Tank DPS is the least of your issues.

Considering all these tank dps threads there is something being lost between the lines.

YOUR GROUP IS NOT ELYSIUM OR LUCREZIA!

Does your group put in 18 hours a day spend all that money on draconian pots for every pull in that 18 hour stretch?

What they don't? Sorry tank dps is the least of your worries when it comes to clearing.

Tank dps is a thing but the main point is that the above groups put in so much time and effort that the little switch outs made a difference.

Yes some tanks do a little more then others but it isn't this that's not making you clear. Not everyone can be like the top tier raid groups.

Only posting this here because its mainly the tank community crying about it.

Just let your groups gear progress each week and things will get there. If you want to win like the above groups put in all that time and you will eventually get the results and clears you desire.

I'm going to be flamed for this but I really do get tired of people forgetting something fundamental.

Anyone can do it just all about the skill of your raid force as well as your own.

If you're in a static, you're in a team.

Do you go into content constantly expecting to make no progress until the stars align and weeks later you'll maybe get your first clear because you happened to get enough gear to push your DPS to non-abysmal levels?

If so, please find 7 other people that feel the same way and join their static.

If your group wants to actually put in some semblance of effort and you've decided "Naaaaaah, I'm just gonna chill and wait for gear to push me to the point where we can actually clear this", then you're frankly just being selfish and not a team player.

If you, as a tank, are interested in optimizing your DPS then you belong in a group of like-minded individuals who also want to optimize their job and make steady progress clearing content. If you aren't interested in this, then there are probably others out there who share your mindset and would be happy to be in your static.

I don't think either team is "bad", they're both interested in different aspects of raiding, but I don't think you can mix and match both types of players and expect things to go well. You are in a team, and if your team expects you to optimize your job then it's up to you to decide whether you want to rise to that expectation or leave and join another group.

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Originally Posted by AshaCat

Considering all these tank dps threads there is something being lost between the lines.

YOUR GROUP IS NOT ELYSIUM OR LUCREZIA!

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You're right, but I've got a solution for this problem. More DPS!

You just typed a wall of text while completely ignoring the point. If you spend all the time and still don't clear its not the jobs that are the issue which what the community seem to be crying about. It has nothing to do with most of what you just said. People in this community are crying because they can't do it and are all trying to point at PLD being bad... Well groups have cleared with it so clearly that tanks dps was ok! I guess I shouldn't have made this if people arnt even going to try and get the point and make a point completely unrelated.

Your point was somewhat valid, but the way you presented it was terrible. Declaring DPS as a non-issue because you aren't in a world first group is a self-defeating attitude that will make sure you're one of the last to clear. No different than the scrubs complaining that they can't clear because X job rather than looking into the specific mechanics or DPS checks stopping them.

*sigh*... another one of these threads.

Tank DPS is very important. Maximizing your DPS as a tank is a thing. And if you think otherwise, the others already told you what to do.

The difference between one tank's maximum DPS and another tank's maximum DPS is not as important as it is for bleeding edge raiding. But on an individual level, dishing out the max DPS you can as a tank is ALWAYS very important.

Now if you'll excuse me, it's getting boring with all the complaining about tank DPS.

Well that isnt my attitude I do enjoy progression and do push to try actually clear and put the time in. But I guarantee the mass of people who are crying over Tank dps probably are not and are just jumping on bandwagons

Yes tank DPS is a thing I did not say it wasnt....

Oh, so you're referring to PLD vs DRK vs WAR, not actually maximizing DPSing as a tank. Gotcha, my mistake, misinterpreted your initial post.

Uh.

Yep. PLD has cleared up to A3S, so all tanks are viable. Didn't know people were actually pretending like PLD's DPS is somehow a crux, weapons are out now and nothing outside of potentially A4S is going to hinder PLD. There's a lot of factors in play as well, there are many PLDs out there who can out-DPS a large chunk of DRKs/WARs. It really comes down to player skill more than anything and how comfortable you are on that particular job. Min/max DPS is really only for world first raiders, things will eventually even out for everyone as there's no mechanic currently that renders any of the tanks completely unusable.

Even after clearing content, improving my performance is a huge goal of mine in each raid each week. The best metric for that is dps. Meeting basic tank requirements is pretty easy.. Once you know where to apply cool downs, etc, then the main difference in my performance week 1 to 2 to 3 and so on is how much damage I do, obviously without it being an issue to anyone.

So yea I'm gonna focus on increasing my dps each week within the limits I am allowed in my group.

I am sick to death of terrible tanks turning themselves into paper tigers, dying on the first pull before they could even run stupidly to the next one, then blaming the healer even though they didn't use a single defensive cooldown.
All just so they can shave a whole minute off their Fractal or Neverreap run.
But then, the kind of people who do this, probably don't like 'conversations' or 'reading,' so they'll sadly never read this, OP.

I don't see whats so hard to understand honestly it has NOTHING repeat NOTHING to do with how good ANY of the tanks DPS is PLD could be numero uno beating every DRG to top DPS slot for all my point cares.

If your group isn't good enough you could have perfect rotations the best DPS your class can do.... Maybe its your group failing not your DPS, stop looking at the tank classes themselves and thinking they fail... they all work groups have won and will keep winning with all combinations... maybe they just don't work for your group. Or maybe your group just isn't good enough in the gear you have.

Some people who cry about tank dps don't even main tank themselves. they just look at numbers and go. Oh this and this is best, we dont need this. That's just stupid.
Raids can be done with any composition with enough gear, the only reason why progression groups who aims to be first like lucrezia needs as much dps as possible is because they go into a raid while under geared. Hell even lucrezia have a PLD in their group and manage to get world first on as1. We players that dont aim to be them can just use whatever we want since we can get gears and play. Some people are just plain stupid

Typical I-Don't-Care-About-My-DPS Tank's Keyboard inputs:

4 123 123 123 123 123 123 123 123 123 123 123 ...

Sounds really fun.

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Originally Posted by Blueskyy

Some people who cry about tank dps don't even main tank themselves. they just look at numbers and go. Oh this and this is best, we dont need this. That's just stupid.
Raids can be done with any composition with enough gear, the only reason why progression groups who aims to be first like lucrezia needs as much dps as possible is because they go into a raid while under geared. Hell even lucrezia have a PLD in their group and manage to get world first on as1. We players that dont aim to be them can just use whatever we want since we can get gears and play. Some people are just plain stupid

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You realize part of the complaints comes from Lucrezia dropping their PLD for AS3 because they weren't doing enough DPS, right?

It's not just the world first groups that need more DPS. Any group struggling to meet a DPS check needs more DPS. And, a lot more than top progression groups have that issue.

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Originally Posted by AshaCat

I don't see whats so hard to understand honestly it has NOTHING repeat NOTHING to do with how good ANY of the tanks DPS is PLD could be numero uno beating every DRG to top DPS slot for all my point cares.

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If your tanks can do 600 dps rather than 300, that's 600 group dps your healers/dps won't have to grind if you miss them. Not sure why you would recommend anyone to do less dps than they can do.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

If your tanks can do 600 dps rather than 300, that's 600 group dps your healers/dps won't have to grind if you miss them. Not sure why you would recommend anyone to do less dps than they can do.

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Your reading comprehension fails to grasp my point doesn't care what any tank can do in dps tanks are raving about their dps and how good or bad tanks are... try to get it through your tiny little brain that I'm saying you could have 2 wars both doing 1k each if the rest f your raid sucks your still going to fail so maybe your own tank dps is not the issue and stop worrying sooooo much if you know your fine rather then coming onto the board crying for other tanks to be nerfed or buffed.

This just seems like its not going to end well. As a tank, i don't judge myself on dps either, as i have plenty of options that, while it would enhace my damage, would cause problems for myself and the healers.

If im the one taking the hits , Dps is secondary or tertiary.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

This just seems like its not going to end well. As a tank, i don't judge myself on dps either, as i have plenty of options that, while it would enhace my damage, would cause problems for myself and the healers.

If im the one taking the hits , Dps is secondary or tertiary.

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I do judge myself on DPS but I'm just saying the way the boards freak out is stupid and doesn't really make sense.

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Originally Posted by AshaCat

try to get it through your tiny little brain .

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First of all, you have to calm down.
Take a big breath before every answer.

Then, while if the whole party sucks the Tanks dps is irrilevant, in case of progress (No, not only First world kill) in my experience and in my static clear every bit of dps helped a lot. Yeah, even tanks and Scholar's one. Sometimes to push a phase further or to kill a trash add faster.

Obv you have to judge the enviroment. If in MY party, with MY healer the tanking part is safe then i can help with more dps. The goal of the whole thing is doing the best,pushing dps while the aggro/mitigation management is going on.

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Originally Posted by Mattiux

First of all, you have to calm down.
Take a big breath before every answer.

Then, while if the whole party sucks the Tanks dps is irrilevant, in case of progress (No, not only First world kill) in my experience and in my static clear every bit of dps helped a lot. Yeah, even tanks and Scholar's one. Sometimes to push a phase further or to kill a trash add faster.

Obv you have to judge the enviroment. If in MY party, with MY healer the tanking part is safe then i can help with more dps. The goal of the whole thing is doing the best,pushing dps while the aggro/mitigation management is going on.

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Who said I wasn't calm its just telling people to read the whole thing rather then read the first line and ignore the rest. The post he replied to wasn't actually that long. the ability of the healers largely depicts how crazy you can be as a tank to push dps but the way this community whines they feel they should all be able to do what Elysium Lucrezia etc do. Fine compare yourself to them but if your doing what the boards say your tank can do and your group just isn't winning whining the class sucks and needs more dps which is exactly what this board mainly whines about isn't really productive.

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Originally Posted by AshaCat

Who said I wasn't calm

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Then, please, avoid some senteces.

Yeah i feel your point of view and here i think a really small part of the community aim to kill the whole Alexander Savage in the elysium time. But even the trash gate of A1S require to push some numbers from Tank and Healer. without being mad as some do, of course, but the Dps requirement is a fact.

Moreover this is a Tank sub of the forum. Here you will ever find little variety of discussion:

-Tank Dps
-Tank mitigation
-Str Vs Vit
-Please Buff *insert the tank name here*
-I hate the parry stat post

Rinse ad repeat.

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Originally Posted by Mattiux

Then, please, avoid some senteces.

Yeah i feel your point of view and here i think a really small part of the community aim to kill the whole Alexander Savage in the elysium time. But even the trash gate of A1S require to push some numbers from Tank and Healer. without being mad as some do, of course, but the Dps requirement is a fact.

Moreover this is a Tank sub of the forum. Here you will ever find little variety of discussion:

-Tank Dps
-Tank mitigation
-Str Vs Vit
-Please Buff *insert the tank name here*
-I hate the parry stat post

Rinse ad repeat.

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It is but honestly this is the only forum I see where people whine as much as they do about "Buff pl0x, Nerf pl0x."

Repeating myself, I'm not saying Tank or Healer dps isn't required I do aim to max dps on tank while letting healers dps.... But the majority of this tanking community don't seem to consider the bigger picture and just cry "My pld should be doing the same dps war and drk do while in shield oath! Buff pl0x na0!"

Is your raid group dieing to enrage? Yes = DPS matters, including tank DPS.

Do you like finishing your random dungeon run fast? Yes = DPS matters, including tank DPS. Sometimes I carry a DF group through expert, Warrior doing as much damage as both DPS combined in a bad case.

My group died to a2s enrage last night with last single mob at 29%. Just a little more DPS and we're there. Also, we recovered from my death at one point, so today going back with more VIT. Point being, DPS matters a lot. Usually doesn't matter who it's from, so everyone should max DPS. Depending on the situation there may be other ways to win also, but cannot overlook any aspects.

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Originally Posted by AshaCat

It is but honestly this is the only forum I see where people whine as much as they do about "Buff pl0x, Nerf pl0x."

Repeating myself, I'm not saying Tank or Healer dps isn't required I do aim to max dps on tank while letting healers dps.... But the majority of this tanking community don't seem to consider the bigger picture and just cry "My pld should be doing the same dps war and drk do while in shield oath! Buff pl0x na0!"

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True indeed. If i remember the parser chart posted in this sub was War ~100 Drk ~950 PLD ~920. Or something like that.

imho the Dps output for every Tank class never was an issue. We can discuss ages about the utility stuff and situational skill.

obv every class have something that can be made a little "better". But without any kind of hysteria, is proven by the progress that every class can handle everything even if the skill set need some fix here and there.

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Originally Posted by AshaCat

It is but honestly this is the only forum I see where people whine as much as they do about "Buff pl0x, Nerf pl0x."

Repeating myself, I'm not saying Tank or Healer dps isn't required I do aim to max dps on tank while letting healers dps.... But the majority of this tanking community don't seem to consider the bigger picture and just cry "My pld should be doing the same dps war and drk do while in shield oath! Buff pl0x na0!"

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I'm guessing you haven't been to the Healer threads in awhile.

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Originally Posted by AshaCat

It is but honestly this is the only forum I see where people whine as much as they do about "Buff pl0x, Nerf pl0x."

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LMAO have you literally never been to the DPS and Healer subforums or something

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Originally Posted by Illya

LMAO have you literally never been to the DPS and Healer subforums or something

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Or any MMO forum ever. It's basically the same everywhere.

I'd like to do Savage one day myself, but real life takes precedence. I don't have 18 hours a day to put into a game just to clear something nor would I want to.

But as for tank DPS, the problem comes when group dps is expected to reach a certain point. I'm sure SE takes tank and healer dps into the equation when they tune these raids, which means tanks and healers can't just do their own job if they expect to clear something. Is it the good design? I don't know. It seems to put undue pressure on non-dps classes to crank out dps and the result we get is what we're seeing now. Certain classes like PLD might be the best tanks in the game-- but if it's their dps that's needed to clear content, perhaps even more so than their tanking skills, then they're at a disadvantage.

It's why I've never been a huge fan of enrage timers, even if they are a necessary evil. It forces every fight into a dps race, which means even non-dps classes need to dps and if a class is tanking just fine while putting out the best dps, chances are they're going to be the class chosen. Just like when I played The Secret Wold and everyone wanted leech healers, as they're the only healing spec that can deal damage as well.

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Originally Posted by AshaCat

you could have 2 wars both doing 1k each if the rest f your raid sucks your still going to fail

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I ignored the irrelevant part in your puny answer to my comment.


So, you're saying that if your raid is trash, you should be trash too and not do as best as you can ? (obvious exaggeration here, please do not quote it to insult me again)

It's not a matter of "tank dps being an issue", it's a matter of "tanks should maximize their own dps for their raid's sake". Then there is the issue you raise (aka : dps can be bad). Of course this can happen, but then you can either make them progress (show them guides, help them work their rotations, etc..) or replace them if they are no good at all (last option if everything else fails).

Also, I've yet to see people really asking for a buff/nerf (apart bards/MCH). WAR is for damage, PLD for defense, and DRK as a good compromise between both.. Nothing more to say about it

i thought this thread was about bad dps, and how tanks shouldn't be foced to make up for what those are lacking

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

i thought this thread was about bad dps, and how tanks shouldn't be foced to make up for what those are lacking

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Tank's DPS should be at least equal or higher than dps classes or it's a suboptimal tank who doesn't know his/her rotations.

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

Tank's DPS should be at least equal or higher than dps classes or it's a suboptimal tank who doesn't know his/her rotations.

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I can't tell if you genuinely believe that or if you are trolling, but given how misinformed most of the community is, I wouldn't be surprised if it were the former.

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Originally Posted by LordHousewife

I can't tell if you genuinely believe that or if you are trolling, but given how misinformed most of the community is, I wouldn't be surprised if it were the former.

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Ya that confused me too. tank is not a dps class its a meat shield, if you are doing more DPS than the jobs designed for dps either you have super good gear compared to DPS or the DPS don't have the gear or they just suck.

I am a warrior and i am top dps in my static raid.... what could be worst :rolleyes: "I will never clear this shit"