Now that we know that there wasn't always twin moons, could the origin of twin moons actually have been in reference to her twin moons? She is known as the Lover so her bosoms could be important since it is the chassis of THE lover's heart.
Her boyfriend is Oschon the wanderer. He has a walking stick and also has a bow. Possibly paralleling Eros shooting arrows into potential lovers' hearts, but in this case, his wife. Since he wanders around, maybe Memphina nurses the ocean so that the the seas would bear her image wherever he goes along with the Milky Way.
I'm aware dalamud was part of astrologian calculations, and I guess that makes sense.... In the sense that it has it's own gravity field and had altered the cosmic connections... Or something.
This inconsistency created by the 1.0 story twist could also prove that there never was real 12 Gods in the game as well. But I like think the common folks muddled Memphina's mythology when they saw a second moon arise.
Memphina's Twin Moons
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08-06-2015, 02:58 AMJepMZMemphina's Twin Moons
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08-06-2015, 03:05 AMKaiser-AceSo you're saying That the twin moons are Memphina's Twin Globes not Dalamuld and the Prima Lunar (what ever the moon's proper name is)? I think that's about as out there as Dalamuld was but who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by JepMZ
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08-06-2015, 03:47 AMJepMZ
Yes exactly. It probably started out as one moon in the first three astrals. The bosoms aren't the main aspect of her, of course, just as Thal's balls isn't Thal's main aspect. I'm aware that Nophica is the second or third god mentioned(in fanfest 2014 lore panel) to have a swear word based on her assets which has absolutely nothing to do with trees. So it doesn't seem too far fetched, haha
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08-06-2015, 04:05 AMEnkidoh
I don't buy this idea I'm sorry - in 1.0 Dalamud was nicknamed 'Menphina's loyal hound', the term presumably originating with the successor civilizations in Eorzea following the fall of the Allag Empire - to them, Dalamud was a pet of the larger moon which naturally is actually Menphina Herself (not realizing Dalamud's true artificial origins). The 'twin moons' together thus was not a reflection of the goddess Menphina's um.. assets. ;)
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08-06-2015, 05:44 AMmyahele
It can certainly be possible that something else resides within the Other Moon
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...he_Creator.jpg
Joking aside, (and don't take my word for it) I remember there being leves in Mor dhona that tasks you with collecting ancient artifacts and one of them being the Symbol of Menphina ... without the smaller moon/Dalamud. Suggesting that Menphina has been worship/viewed without Dalamud Pre-Alagan conquest -
08-06-2015, 11:52 AMJepMZ
Ahh, I erred on my part big time. I been reading up on the Twelve on the wikis assuming it reflects actual text in the game. When I went to create a new character, it seems like the wikis are very wrong and have outdated info. The actual descriptor has no mention of the twin moons. Whoops! My bad.
Part of me that got caught up by the false info is that Dalamud is still a part of Memphina's crest as of this current date. Heck, you can even see it on the old 2.0 intro as her form is summoned. Why wasn't her symbol retconned as well? It clearly does not look like a moon ice hound. Only her moonbeams are mentioned by her respective astrologian card. -
08-06-2015, 01:41 PMKaiser-AceThere was no need to retcon her symbol since it was irrelevant. The Symbol would naturally change as worship did. Iconology has done that through out human history and religion IRL too.Quote:
Originally Posted by JepMZ
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08-15-2015, 03:12 AMJepMZBut this is a final fantasy game. Glyphs are highly relevant in the series at least since ffX where the gods or mythical creatures, historical or original, are factually real in each game's reality. We have seen glyphs of aeons, scions, eidelons, some gf's. And each of their glyphs exists independent from the flawed religion of a game's populace. In final fantasy, glyphs are a real force.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace
This game is no exception. At first, I thought it was weird that the 6 primals we fought had no glyphs related to them. (Even fire sprites have lamps based after them). Hydalyn also has a hexagonal glyph when receiving her blessings. And then we find out. And then it makes sense.those primals are fakes
It's amazing to find out about these patterns. We know for certain Hydalyn and the Ascians are not fictional entities. That's why each Ascians have their own crimson glowing glyphs and not the primals. I really like this part of the lore. And I like how the Ascians are immortal and thus their glyphs are immortal, unchanged since they were born.
I guess my point is that the Glyphs of the Twelve can't be manufactured by society in this game because this is a final fantasy game. I can't undo my history with final fantasy games to accept that the glyphs being inaccurate is "irrelevant" due to real people in real life do the same thing. These glyphs are eternal. This is why I have such a big issue about the story when I went to the Crystal Tower and found out about how Dalamud wasn't real. It destroys my suspension of belief of the lore, and it makes it annoyingly distractlingly clear that Dalamud being artificial was thoroughly a retcon.
I feel like I'd be psychotically (haha XD, really tho, I just love the game is all. Sorry about the rant. Heh ) okay with Menphina's outlier glyph if it had always existed like that even before the false moon's creation( so this topic was my attempt to make sense of that). or it's because the Twelve were never real. But that last part is a big unanswered question, and this could be proof of the answer. At the same time, if they aren't real, then all those patterns is ruined in my mind!! T_T
But yeah, I just don't buy that the glyphs naturally change in time like real life thing. Not only does it assault my perception of a final fantasy game, but it also sounded like another flaw i will have to deal with due to remaking the game. Well, I guess there's one positive for not having a computer powerful enough to run 1.0: I won't mind about the arcanist/thaumatarge/conjurer class changes. The current lore they have behind it sounds very grounded. -
08-15-2015, 03:42 AMtreuhavikHydaelyn's glyph, the Ascians' glyphs, the Legacy mark...those symbols are real and unchanging, yes. The Twelve's symbols, however, were created by men and can therefore be changed as mankind's beliefs in/of the deities themselves do.Quote:
Originally Posted by JepMZ
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08-15-2015, 03:47 AMKaiser-AceHey I'll take this idea and run with it (My personal dislike of iconology aside).Quote:
Originally Posted by JepMZ
Alright here we go:
Hydaelyn seems to be one of at most two true deities in Eorzea with Zodiark possibly being the second. The Twelve I personally believe were the original warriors of Light who ascended to Godhood in the wake of the 1st Umbral Era. (A theory for another day). So t he Iconology of the 12 being Deities is the made by the people that worship them. If Louisoix's vision at Carteneau is any thing to go by the twelve are crystals themselves, possibly even the crystals floating around Hydaelyn herself. The Ascian's Glyphs i don't recall being unique to each but I may be wrong as we've really only fought three different ones and I was too busy dodging AoEs to take a good look at them.
Now as for the connections to previous final fantasy titles. I'd like to point out the GFs were not gods and were(Seemingly) manufactured some how. The Aeons were singular living people who had trapped them selves within living memory so they are not gods. The Church of Yevon was manufactured and the symbol of "Yevon" was the seal of Yu Yevon himself thus intentionally not used correctly. The Acsian Glyphs seem to be related to FF12 and Ivalice thus leading to the Theory that Zodiark is the Crystal of the now dead or nearly dead Ivalice and Hydaelyn is some how responsible (Again, for another time).
The "Sigil of Light" it's self is not a symbol of Hydaelyn herself but actually a spell seal that grants us the blessing of light as it never formed until completed and broke when sealed only to return in a different form when unsealed. So it's more a symbol of the WoL than anything.
And Finally the Eidolons.... I'm going to assume you're speaking of the FF13 ones as I never played enough of 9 to actually see a summon. But the FF13 Eidolons were summoned from the symbol/crystal of their L'cie summoner not the Eidolon themselves. What they were in FF9 I'm afraid I have to plead Ignorance too.
And as for Dalamuld being a retcon, well that was never disputed, the whole idea of it literally went along the lines of "<Yoshida and Koji Log in to FF14> Yoshida: Hmmm, I need to reboot the game, but how do I justify the maps being completely remade? Koji: Hey Boss, what about that second moon? Yoshida: THAT'S IT! We'll crash the moon into the planet! That'd definitely change things when it landed. Koji:So what you're saying is that that's no moon? Yoshida: Not anymore. <Devs log out to implement patch 1.23a> -
08-15-2015, 05:08 AMCiliaWhy not? If we're to believe Eorzea / Hydaelyn is a living, breathing world, that kind of thing is to be expected. Dalamud is a retcon, but it's believable enough because five millennia have passed since it was launched. Given we've been led to believe the symbols of the Twelve have been around since before the First Umbral Era, there's bound to be some differences compared to the original design.Quote:
Originally Posted by JepMZ
Whether the Twelve actually exist is up for debate. According to Gaius they're basically unsummoned Primals, an assessment that's difficult to contest. The Age of the Gods was so long ago no real history exists from back then, so anything's possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace
Each Ascian's glyph is indeed unique, corresponding to the lower part of the Esper whose Scion of Light they're named after. Lahabrea, for instance, has the lower part of Mateus' glyph, just inverted, and is named after Mateus' Scion of Light counterpart, Lahabrea, Abyssal Celebrant. This holds true across the Ascians, with Lahabrea = Mateus, Nabriales = Cu Chulainn, and Igeyorhm = Shemhazai. This is taken from Ivalice mythology.
EDIT: When Lahabrea and Igeyorhm fuse into the Ascian Prime, the glyph is half-and-half, showing the merger or synchronization of their souls.
IX eidolons don't have glyphs, just FYI.
Now, my personal guess to the mythology? Either Hydaelyn and Zodiark were originally one being, and Hydaelyn split from him at some point for some reason, or Zodiark was originally the "fathercrystal" and Hydaelyn somehow usurped the position and killed him. Now, Umbral Eras are periods of "rest and recovery," so during those times Zodiark is gaining strength and preparing to take on Hydaelyn to either assimilate her or take his seat back. What would happen should he succeed, well, who knows.
Either way, Hydaelyn is probably leeching Zodiark's power so he doesn't wake up. Lahabrea alludes to this.
To nobody in particular: I know a lot of people want this to be another FF world but it isn't. Even if there's a load of nostalgia in XIV it's an original world. It's not III even though there's the Crystal Tower, it's not IV even though the UFO is assumed to be a Lunar Whale, it's not VI even though there's the Warring Triad, etc. There's no connection between Final Fantasy worlds except a very loose connection between VII and X.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lahabrea