DRK: Dark Dance

I think this would be a much cooler spell if it was changed too...

Dark Dance: Defensive Version
Parry the next two attacks.
Restore MP for each attack parried.
Duration: 7 seconds.
Recast: 15 seconds.
Can only be used in Darkside.

Or


Dark Dance: Offensive Version
Increases Parry Chance by 40%.
Delivers an attack with a potency of 50 every time you parry.
Duration: 10 seconds.
Recast: 20 seconds.
Can only be used in Darkside.

Remove the Darkside+Darkside Evasion from it.

This would make it a lot better to the class.

I would much rather it be changed to...

Sheltron Dark Dance:
Parries the next physical attack.
Partial MP restored upon parry.
Duration: 20 seconds.
Recast: 30 seconds.
Can only be used in Darkside.

It's annoying when 3 out of 10 pulls leave me with no parry or Reprisal proc to mitigate a big cleave.

Talathion, I feel like that's the same person who trolled eq2 flames... Lol maybe somebody else, I'll have to check... Lol

I really don't see what they were thinking adding an evasion bonus to it with darkarts when we need a parry to get the proc for reprisal and it didn't help that it is off gcd. But given the way shield swipe works on PLD if reprisal was on gcd wed rarely give the debuff.

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Originally Posted by Dererk

I really don't see what they were thinking adding an evasion bonus to it with darkarts when we need a parry to get the proc for reprisal and it didn't help that it is off gcd. But given the way shield swipe works on PLD if reprisal was on gcd wed rarely give the debuff.

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Not to mention we want to get hit for blood price

I'd rather it be turned into something like this

Dark Dance: Parries the next physical attack within 10s and returns a percentage of the amount parried as Unaspected Magic Damage. Dark Arts Effect: Dark Dance will now parry the next magical attack within 10s.

I'd rather it stay as it is. Works pretty well with any defense cool down in dungeons or raids.

WHile I know it's neither optimal or mana efficient, I really do like the feel of combining DA+DD and DA+DP. It's just really fun to see Dodge fly through the text in rapid succession.

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Originally Posted by Seku

I'd rather it stay as it is. Works pretty well with any defense cool down in dungeons or raids.

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Except it's a weaker version of Keen Flurry and lacks any form of consistency thereby making it an awful CD without the use of Dark Arts. It amounts to a 6% damage reduction if you use it without Dark Arts, which puts it slightly below Foresight in terms of mitigation. Foresight is also consistent. Furthermore, evasion lacks synergy with Blood Price as well as our parry mechanics.

Dodging is also counterproductive to our abilities.

We need less "Dark Art" abilities. We are pretty mana starved as is.

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Originally Posted by SpecialKK

Not to mention we want to get hit for blood price

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You shouldn't be using it with blood price in the first place. It's best to rotate between the two to avoid situations like the one you're suggesting.

Also, people tend to under mind the usefulness that DA + DD brings. A 20% chance to evade ANY incoming damage? Evasion is the best form of mitigation in the game (outside of Pld's HG). And it's only 20% of the time (so around 1/5 attacks) so you most likely WILL be getting some of those incoming attacks to proc reprisal and low blow's reset. And you'll only be able to get off 1 reprisal during the duration of Dark Dance anyways and that's assuming reprisal's CD is about to end. All in all Dark Dance is a VERY solid ability that people tend to overlook as not all that good...but people also forget that the 20% evasion applies to both physical and magical. And because of that it can be said that every defensive CD that Drk has can, in some way or form, mitigate any and all magic attacks, which is also what makes Drk the best tank in terms of magic mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Agrieus

Evasion is the best form of mitigation in the game (outside of Pld's HG).

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If only evasion worked where it matters.

But even if it worked, evasion will never be the best form of mitigation as long as you cannot reliably avoid the damage you want to avoid.

Let's assume you have 5 mobs attacking you, four of them are doing 3k per hit, the last one is doing 500 per hit, 20% evasion is a chance to avoid 1/5, assuming that it's a static rate (meaning you will ALWAYS avoid one of the 5 attacks), and you only avoid the 500 hits but eat the 4 x 3k hits. You are NOT reducing damage by 20%. (Same reason why parry and block are also considered poop. And parry/block don't completely negate damage).

Yes I know this is an extreme example, but it happens where you only avoid the weakest attacks but eat all the big ones.

On the other hand, Rampart (20% total DPS reduction) for example will always be better than 20seconds of 20% evasion because of reliability.

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Originally Posted by Agrieus

You shouldn't be using it with blood price in the first place. It's best to rotate between the two to avoid situations like the one you're suggesting.

Also, people tend to under mind the usefulness that DA + DD brings. A 20% chance to evade ANY incoming damage?

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A 20% chance to evade MP recovery, I sure do want that.

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Originally Posted by Disc

A 20% chance to evade MP recovery, I sure do want that.

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.....Then I'll ask the obvious question here.....why are you using Blood Price with DA + DD when you already know that if you dodge the attack you won't get any mp back? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic to everyone else that's doing this or your just running two defensive utilities at incorrect times and complaining about it...

And Phoenicia, your point is absolutely vaild and I don't feel the need to take it further as you do understand the purpose behind evasion mitigation. Just don't forget that with the ability, you still get a parry rate increase as well (which still grants you access to possible repeated use of low blow stuns and reprisal). With that being said, it's better to compare this ability to something like Bulwark rather than rampart since Drk already has Shadowskin which is literally the same thing as rampart. See what I mean? It's like Bulwark but potentially better since you now have the possibility of dodging something like a tank buster that works for both physical and magical attacks. It may not be completely reliable, but when you dodge stuff like Discoid in A4 or repeated Flare Breaths from T13....it's a glorious thing.

And if people can't see how useful this can really be...then too bad for them.

Oh yeah...completely forgot to mention the extra benefit from DA + Dark passenger's blind effect. That helps out even more.
But yeah, in short...don't be that guy/gal that used blood price with boosted dark dance....use some sense.

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Originally Posted by Agrieus

stuff

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Blood Price won't proc unless you get hit.
Parry won't proc unless you get hit.
Reprisal won't be usable unless you parry.
Low blow won't proc unless you parry.

More then a few issues. :'3

I would rather Dark Knights get a "special" block that blocks damage and reduces it or a "ward" that regenerates.

Its counterproductive.

You aren't going to be dodging any tank busters any time soon either. You can dodge some Primal attacks but you never were able to dodge anything in Coil and it looks to be the exact same situation with Alex Savage.

And even if you could, you can't dodge magic so pretty much every tank buster in Alex Savage is out.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Blood Price won't proc unless you get hit.
Parry won't proc unless you get hit.
Reprisal won't be usable unless you parry.
Low blow won't proc unless you parry.

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That only applies if you actually evade the attack and if the attack was even physical to begin with. A4 is a good example. The only time you'd even get a chance at getting a reprisal is when the adds spawn or your OT in quarantine. And don't mention DD with blood price. I've been over that twice already.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

You aren't going to be dodging any tank busters any time soon either. You can dodge some Primal attacks but you never were able to dodge anything in Coil and it looks to be the exact same situation with Alex Savage.

And even if you could, you can't dodge magic so pretty much every tank buster in Alex Savage is out.

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Incorrect since evasion applies to both physical and magical. And yes, it DOES work on tank busters. It never worked in previous coils because evasion was never a thing that anybody ever used before due to the lack of access to such an ability outside of feather foot, but nobody every bothered with feather foot since it was only a 12% chance to begin with....and Monks aren't tanks. Lastly, Dark Knight's weren't around.

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Originally Posted by Agrieus

Incorrect since evasion applies to both physical and magical. And yes, it DOES work on tank busters. It never worked in previous coils because evasion was never a thing that anybody ever used before due to the lack of access to such an ability outside of feather foot, but nobody every bothered with feather foot since it was only a 12% chance to begin with....and Monks aren't tanks. Lastly, Dark Knight's weren't around.

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Warriors have access to Feather Foot...

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Warriors have access to Feather Foot...

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Yes, a 12% that nobody has ever bothered trying to use....which I also just said....

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Originally Posted by Agrieus

Incorrect since evasion applies to both physical and magical. And yes, it DOES work on tank busters. It never worked in previous coils because evasion was never a thing that anybody ever used before due to the lack of access to such an ability outside of feather foot, but nobody every bothered with feather foot since it was only a 12% chance to begin with....and Monks aren't tanks. Lastly, Dark Knight's weren't around.

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It does not work on end game level tank busters at level cap.... go into T13 as a level 50 warrior or dark knight and try to dodge flattens... go into A1 savage and try to dodge compressions... you can't. Half of dark dance is useless where it actually matters. It's ok on trash if you wanna burn mp but that's it. And there's a reason Noone uses feather foot end games and that's because it's garbage

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Originally Posted by LordHousewife

Except it's a weaker version of Keen Flurry and lacks any form of consistency thereby making it an awful CD without the use of Dark Arts. It amounts to a 6% damage reduction if you use it without Dark Arts, which puts it slightly below Foresight in terms of mitigation. Foresight is also consistent. Furthermore, evasion lacks synergy with Blood Price as well as our parry mechanics.

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You shouldn't be using it with DA with a few exceptions, nor should you be using it alone. It also has a shorter cool down than Keen flurry.

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Originally Posted by Agrieus

.....Then I'll ask the obvious question here.....why are you using Blood Price with DA + DD when you already know that if you dodge the attack you won't get any mp back? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic to everyone else that's doing this or your just running two defensive utilities at incorrect times and complaining about it...

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The only time the mitigation from 20% evasion would be worth wasting Dark Arts on is in group pulls. You will have Blood price up for most of that & see a loss in MP. If you use it against dungeon bosses you've lost a DA attack bonus & potential Low Blow procs for unnecessary mitigation. If you use it in raids you're just wasting everybody's time.

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Originally Posted by Agrieus

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You realize evasion is useless in raid content as nothing can be evaded right? I am not sure what you are trying to justify with Dark Dance having evasion on it. It's a skill that increases your chance to parry but to parry you need to get hit. If you don't get hit, you don't parry and you lose a central part of your kit. What part of this makes sense to you? Yes, it's useful when you're tanking trash in dungeons but that is it. As it stands right now, DRK has 3 skills worth using Dark Arts on in raid content right now: Souleater, Dark Mind, and Carve and Spit. Power Slash is a total joke so you can forget about ever using Dark Arts on that. You might use Dart Arts on Abyssal Drain in A2S if your mana is recovering too fast, but that's it as it is far too costly. Both Dark Dance and Dark Passenger have effects that are fantastic, but not on DRK and not for content that renders them uselss. Dark Arts is one of the central parts of DRK so why would you give them 2 Dark Arts effects that are counter productive to sustaining your Dark Arts via Blood Price and useless in raid content? It makes no sense and should be changed.

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Originally Posted by Seku

You shouldn't be using it with DA with a few exceptions, nor should you be using it alone. It also has a shorter cool down than Keen flurry.

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So basically I should never be using it is what you are saying. Don't use it with DA and don't use it without DA? That doesn't really make much sense. Also LNC isn't a tank. You can't really compare the defensive cooldown of a DPS to a defensive cooldown of a tank and use that as a means to justify poor design. A DRK is meant to take DMG while a LNC is not.

I think he meant to use it with something else, like another cooldown. Which is a flaw in itself. We're blowing dance, spending costly mp, AND we still gotta use it with something else?

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Originally Posted by Agrieus

Snips on multiple posts.

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I mentioned Rampart as it was an example of 20% damage reduction. I should've said Shadowskin and kept it on DRK's kit. Both skills serve my purpose of how "reliable" 20% damage reduction works against unreliable 20% evasion.

Only boss you can dodge on in Coil was the Caduceus in T1 IIRC. You can't dodge anything else after that.

No, dodge doesn't work endgame. Featherfoot was 20% iirc lasting 12s on WAR and 20s on monk. It got changed in HW to last 20s always but be 12% on none monks and 20% on monks. I could be wrong though. I remember I CC'd it because it looked attractive until I realized it didn't work.

Only way to dodge a physical end game is with a forced dodge check, like the old Perfect Dodge. The reason it dodged is because it "forced" the dodge check before the damage check, otherwise raid boss attacks do not check for evasion.

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Originally Posted by LordHousewife

You realize evasion is useless in raid content as nothing can be evaded right?

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Are we playing the same game? In every single 3.0 8-man Raid you can dodge SOMETHING in the fight, even if it just only bosses auto attacks.

Also you could dodge Twintania's auto attacks and plummet in T5 using Featherfoot on WAR. I remember this because we tried to featherfoot death sentence a million times before we gave up because it couldn't be evaded after we had dodged plummet a few times.

The problem with Dark Dance specifically is that it forces you to do a Delerium instead of DA SE costing you 120 potency ; ;

Increase parry rate to 100%, with each hit parried decrease chance by 20%, if used under dark arts swaps parry with critical hit rate.

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Originally Posted by Agrieus

Yes, a 12% that nobody has ever bothered trying to use....which I also just said....

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Featherfoot is good >.>. I would love to have Featherfoot on DRK.

It would be nice to get a buff to DD though, it feels like it is not helping me not take damage. I pop DD on and I'm still taking a lot of damage ><, maybe just my luck :p.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Featherfoot is good >.>. I would love to have Featherfoot on DRK..

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You have a better version of Featherfoot called "Dark Arts + Dark Dance."

But you know, it's still awful because Evasion is barely a step up from parry due to RNG.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

You have a better version of Featherfoot called "Dark Arts + Dark Dance."

But you know, it's still awful because Evasion is barely a step up from parry due to RNG.

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I'm only 41 DRK, I don't have access to all these abilities everyone is referring to because everyone assumes everyone else who is wanting to play their Job better is max level >.>.

I would be happy if they made dark dance into sheltron, just with a parry instead of an all out block. Would make it so much better to have a guaranteed reprisal every 30 seconds imo. One of the only complaints I have for DRK is that it's too reliant on parry (aka RNG).

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

I'm only 41 DRK, I don't have access to all these abilities everyone is referring to because everyone assumes everyone else who is wanting to play their Job better is max level >.>.

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That's because anything before 50 and 60 isn't playing the class fully and none of the pre-50 content even requires you to play your class all that well to beat, so even if you play it perfectly the benefit is marginal.

Also if you're not max rank you can't really comment on how the class plays since you don't have all the tools the class uses.

And evasion tanking is still awful.