How flexible is the basic Monk rotation?

I apologize if this has been covered elsewhere, please direct me to the appropriate thread if it has.

That said, I'm always trying to determine the best basic rotation that works for me, and to that end I've enjoyed some success with keeping it simple: DK->TS->SP->BS->TrS->Demo just constantly alternating between the full flank and the full read, tossing in ToD when needed and constantly throwing Howling Fist and whatnot whenever they're available, popping Internal Release and Blood for Blood where appropriate.

Is this simple approach sufficiently strong or can I get significantly more oomph from switching it up? Right now on the targeting dummy I'm seeing DPS of around 1,000-1,100 or so, sometimes higher sometimes lower.

Are you doing Demolish every time you do Boot+True (your post makes it sound that way)? If so you should only refresh Demolish when it's 4/< seconds left when you're in Coeurl form. Apologies if you know that, hope it doesn't come across patronising, but again post kinda makes it sound like you're going flank flank flank rear rear rear flankx3 rearx3 etc. :)

And, well, that's the gist of it. As long as you don't have to disengage from an enemy, you simply alternate between dk/boot for Opo form and twin/true for raptor form, snap for coeurl unless demo needs refreshing - and Touch at 3/< seconds. OGCDs whenever available.

To answer the main question, it's not that flexible in the sense that what you do in each form is very much set in stone to get the best results. Something that can lead to a minor boost though is tacking on Fracture if it gets to a point where you're in Coeurl form and Demolish is at an awkward 4-5 seconds. Because you'd otherwise clip or let it drop by using snap (slight loss), can draw it out by using Fracture before Demolish refresh. Though if Touch is at refresh time at that point you should do that instead before Demo.

DPS sounds kinda normal for 170ish gear, maybe less. Not sure what you have.

Nah it didn't come off that way. Actually, yes I am, that was my concern. Like I said, I went for a simplistic rotation so it'd be easy to be consistent with. The impression I'm getting is you replace Snap Punch with Demolish whenever Demolish needs a refresh, otherwise you alternate between DK->TS or BS->TrS. It's a holdover from when I was getting used to MNK so it might take me a few tries to reset my muscle memory, haha.

Update: Tried out the advice, still periodically get shaky but getting the new rhythm down. It's a little embarassing being at 60 already but you never stop learning, right? Closer to 1,100 DPS last parse, am ilevel 185 currently.

are you using perfect balance to open?

demo-PB-snap-snap-dk-twin-snap-boot+infernal-true+bfb-snap+ogcd-touch+ogcd-dk+ogcd-twin+ogcd-demo (ogcd=elexir,forbiden,steelpeak,shoulder and the other line aoe i dont remember the name)

so you open with demo that put you at gl1 then perfect balance with 2x snap for gl3 then apply buff and debuff then back attack with your 2 buff in between and then you use all your skill with ogcd and touch of death to get your dot+ogcd at max power buffed with infernal release and blood for blood and after back to normal rotation.

This pretty much covers the basics:
http://i.imgur.com/6XMaU17.png

It doesn't go into nuances, but the main rotational stuff is there :P

Hmm okay so it looks like I was doing pretty well except for the redundant Demolish stacking. So it's only partially embarrassing. :P

Still, thank you guys a lot. Nice to finally have some reasonably objective advice on the basic theory.

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Originally Posted by MonkDace

Update: Tried out the advice, still periodically get shaky but getting the new rhythm down. It's a little embarassing being at 60 already but you never stop learning, right? Closer to 1,100 DPS last parse, am ilevel 185 currently.

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I accidentally built muscle memory with an "old" version of the optimal DRG rotation when it came to oGCDs. It took nothing short of changing my hotbars so the buttons were in the right place for the "new" rotation for me to get it working right for me. Don't feel embarrassed, as I started "fixing" my rotation about 3 days ago, at i189 at the time.

You are never too high level to learn.

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Originally Posted by spelley

You are never too high level to learn.

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Thanks, man. I appreciate the supportive attitude I'm getting in this thread. I'll try the hotbar switching, actually.

Another really great way to setup your hotbars is to base them on what I'm calling Separation of Concerns:

- Main Bar is for GCDs I use in my main rotation, 1-6 and QERTFG (easy to reach)
- My Mouse buttons (M1-M6) are for commonly used DAMAGE oGCDs (easy to reach)
- CTRL+Mouse buttons is for CONTROLLING pets (SCH, SMN, MCH Turrets) or CONTROLLING damage (Tank Defensive CDs). For DPS, this is where my longer-cooldown offensive oGCDs live.
- ALT is for Alternative Strategies/Options. Silences/Stuns/Heavies/Sleeps live here, Elusive Jump/Second Wind/Bloodbath on DRG, etc. Used less often

Because I play multiple classes, I also make things consistent. 4 is my "buff" GCD (Heavy Thrust, Hot Shot, Straight Shot), 5 is my primary DOT (Phlebotomize, Lead Shot, Venomous Bite), M1 is my stun, etc. Obviously, I have a gaming mouse which helps IMMENSELY, but regardless you can see the basic idea. Keeping things blocked off in logical groupings really helps.

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Originally Posted by spelley

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Right now my main hotbar is 1: Touch of Death, 2: Dragon Kick, 3: Bootshine, 4: Twin Snakes, 5: True strike, 6: Snap Punch, 7: Demolish. My muscle memory before was tied to "If we are at the rear, odd numbers, if we are at the flank, even numbers" so as you can see, fixing the redundant Demolish problem is tripping me up a little bit unless I can adapt it, otherwise I may have to take your advice and rethink the arrangement.

personaly i put shift and ctrl on my mouse and i separate my skill by form and utility.

on first bar i put dk-twin-snap-tod-shoulder tackle-mercy (so its the basic opener with buff debuff)
second bar(shift) : bootshine-true strike-demo-fracture-steel (back attack)
third bar(ctrl): destroyer-one ilm-rock breacker-elexir-howling- (aoe)

all my buff like mantra,blood bath-second wind-infernal-bfb-evingorate-meditation-perfect balance etc are on q-e-r-t-f (+shift and ctrl of those on my 2 other bar).i also do the same with midle mouse (using change form,
purification and tornado kick on them)

its clean,everything is near and its easy to follow rotation.i do those keybind on every game now.i have lot of button on my mouse(corsair vengeance m95). i could set more on it but i didnt feel the need for ff14.

Is it jut me or MNk burst in this patch is insane, I so many times grasp aggro off tank by blowing off all my OCD attack skills ( not even pop BfB or IR) in less than 10 sec, if they are not careful, even with my less sub-par gear and Lv 58 vs a Tank lv 60? Sorry if this is hi-jack the thread :)

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Originally Posted by LionKing

Is it jut me or MNk burst in this patch is insane, I so many times grasp aggro off tank by blowing off all my OCD attack skills ( not even pop BfB or IR) in less than 10 sec, if they are not careful, even with my less sub-par gear and Lv 58 vs a Tank lv 60? Sorry if this is hi-jack the thread :)

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Happens on my DRG as well sometimes. A good run of crits can nab aggro, and of I do the full opener I can almost time the aggro theft exactly to the 4.5k+ critical Jump following a critical Fang and Claw/Wheeling Thrust. At least as DRG I can Elusive Jump + Spines hatter Dive to shed some aggro.

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Originally Posted by spelley

You are never too high level to learn.

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Unless your too high to learn...

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

This pretty much covers the basics:
http://i.imgur.com/6XMaU17.png

It doesn't go into nuances, but the main rotational stuff is there :P

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This literally answered every question I had about monks, especially the diagram with flanks vs rear vs front on a target ring. Thank you!

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Originally Posted by LionKing

Is it jut me or MNk burst in this patch is insane, I so many times grasp aggro off tank by blowing off all my OCD attack skills ( not even pop BfB or IR) in less than 10 sec, if they are not careful, even with my less sub-par gear and Lv 58 vs a Tank lv 60? Sorry if this is hi-jack the thread :)

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As a Warrior who starts off pulls with Unchained as well as Berserk, yes, I still get Monks ripping mobs off me like Blu-Ray players on Black Friday. That stuff is out of control.

Got a clock of 1165 or so last parse on a dummy. I'm not sure if that's expected for ilevel 185 Monk but it is a good jump from before, so the advice is helping. Now I just need to perfect the opener, I think.

wow so high dps, i sit at 920, but i more or less just wing it as i go along, as you hardly ever get it perfect in a real fight with 1000 aoes to move around, if dot/buffs are up im happy.

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Originally Posted by Tanabe

wow so high dps, i sit at 920, but i more or less just wing it as i go along, as you hardly ever get it perfect in a real fight with 1000 aoes to move around, if dot/buffs are up im happy.

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I'm flattered from the compliment but I'm still trying to be respectable competition for some of the other Monks on this forum. I don't do Savage Alexander so maybe that's why but some folks on here pull 1,400 DPS or higher on the same fight.

Still, on MNK I think you should at least nail the basic rotation and you'll get respectable damage at least in non-Savage content.

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Originally Posted by MonkDace

I'm flattered from the compliment but I'm still trying to be respectable competition for some of the other Monks on this forum. I don't do Savage Alexander so maybe that's why but some folks on here pull 1,400 DPS or higher on the same fight.

Still, on MNK I think you should at least nail the basic rotation and you'll get respectable damage at least in non-Savage content.

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Outside of AoEs, I don't believe a MNK (or DRG, or NIN) can hit 1400dps+. What fight are the numbers coming out of?

In fairness those people have a really generous static that boosts their damage so nevermind, maybe I'm more competitive than I was giving myself credit for.

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Originally Posted by MonkDace

Got a clock of 1165 or so last parse on a dummy. I'm not sure if that's expected for ilevel 185 Monk but it is a good jump from before, so the advice is helping. Now I just need to perfect the opener, I think.

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Just wondering, was that solo? And as a general question, is it actually worth using fracture so you don't clip demolish? When I was using it in my rotation, I couldn't last as long on TP (about 20 or so seconds shorter), and when I wasn't using it in rotation, I was able to last longer, and my total damage was higher.

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Originally Posted by MonkDace

Got a clock of 1165 or so last parse on a dummy. I'm not sure if that's expected for ilevel 185 Monk but it is a good jump from before, so the advice is helping. Now I just need to perfect the opener, I think.

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Is this with 180 weapon? hive? Eso ?

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Originally Posted by Nayrr

Just wondering, was that solo? And as a general question, is it actually worth using fracture so you don't clip demolish? When I was using it in my rotation, I couldn't last as long on TP (about 20 or so seconds shorter), and when I wasn't using it in rotation, I was able to last longer, and my total damage was higher.

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Solo with no food. I would say only use Fracture if you get a golden opportunity but don't sweat it if you don't because Fracture, as you rightly note, consumes TP like crazy and even if you get one of those lucky moments to throw it out without consequence, it only gives you a slight boost.

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Is this with 180 weapon? hive? Eso ?

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Eso weapon.