Spellspeed weight on HoTs doesn't make sense

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...9cBDAQ/pubhtml

In short, on a 100 regen tick test i healed less with +25 spellspeed than without the food bonus (sohm al tart), while i expected the difference between with and without buffs to be insignificant, i expected at least the average healed with food to be a tiny bit higher. Such thing was not verified.
I even recorded the ticks and ran through them a frame count, spellspeed did not affect the ticking speed either.

Edit : Assuming rng gods decided to bless me with max hits i decided to take a look at individual values rather than to the whole thing together (average). It seems 25 ss increased the most ticket HoT from 1117 to 1144 which makes a rough 1:1 scale. But the overall average makes spellspeed still a pretty bad stat lol.

There is nowhere near enough data there for you to say that SpSp negatively affects healing. Sure, the stat isn't great, but you will need a vast amount more data to prove what you are stating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarkerOrange

There is nowhere near enough data there for you to say that SpSp negatively affects healing. Sure, the stat isn't great, but you will need a vast amount more data to prove what you are stating.

---

A 100 sample is enough to determine if there is a slight change or not, the only reason to raise the sample to 500 or even 1000 is if we're trying to determine the exact stat value which isn't really the case. Considering most weapons these days have 100 ish spellspeed, it's still surprising a quarter of that has absolutely no visible impact, at least if there is any, is completely overshadowed by the min-max rng.

Honestly... the spellspeed change was for SMNs. Healers just got pulled along for the ride.

The reason you need huge sample sizes, however, is that you're trying to cancel out built in RNG on each tick. Weapon attacking rating is the strongest stat, main stat (MND) coming it far behind that but still being the most appreciable. Offstats, in turn, come in far behind main stats... and thus are very weak... so to notice it, you'll need a much bigger difference, or a ton of data. Compared to offstats' effect, the random number generator's influence is huge.

I suspect to get accurate date you are going to need not so much a larger sample size but a much larger gap in spell speed between the two tests. I would test this on an astro where you can arrow yourself for 60 seconds (though if you didn't detect any change you might reason that arrow is bugged). Likewise Astro has a built in 5% spell speed bonus you can tinker with.

25 is just too small a number from what I have seen on spell speed increments to detect a change.

If you want to figure out the difference, get a high/low tick sample size ignoring criticals, the ratio should be very close to 21/19. Then add at least 64 SpS and go again. For DoT ticks, you gain about 1% increase from every 64ish SpS (the same percentage that your GCD decreases by).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Katlyna

I would test this on an astro where you can arrow yourself for 60 seconds (though if you didn't detect any change you might reason that arrow is bugged). Likewise Astro has a built in 5% spell speed bonus you can tinker with.

---

Arrow doesn't change DoT damage, I doubt it changes HoT damage.

This is an older thread, Dervy did a thing on this.

(1+(skillspeed-354)*0.000138 was the modifier equation he came up with

This thread is bad and you should feel bad. Stouter Taru points it out perfectly. For every 1% you reduce your GCD by, you also increase the potency of your DoTs and HoTs by 1%. This is an exponential gain, and iirc somewhere around 800 SpS Aero will start doing better damage than Stone III.

Also lol @ 100 casts. You need a minimum of 1000 to have a clue of what's actually happening. Spells naturally deviate by around 5-10% of their average, and a single crit skews the sample. Iirc the blitzball damage calculator we used to have before dervy took about 3k samples.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

This is an older thread, Dervy did a thing on this.
(1+(skillspeed-354)*0.000138 was the modifier equation he came up with

---

Yea this is a really old thread, i did the test a weekish after sps was changed. That formula helps though, if its correct then you'll need 354 sps to see a +1 health on your regen per tick... that's really bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sabeta

This thread is bad and you should feel bad. Stouter Taru points it out perfectly. For every 1% you reduce your GCD by, you also increase the potency of your DoTs and HoTs by 1%. This is an exponential gain, and iirc somewhere around 800 SpS Aero will start doing better damage than Stone III.

Also lol @ 100 casts. You need a minimum of 1000 to have a clue of what's actually happening. Spells naturally deviate by around 5-10% of their average, and a single crit skews the sample. Iirc the blitzball damage calculator we used to have before dervy took about 3k samples.

---

If spellspeed was good you'd see results after a sample of 10, i could even sit a week and check 100000 non crits, i would only get a fairer average due to the min/max differences. Also no crits on that test.

This is also not about dots, its about hots. And i highly doubt 800 sps will make up 60 potency difference that separates aero from stone III mainly when sps will affect more stone IIIs per min than actual dot damage as you won't get more dot ticks per min.

Well no, that's not how the modifier equation works. 354 is base SS so that's why that is there.

The resulting number you get from that equation is what you multiply the potency of the Dot or Hot by.

So with 800 SS, you get a 1.061548 modifier.

So your hot potency is roughly 6% more potent

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

Well no, that's not how the modifier equation works. 354 is base SS so that's why that is there.
The resulting number you get from that equation is what you multiply the potency of the Dot or Hot by.
So with 800 SS, you get a 1.061548 modifier.
So your hot potency is roughly 6% more potent

---

Wasn't considering it as a modifier, in that case the 25 I used on november, by that formula should have a 0,954598 mod so a ~0,18% (or a increase every 2 V melds).
Btw mind linking where dervy did the study? Want to check it properly and can't find anything on his blog about hots.

Well his blog was about dots, but dots/hots are treated the same way in this game (potency every server tick) so there should be no difference.

https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/2015/...-gcd-and-dots/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

Well his blog was about dots, but dots/hots are treated the same way in this game (potency every server tick) so there should be no difference.

https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/2015/...-gcd-and-dots/

---

Alright i'll give it a check, thank you.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Sucks-for-HoT