Testing out some heals on Eos, I noticed that she seems to be healing me with Embrace at around 50% the strength of a Physick. However her Embrace spell has a listed potency value of 300, and Physick has a potency value of 400. So I would expect it to heal for 75% of a Physick. The Mend and Maim traits state that they apply to pet abilities.
On the other hand, Eos' Whispering Dawn spell tick for about a third of her Embrace. Given Whispering Dawn has 100 potency and Embrace has 300 potency, those match up to each other, but still doesn't match mine.
Do pets have an entirely different healing formula? Doing some quick healing samples, I would expect the tooltips to instead list Embrace as ~200 potency and Whispering Dawn at ~65 potency, rather than the 300 and 100 they're at right now.
Also queued underleveled Sastasha on a lark. Eos was using Embrace for ~250 potency relative to mine.
SCH Pet Healing Potencies?
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08-04-2015, 07:55 PMVivizaSCH Pet Healing Potencies?
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08-04-2015, 08:30 PMAkyio
It's true, some call it a sneaky nerf, some call it just a "bug", but embrace is now more like 200 potency than 300. in lv50 content it still is around 300, but in lv60 content embrace is about 200. It doesn't scale well and possibly it might be fixed sometime later in patch ?
Normally u can cast adlo on yourself(heals for 300) and see how much you heal, and then embrace yourself, to see if it matches. Embrace goes all the way down from lvl 50 to 60 gradually.
pre 3.0 i think fairy would account of 30-35% of total healing done by SCH at 50 content, at 60 content it looks like about 20%~. -
08-04-2015, 09:49 PMSovereignAegis
Fairy without rouse heals for the same as my regen WITH divine seal.
Fairy with rouse heals more than my whm regency even with divine seal.
Actually this came as a surprise to me because I always thought the fairy healed more than WHM regeny. And I guess in a sense it does. But in raids it is obvious when a WHM should use regen on BOTH tanks at once (or A1 preys) in which case they essentially basically put a private EOS on anyone they put regenon.
Only real benefits to fairy opposed to HOT is that it is manaless and doesn't require a scholar dpsing to swap out of stances to reapply. But that's about it. -
08-04-2015, 11:05 PMGhishlain
Even though Embrace is listed at 300 Potency, the fairy has a different amount of MND, DET, and MD compared to their Scholar. The base stat lines on the fairy are generally lower than the Scholar so Embrace will always be weaker than Adlo despite both being 300 Potency. You'll also notice a dramatic dip in Fairy power from 51-60 compared to 1-50 when you're using the Fairy as this was an intentional design by S-E dev team upon Heavensward launch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayohne
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08-05-2015, 03:51 AMSidra
Well yes - but this is a new thing. In 2.X it the fairy basically acted as if it casted from the caster. And I thought the statement you linked was BS when I first read it. It's not like it's weaker at 50 and than catches up when you are 60 and geared. It's forever weaker comparitively.
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08-05-2015, 04:43 AMCynfaelWhile this may prove to be true, I think we have to consider that we aren't really "geared" yet, at least not compared to whatever ilvl target the dev team has in mind for the lifetime of the 3.x series.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidra
We'll get a better idea as gear progression marches on. If the fairy's 300 potency Embrace heal continues to hover around 50% of the SCH's 400 potency Physick heal, then I guess that's what we're in for. -
08-05-2015, 05:37 AMSidra
Well not really sure how that's possible. Its not like any new gear at this point is going to stop helping physick while helping the Fairy to allow it to catch up. Just wish they'd call a spade a spade sometimes, it's not like SCH is in a bad place...just come out and say ya nerfed it.
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08-05-2015, 06:05 AMKumori_Kumo
What I'm curious about is if the same thing happened to Summoner. Do their pets also matter less, or is Scholar the only one who had this happen?
Also I mean. Nerfs never feel good, so I don't exactly like it, but god knows everyone else will come out of the wood work to say that we shouldn't even have the fairy or whatever so meh. If I don't like it I just won't play it. -
08-05-2015, 06:09 AMSidra
Yes - the same thing also happened to SMN. In 2.X Garuda's Windblade (100 potency) was stronger than a SMN casting 80 potency Ruin. Now, Ruin hits harder.
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08-05-2015, 06:45 AMVivizaEhhh.. but this is silly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghishlain
"Balancing their healing output" is already done with the potency system. If attack X is meant to scale at half the rate of attack Y, then attack X is given half the potency value of attack Y. There's no need for additional math to manipulate the scaling involved, unless there's a need to hide the notion that they were nerfed behind a now-meaningless number. -
08-05-2015, 06:51 AMSidra
That is so true - the mechanics of the game and math behind it should be fixed, with potencies plug and play at any moment for balancing issues. Players put a lot of work into trying to understand how stats in game impact their characters so they can make the best decisions with the means available to them in game, and just changing things all willy nilly is infuriating.
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08-05-2015, 07:03 AMKumori_Kumo
What I'm really hoping is not the case, is the thought that they're trying to make Scholar more dependent on the player than the pet (to the all-but exclusion of said pet), because the mechanics behind pet commands are clunky and take forever to take effect due to the servers being... not great.
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08-05-2015, 08:15 AMGhishlainIndeed. It is an extremely convoluted way of doing that. I'm not sure why they chose to do that in that manner, but they did. I feel like it's in part because the MND and MD scaling for the fairy is different than for the SCH but this still doesn't answer WHY S-E did it like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viviza
*Shrugs* We'll never know, I think. -
08-05-2015, 08:23 AMckc22
Silent nerf that they're too much of a coward to come out and just say it - same thing goes for summoner pets.
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08-05-2015, 08:49 AMGhishlainConsidering Fairy Embrace still out paces Regen by 40%, the silent nerf doesn't bug me at all. There's something wrong with balance if an AI entity that can use a healing spell for free, doesn't consume the SCHs GCD, and can out heal a core piece of the WHM kit by 40% that costs 618MP per application.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22
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08-05-2015, 09:27 AMckc22There's something wrong with SE not just stating that they've done it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghishlain
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08-05-2015, 08:58 PMCulfinrandirHowever, WHM is WHM and SCH is SCH; they were designed to be different & have different strengths and weaknesses. Up until June 19th Embrace had 300 potency, after the servers opened it was instantly clear that something changed. We've had no reasonable explanation as to why, nor have we been told how their vague reasoning relating to future increases can possibly work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghishlain
If you want to play "it's not fair, I can't do that" then I think Benediction should be nerfed because SCH doesn't have a heal anywhere NEAR as powerful. How about removing Shroud of Saints too as SCH has no way to reduce enmity? Hell, the only reason you should keep Cleric Stance is because it can be cross classed. See how silly it sounds to bleat on that one job has abilities that another doesn't? -
08-05-2015, 10:35 PMGhishlainWhile I will concede that it was indeed silly of S-E to not announce they were changing nerfing the fairy you are mistaken to misconstrued my comment as me whining about how potent Embrace was in pre-3.0. Balance is always important in a game with multiple jobs for the same role and the trouble with balance is making things feel similar without one feeling drastically overpowered compared to like abilities. Of course the definition of "like abilities" is different from person to person which can lead to differing opinions. Likewise, the definition of "too powerful" is also up to the interpretation of each individual player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Culfinrandir
I personally consider both Embrace and Regen as normalizing HP values to handle the opposing auto attacks. While the Embrace change is indeed a nerf and yes, it does suck that it wasn't announced, I can understand why it occurred and stated as such in my original comment as a way to communicate S-E's possible thought process (though without an official response, my comment is indeed just conjuncture / opinion).
If I wanted to comment, or whine as you so humbly implied, about every aspect of the WHM vs SCH toolkit, I could. But there's not much to say about the rest of the tools as they have similar purposes done in different ways. Consider your blurb (which, yes, I know you mentioned is very silly).
Benediction is a 5 minute CD that restores 100% of the HP. Lustrate pre-3.0 was a 25% heal per Aetherflow charge that was on one minute cooldown. That means SCHs can potentially restore 450% HP in the same five minutes WHM can restore 100%. In fact, Lustrate still functions similarly in the current iteration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Culfinrandir
SCH has a permanent AI ally that basically heals for 33% of the SCHs Physick. In essence that gives them a permanent 30-40% enmity reduction because that amount of healing is coming from an entity that has a separate enmity table.Quote:
Originally Posted by Culfinrandir
Which means there's one more ability in the ACN / AST toolkit that since they can just CC it versus a WHM who's always there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Culfinrandir
Yes, I see how silly it is =p And yes, I see how silly it is to take my one comment completely out of context and say I'm "whining". =pQuote:
Originally Posted by Culfinrandir