Sustain on SMN

Uh gonna cut to the point here, sustain is crap, it needs a boost, its really bad on ifrit-egi, since he likes every aoe and likes to be poisoned alot in melee range.

And before anyone says, no many don't want to use garuda, i prefer ifrits shield/stun.

Currently, the sustain gives us 3 ticks sometimes 4, clearly not enough to keep ifrit/titan up.

So yeah, needs a buff, id say 10% of summon's HP for 20 seconds.

Make it an OGCD toggle that drains MP.

Fixt.

Or, Big OR here, healers get good.

Medica 2 takes too much skill bro

If its not on my party list it doesn't get healed. Unless I literally have nothing better to do.

It's the SMNers job to look after their pet, give them the ability to do so.

I'd rather make Sustain a tick longer and then make Physic worth a damn at 60.

Summoners have better things to do than get deadlocked into spamming sustain, physic, summons on their pets constantly. Especially from unavoidable damage and damage the no pet can be trusted to evade (yes even Garuda is not safe just like any spellcaster who refuses to move).

On top of that you can see their HP bar by default simply by looking at them, unless you turned that off for some awful reason. >:|

Damage Dealers' job is to deal damage, NOT healing. Responsibilities change while solo.

Healers' job is to heal the entire party. Pets are a significant power to pet jobs, without them, they aren't good. Very simple to understand. Having to toss a pet a regen is nothing to get all pissy about. I easily do it on a whim cause it's THAT easy, most of the time by AoE healing. SMNs don't have to worry about pets dying, no sustain=happy SMN melting peoples faces with their pet in glee. I don't care if MCHs can bring their turrets back on whim, they're getting healed too. I'll even do it for SCH's pets even if he's my co healer, because if the fairy is hurt, then she will use embrace on herself, which is a terrible, TERRIBLE thing to let happen. None of this needs to be spelled out. But of course loads of healers just snooze about and be obsessed with DPS in this game.

I will say that I play a SCH and know exactly what you guys mean. I also play with a controller. I've tried healing a pet before, but 9 times out of 10 my target indicator will not highlight a SMN pet and after like 5 tries I give up and start worrying about the players more.

I will say that I play a SCH and know exactly what you guys mean. I also play with a controller. I've tried healing a pet before, but 9 times out of 10 my target indicator will not highlight a SMN pet and after like 5 tries I give up and start worrying about the players more.

SE should (or not?) put the pets on the healer's party HUD.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

SE should (or not?) put the pets on the healer's party HUD.

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I don't think it'd be a good idea....
Imagine an 8 man party with 4 summoners and 2 scholars.

OMG the insanity.

I can't target pets, that's turned off, only thing they get is a medica 2 and as stated, jobs with pets, its their job to look after them not anyone else's.

This is the reason why i would like a boost to sustain, because i should be the one looking after MY pet, not anyone else.

It's a healer's responsibility to make sure DPS have enough HP to do their damage (which includes pets). It's the DPS's job to make sure they have all their tools to do their job (which includes pets).

The only role you can argue it's not their responsibility are the tanks.

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Originally Posted by Saggo

It's a healer's responsibility to make sure DPS have enough HP to do their damage (which includes pets). It's the DPS's job to make sure they have all their tools to do their job (which includes pets).

The only role you can argue it's not their responsibility are the tanks.

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I've seen plenty of bad tanks lose aggro to egis.

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

I've seen plenty of bad tanks lose aggro to egis.

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If the tank is doing that, there are far greater issues than an egi dying.

Don't know how your pets are dying unless your white mage just isn't using medica 2 at all.

I would very much rather have sustain buffed up than rely on a healer to heal my pet. Maybe others disagree but I personally find it our responsibility to take care of our pets, but yea sustain is crap. Please give us something useful!

They shouldnt have nerfed sustain.

When healing I and I see ifrit I will usually regen him or throw a few embraces as needed but no reason for garuda to get healed.

AOE heals hit pets afaik and to people saying dont heal pet its not our responsibility,....yeah it isnt but I'd rather the smn had SC for other things as oppose to resummoning a pet that couldve been saved.

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Originally Posted by RiisWolf

Or, Big OR here, healers get good.

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Sorry but no, your own pet is your responsibility.
I already have enough issues with crazy people running into everything i don't need to focus on an hp bar above your pet as well (which is toggled off on my screen btw, hate clutter)

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Originally Posted by Alpha-Luna

I will say that I play a SCH and know exactly what you guys mean. I also play with a controller. I've tried healing a pet before, but 9 times out of 10 my target indicator will not highlight a SMN pet and after like 5 tries I give up and start worrying about the players more.

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This. Maybe a QOL adjustment where pets are on the healers party list? I don't know. But until they are easier to target on controller it's too much of a hassle to bother. Sorry xP

As a sch, I don't get the luxury of super long range aoe regen medica 2, so the whole git gud doesn't apply as much. I do know the issues with pets as I usually have to upkeep mine so it doesn't embrace itself. That said, it's not so much the aoe dmg that harms them, but secondary effects like bleed or poison. Neverreap wamouras will kill a pet easily with their poison cone (pet shouldn't be getting hit, but sometimes the tank turns it etc). It's easy to eye over an ifrit and see he needs a heal, but not so easy to see the poison and then target him..

I usually do all my targeting via keyboard while keeping my mouse use to a minimum, so having to mouse target a pet is a hassle, and it does cost me personal dps to heal the pet AND to make sure I'm also upkeeping the tank before I can go back into cleric stance.

Anyways, since I do most of my targeting via F# keys, it would be an easy fix to say hit F# to target the smn, then hit that F# key a second time to target the pet. This method would allow me to easily target a pet and more importantly it wouldn't clutter my pt window which already feels fairly full now that they added TP bars

"I do know the issues with pets as I usually have to upkeep mine so it doesn't embrace itself"

For some unknown reason I laughed too hard at this.
The targetting is even worse for controller users.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

"I do know the issues with pets as I usually have to upkeep mine so it doesn't embrace itself"

For some unknown reason I laughed too hard at this.
The targetting is even worse for controller users.

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It's most likely that aurum vale traumatized my sch back when pets were vulnerable to boss poison stacks and the fairy would move to a heal a dps while standing in that yellow acid for like 5 seconds and suiciding....Even now, if there's a reason to run AV, I rather go whm

It's pretty rare that a pet should be in danger. Very few attacks aside from those that are single target and those that cleave inflict significant damage to summons.

If I notice that something wonky is happening, like perhaps the tank unnecessarily spinning mobs around so that an egi is getting smacked in the face, I'll throw a Regen, direct an Embrace, or whatnot to help the SMN. In most cases the occasional AoE heal that just happens to fluff the summon does just fine, though.

However, I expect the SMN to do his/her part to manage the pet and place it so that it isn't eating easily avoidable damage. I'm not really inclined to babysit Ifrit, for example, if he's being force-fed all the tank cleaves just because the SMN can't be bothered to reposition him.

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Originally Posted by Assirra

Sorry but no, your own pet is your responsibility.

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That doesn't logically follow. Losing a pet is no different than a SMN or MCH getting a debuff on 20-something% damage or a SCH debuff that locks a third-is healing abilities.

It is not only a healer's responsibility to keep people alive but to also keep them fighting/healing at 100%, you do remove paralyze, bind, pacification, and all assortment of debuffs that don't kill but debilitate, don't you?

Obviously, if a person can remove their own debuff they will, and in that same regard as a pet owner I will do whatever I can to keep my pet alive. We all want the damage, heals, or buffs from a pet. But that doesn't waive the healer from ignoring a critical component of a job, even if there are obstacles in the way (like targeting). That only means people should be more forgiving if a pet dies (and most are).

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Originally Posted by Alpha-Luna

I will say that I play a SCH and know exactly what you guys mean. I also play with a controller. I've tried healing a pet before, but 9 times out of 10 my target indicator will not highlight a SMN pet and after like 5 tries I give up and start worrying about the players more.

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Set up a targeting filter for pets only and you can then pick them out really quickly to heal. I would much rather heal their pets than let them die and then the other person has to blow tons of mp and swiftcast or sit there hard casting summon. Much less detrimental for me to spend one gcd to toss it a regen or physick/embrace. If the person is having issues with continual bad placement then I will of course mention that as well.

Just a friendly reminder, if you go into your Character Configuration, Control Setting, under Target scroll to the bottom. There is a section called: Click Filter Settings. In this section, if you check Pets/Minions, you can then target said Pets or Minions, even with controller by pressing the Left or Right D-Pad buttons.

I do agree that Sustain should get a buff but, it is only a 1 second cast so, it really doesn't hinder the player's dps. No, it not the smn's responsibility to heal their pet, they are a dps class. However, they should learn proper placement of their pet. If their pet is badly positioned, a simple Heel command followed by Sic or an attack, or even Place will solve the issue.

But, keep in mind, all this comes with experience. The only way to get this experience is from practice, or Veteran Players that are willing to share in a helpful, productive fashion. Not just saying, "you suck", "git gud" and kick them. Hell, I didn't learn about Placing a pet until my first run of T-5, for soak team. So, how can I expect a newer player to know about it, if I didn't learn it until after I was 50?

My point is, if someone doesn't know something that is important or could benefit them and/or the team, take/make the time to help and teach them. A few minutes before the pull, could save a wipe....

As a WHM/AST I must say "git gud" isn't the answer. I am using Medica II and Aspected helios to help keep the pets up of course, but unless i can safely target your pet (which can be quite difficult for us controller players) without having the tank nearly die or die, even, i'm glad to pop a regen or cure on your pet. But of all the things we need to heal, your pet is our lowest priority.

Tanks>Healers>DPS>NPCs of import (such as Estinien in the Aery)>Other players pets.

i sent an ingame suggestion about this the other day

i dont think its a healers job to worry about my pet nope, not at all...they have the players to worry about.

however in wow as hunter i can massively heal my pet on my own and spam it if need be...as it should be imo.

sustain is a horribly weak spell and it shoud be buffed immensely.

also titan specifically is a terrible "tank", he needs to be more like the tanking pets in wow..you know actually take many hits before needing to be healed and hold hate O.o hes weak in dps (which is ok) but extremely weak in tanking abilities, keeping hate, and takes hits like a mage

(sorry for mentioning "that" game but they got it right when it comes to a pet job, spot on and ffxiv needs to learn from them in this area.)

agree op 100%

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Originally Posted by MistyMew

i dont think its a healers job to worry about my pet nope, not at all...they have the players to worry about.

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Pets directly adds to DPS, HPS, and buffs, in that regard worrying about players means worrying about pets. They're just not highest priority.

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Originally Posted by MistyMew

sustain is a horribly weak spell and it shoud be buffed immensely.

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I wouldn't call if weak, it heals basically a quarter of their health for a single cast. That's pretty good.

It's true that it's not good enough as our only tool. It either needs better potency or Physick needs to be just plain better.

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Originally Posted by Saggo

Pets directly adds to DPS, HPS, and buffs, in that regard worrying about players means worrying about pets. They're just not highest priority.

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They are not a priority at all for the healers. This is your responsibility. Suck it up or switch jobs. If your egi keeps getting killed then go with Garuda or level thm up enough to have the insta cast spell to bring it back. If your egi is about to die then that means the raid wide damage is high. No healer has the time to play your class for you at a time like that.

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Originally Posted by Saggo

I wouldn't call if weak, it heals basically a quarter of their health for a single cast. That's pretty good.

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Actually, as someone who played a hunter in WoW, sustain is weaker than dishwater. You don't understand the comparison being made here. It's night and day. I picked SMN for my first class because I like pet classes but FFXIV's SMNers have it really, really bad. Not only do hunters (and warlocks) in WoW have stronger healing spells, they can augment it to make them stronger if there's a need for that. There are several talents that translate damage into healing on top of that and they're smart DPSers. They take only about 10% of damage while in raids and they actively avoid spells and telegraphs. The tank pets will even turn the mob away from you like any normal tank would AND their taunts are super effective. So much so that they can compete with player tanks. There are also spells to dump all hate to either the pet or the tank instantly. To top it all off, spirit beasts will even heal you or themselves without you needing to do anything.

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Originally Posted by Alisi

Suck it up or switch jobs.

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I can say the same to healers (which I play). Their job is not just keeping a player alive. They keep them functional too.

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Originally Posted by Alisi

You don't understand the comparison being made here.

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Thanks, but I do.

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Originally Posted by Alisi

Not only do hunters (and warlocks) in WoW have stronger healing spells, they can augment it to make them stronger if there's a need for that. There are several talents that translate damage into healing on top of that and they're smart DPSers. They take only about 10% of damage while in raids and they actively avoid spells and telegraphs. The tank pets will even turn the mob away from you like any normal tank would AND their taunts are super effective. So much so that they can compete with player tanks. There are also spells to dump all hate to either the pet or the tank instantly. To top it all off, spirit beasts will even heal you or themselves without you needing to do anything.

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And none of that makes Sustain weak. 24% HP from one spell is not weak.

The problem is just one spell is not enough.

And I played warlock and hunter, too, since street cred matters.

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Originally Posted by Saggo

I can say the same to healers (which I play). Their job is not just keeping a player alive. They keep them functional too.

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No, it isn't. It's to get the team to the finish line. That's all. If everyone is alive, then AWESOME. If that means I have to let you die because you're costing me MP that I can't waste, then so be it.

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Originally Posted by Saggo

The problem is just one spell is not enough.

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Yeah... This is what I just said. That's why I included a whole list. I never said Sustain was weak. I said WoW had many, many other things that help with their pet classes.

Some vampirics (esp. to Ifrit) and the ability to extend Sustain (e.g. starts as an instant but can be charged for up to 2.5 seconds for extra duration) should be more than enough to keep pets alive when functioning only as dps without making Summoner able to tank content it wasn't designed for. At worst, add a bit more magic defense to Garuda and a bit more physical defense to Ifrit and make all pets regenerate health at an increased rate. Still can't tank, but they won't need healer intervention.

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Originally Posted by Alisi

No, it isn't. It's to get the team to the finish line. That's all. If everyone is alive, then AWESOME. If that means I have to let you die because you're costing me MP that I can't waste, then so be it.

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Great. By that logic I can stop using Leeches and Esuna on Pacification, Paralyze, Bind, etc. This will save me a lot of work.

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Originally Posted by Alisi

Yeah... This is what I just said. That's why I included a whole list. I never said Sustain was weak. I said WoW had many, many other things that help with their pet classes.

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Glad we can agree. Still has nothing to do with with 24% HP in one spell being weak.

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Originally Posted by Saggo

Great. By that logic I can stop using Leeches and Esuna on Pacification, Paralyze, Bind, etc. This will save me a lot of work.

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LMAO. Right. /pat

Although I put Regen on my co-healer Fairies and on some pets when I have enough time, I really think pets weren't designed to need any heals besides the ones from its owner. You should ask for a buff to Sustain, defense or HP regeneration on pets, not "blame it on the healers". If we were truly supposed to heal pets, they would be on our party list too, not only yours.