda silly to me when you could instead help the melee focus down the add there killing and apply goring to the next target they focus. The smn/blm/healers will be doing all the aoe no need to waste all that time spreading a dot when you could just help kill mobs with the melee reducing total pack size. Just my opening tho. Pld isn't good at aoe play to its strengths as apposed to it's weakness. Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

As a WAR, Steel Cyclone once or twice, Overpower once or twice then go AFK and come back when things are dead.

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"Hey, healer, I'm not gonna worry about actually tanking well. I'll just grab aggro and forget about tank dps. Don't worry about it. My hp pool is great!" -- attitude I got out of that post

Seriously, I would hate to have you tank WAR in an expert run. You'd be the idiot who never uses CDs.




To actually answer OP's question, it's not really easier or harder to pull trash on any tank. /shrug

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Originally Posted by Ralvenom

"Hey, healer, I'm not gonna worry about actually tanking well. I'll just grab aggro and forget about tank dps. Don't worry about it. My hp pool is great!" -- attitude I got out of that post

Seriously, I would hate to have you tank WAR in an expert run. You'd be the idiot who never uses CDs.

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Well, the post made it sound that having aggro on an AoE pack is all of a tank's job and so DRK would be easy. I was only suggesting an "easier" job. :p

Outside of that... As a tank on an expert duty finder group, I like to see that blue bar on my parser being at the top. So you'll find I'm one of those WARs that pop vengeance for the counter effect before mitigation if anything. lol

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

Well, the post made it sound that having aggro on an AoE pack is all of a tank's job and so DRK would be easy. I was only suggesting an "easier" job. :p

Outside of that... As a tank on an expert duty finder group, I like to see that blue bar on my parser being at the top. So you'll find I'm one of those WARs that pop vengeance for the counter effect before mitigation if anything. lol

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Good!

I just didn't want OP to get the idea that tank dps doesn't matter. Because it totally does.

I don't think it gets any more simple than Paladin. That said, despite potentially seeming overwhelming at first, DRK has been much easier than I anticipated. I mean outside of establishing and holding hate, all 3 tanks boil down to using one of 2/3 combos while using a unique mechanic in between. PLD has support, DRK has MP management, and WAR has 5 stacks and 2 stances to think about.

I think maybe DRK has a higher learning curve than WAR, but has a lower skill ceiling.

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Originally Posted by Misha_Tameshigiri

Overpower feels better because it is. 120 potency and a 5x enmity modifier is 600 enmity, more than Flash's 500.
Leveling PLD to 22 for provoke was a massive pain in the ass.

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It wasn't that bad for me, but going to 30 was very rough. For an aggro skill that was buffed before(Flash) it isn't enough to hold mobs on you for very long..