Please Fix Astrologians!

Please Fix Astrologians we are being refused from most parties, we are definitely in a worst place than Machinist or Dark Knights.

I just want to play Astrologian tired of being rejected because of my job ._.

find a static group of friends? My group just got faust down to a ez clear with me on astro and we are working on A1 mechanics and im keeping up with my whm partner.

at least you're not a bard.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

Please Fix Astrologians we are being refused from most parties, we are definitely in a worst place than Machinist or Dark Knights.

I just want to play Astrologian tired of being rejected because of my job ._.

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The only bad thing about i've heard about AST is that it sucks in savage. I think it's fine personally although it does have some slight mana issues and i feel the cure potency is meh.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

at least you're not a bard.

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if you are being excluded as a bard the problem may lay with you, and not the changes.

Do you mean "most parties" or "most Savage parties"? I haven't noticed AST being really shunned in anything else. I haven't run Savage with an AST because my static doesn't have one. Their cure potency is a little lower than the other two and they can more easily run into mana issues, but honestly I don't have a problem with AST overall.

Do I think they could use a little tweaking? Definitely. Do I think they're at auto-kick status? Nah.

By saying AST has issues in savage you admit the job has issues period.

The job doesn't magically change and get worse when you step in that zone, it just highlights the problems more obviously in a very visible way.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

at least you're not a bard.

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What are you talking about on balmung today there were 4 pf statics looking for bards if anything they seem to be most in demand from what I have seen.

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Originally Posted by Xikaz

By saying AST has issues in savage you admit the job has issues period.

The job doesn't magically change and get worse when you step in that zone, it just highlights the problems more obviously in a very visible way.

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But are the issues because of the job, or because it doesn't fit the play style that hardcore groups have adapted to quickly steamrolling all new raid content added?

I have never been one to turn away people from parties... but even I sigh and roll my eyes when I see an Astro as my healer. I dont turn them, but am surprised when we dont wipe.

Give the Astros some love...

Love, a tank.

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

But are the issues because of the job, or because it doesn't fit the play style that hardcore groups have adapted to quickly steamrolling all new raid content added?

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Ya I'm curious on how many people complaining about the New Jobs, Machinist, Dark Knight, and Astrologist, have taken into consideration Human Error. I know some tweats were already made but still some of these "issues" seem to neglect Human Error either from adjusting to the Job's new gameplay style or lack of other things.

Sure AST can clear Faust, but that's nothing. It's specifically an A1S problem if you ask me. I've been told A2S at least is more feasible with an AST however the aoe healing demand for A1S Oppressor is very difficult to meet with an AST/SCH combo. My static had to ask me to level WHM and switch to that for raid.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

at least you're not a bard.

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o_O my static couldn't find a replacement BRD/MCH so we changed jobs around. Constantly seeing PF's for statics looking for a BRD/MCH as well.

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Originally Posted by Ehr

Sure AST can clear Faust, but that's nothing. It's specifically an A1S problem if you ask me. I've been told A2S at least is more feasible with an AST however the aoe healing demand for A1S Oppressor is very difficult to meet with an AST/SCH combo. My static had to ask me to level WHM and switch to that for raid.



o_O my static couldn't find a replacement BRD/MCH so we changed jobs around. Constantly seeing PF's for statics looking for a BRD/MCH as well.

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That doesn't sound like an ast problem so much as a job synergy problem. D: I can't really say much though since I haven't started on savage yet.

It's also generally best to just smile and nod when Evangela posts.

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Originally Posted by ErikMynhier

I have never been one to turn away people from parties... but even I sigh and roll my eyes when I see an Astro as my healer. I dont turn them, but am surprised when we dont wipe.

Give the Astros some love...

Love, a tank.

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If your astro is paired with a WHM, rejoice. Diurnal sect+WHM is a wonderful combo, since the heals stack, and all the HoTs going off will give your Astro room for support dps.

If your astro is paired with a scholar, cringe a little, because the astro is going to be doing a majority of the aoe healing, and won't have time for much support.

If your astro is paired with another astro, run and scream, because one of them will have to use nocturnal sect, and nocturnal sect is no replacement for a scholar, and nocturnal sect astros can provide little support dps in most circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

That doesn't sound like an ast problem so much as a job synergy problem. D: I can't really say much though since I haven't started on savage yet.

It's also generally best to just smile and nod when Evangela posts.

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It very well might be a synergy problem I suppose. I might ask the SCH to switch to WHM one of our raid days and let me try it on AST again, see how it works out. One of my problems with the aoe healing of an AST is the range actually, of all things. I can't hit all the dps during adds with aspected helios if one laser spawns in one corner and another in the opposite one (or that BLM forgets I hate it when he stands as far as possible from the group >.<). Medica II is 20y while all other aoe healing spells in the game are 15y, I just don't understand why they're different.

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Originally Posted by Ehr

It very well might be a synergy problem I suppose. I might ask the SCH to switch to WHM one of our raid days and let me try it on AST again, see how it works out. One of my problems with the aoe healing of an AST is the range actually, of all things. I can't hit all the dps during adds with aspected helios if one laser spawns in one corner and another in the opposite one (or that BLM forgets I hate it when he stands as far as possible from the group >.>). Medica II is 20y while all other aoe healing spells in the game are 15y, I just don't understand why they're different.

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Yeah, that is my main problem with astrologian right now too. I cannot stand how small the range on aspected helios is. Sometimes it feels like the 15y on it is smaller range than succor/medica1/indomitability too, but I know that's not the case since I've tried them all out. They should all be 20y minimum with these ginormous rooms. ._.

I haven't found an issue with range on AST. I think this is just like how people treated SCH before SCH players got really good at them; any non-pure (WHM) healer is going to take time and strategy to learn what the best reactions are. I think AST players need to figure out how and when to accommodate for those actions they would use on one of the other healers and find their groove.

Relax, it's all going to be okay.

I can heal anything as an AST thus far (haven't done savage yet) but having a 60 WHM and 60 SCH it is obvious that the AST is far weaker than either of them.

Both WHM and SCH have eye for an eye (10% entire-pull-wide damage reduction) and virus (for whm only physical side but this is 90% of the encounters anyhow). Both are dependable. High cooldown? Sure. But we know we have them when we need them.

Furhtermore WHM has Asylum which is a throw down and forget version of the astrologians collective unconscious which STUNS THEM IN PLACE THE ENTIRE DURATION. Meaning a Whm can chug along healing but an AST is done and has no other options. SCH's dome is equivalent (although costs an aetherflow).

Most of AST's abilities also seem like totally ripping off other classes.
1: Tetra/Lustrate/Essential dignity all are basically the same thing. "In emergency press X",
2: medica, helios.
3: medica 2, aspected helious and succor.

And worse yet the abilities seem like CHEAP knockoffs, like instead of a rolex... you're getting a dollar store watch with rollex stickers on it:
1: Gravity is basically holy without a stun
2: What the hell is celestial opposition even good for? It's just the stun portion of holy really. I'd be more impressed with the time dilation effect if most card effects weren't single target. Even then the cards effects are negligible over the entire party because they have their effects reduced by 50%.
3: Tons of potencies are just plain lower
4: Their aspected benefic has a lower potency AND duration than a whm's regen. And this is heavily noticeable when leveling because if you're used to whm you can pull off a lot more shenanegans with the WHM's regen (especially if you divine seal it!).
5: Lightspeed is basically a crappy version of a WHM's Presence of Mind... why do I say it's worse? Because POM reduces the COOLDOWN TIMES as well. Meaning a WHM will pump out even more healing than before, and can even be used for damage (yes really). An AST's Lightspeed also reduces heals by 25% at the same time. So even on this level it is weaker.

*Oh wait let me add, their medica 2 equivalent has a SIGNIFICANTLY shorter range than WHM medica 2. And you WILL notice it in dungeons and boss fights and raids. It is VERY noticeable.


Prettymuch the only ability that seems UNIQUE AND EFFECTIVE is synastry.

The entire card system is
- Unreliable pure RNG nonsense. Yes you can hold a card in spread but I lost track of how many times I drew spires over and over and over and over again.
- The cards effects are ignorable / feeble unless you double their potency. The balance is probably the best card giving 10% more damage to a single character, can be boosted to 20% which is then noticeable. But this took luck to draw it in the first place, to draw and give up a bole as well and then use it on a DPS who we hope will juice the most out of it.
- Doesn't make up for the lack of heals/other pains the class has.

It is in no capacity up to the same level as WHM or SCH. Can it heal through content? Yes, but with A LOT more effort and no reward. In fact it's more effort and LESS reward, longer times to run (cause you have to focus on healing more than a WHM who can just spam stone through dungeons. And I can clarify this is possible as WHM cause I CAN AND DO DO IT 100% of the time). There is no reason to take an AST unless you're looking for "hard mode", which most people will not put up with. If a DPS or tank queues up for a raid then they just want in and out of the dungeon. They do NOT care about your feelings, your desires, or even your roleplaying. They want to clear the crap and move on as fast and painless as possible- an AST is weaker by a large margin to WHM and SCH and so people have caught on and are shunning AST.

I want AST to get buffs and I love the look, the playstyle, the feel... but at present they offer only extremely tedious healing and an overall inefficient time.

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Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

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I just wanted to comment on a few things:

Lightspeed is amazing. You get 4 insta-cast heals at 25% less mana (not potency). I've saved parties with this while the whm fumbled around with seal and medica II (2 of my heals already landed).

I personally pop celestial opposition on a big pull after buffing people. The stun is always good on a big pull and it gives extra time to the buffs (albiet short) but that includes aspected helios/benefic.

Aspected benefic (diurnal) is 30 seconds I thought, at lower potency?

You're right about collective unconscious. I would give up potency on it (it's really rad) to be able to plop it down like the others. Also about gravity (don't use it).

Cards would be better if we could reject a card even after shuffling it, in the off-chance we risked using royal road first.

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Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

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I agree with some of what you wrote, but a few things:

Eye for an Eye: "Barrier Effect: 20% chance that when barrier is struck, the striker will deal 10% less damage" -- I wouldn't really call that dependable since sometimes the that 20% never kicks in and the cooldown does nothing for the whole 20s duration. Obviously there's a pretty good chance while fighting a big group of mobs that at least one will get the 10% damage debuff.

Collective Unconsciousness does not stun you in place. You can move or cast at any time to cancel the effect. That being said, I agree that WHM's ugly soap bubble is much better and that Collective still needs to be changed and is difficult to use effectively.

Lightspeed only reduces damage dealt by 25%. It doesn't hurt heals anymore, but it does reduce mp cost by 25%. That said, it's probably only really useful for periods of high movement rather than using as an mp conserve cooldown.

Essential Dignity is stronger the lower hp the target has, so it's a bit different than Tetragrammaton or Lustrate. Lower cooldown than Tetragrammaton, but I'm not sure how the potency compares on lower hp (tetra is 700p and essential dignity is base 400p).

Think that's it...? I want ast to have some buffs or skill edits too, but I think people are going a little crazy overboard with stigmatizing the job.

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Originally Posted by M0xie

Cards would be better if we could reject a card even after shuffling it, in the off-chance we risked using royal road first.

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I'm probably misunderstanding you, but you can click off card draws (and royal road) by right clicking it on your buff bar and immediately start the 30s cooldown rather than waiting for it to wear off.

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

Essential Dignity is stronger the lower hp the target has, so it's a bit different than Tetragrammaton or Lustrate. Lower cooldown then Tetragrammaton, but I'm not sure how the potency compares on lower hp (tetra is 700p and essential dignity is base 400p).

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If I recall correctly what someone told me, Essential Dignity is 400 base potency and 10 potency for every 1% of hp missing. My static's WAR at 1 hp (he Holmganged the tank buster) was a 7k or so heal I think. Might be a bit off, was from like 2 weeks ago.

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

I'm probably misunderstanding you, but you can click off card draws (and royal road) by right clicking it on your buff bar and immediately start the 30s cooldown rather than waiting for it to wear off.

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I... I never thought to do this. DUH. Bonus that it resets the timer. Thank you!

I'm currently leveling AST on my alt and I gotta say it's hella hard keeping up noob tanks compared to WHM and SCH. With WHM I got Bene and regen stacking. With SCH I can let the pet do the healing with Lustrates in between. But the one thing that really irks me is the lack of synergy between the other healers/AST. Diurnal and Nocturnal overwrite each other and that really annoys me.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

I'm currently leveling AST on my alt and I gotta say it's hella hard keeping up noob tanks compared to WHM and SCH. With WHM I got Bene and regen stacking. With SCH I can let the pet do the healing with Lustrates in between. But the one thing that really irks me is the lack of synergy between the other healers/AST. Diurnal and Nocturnal overwrite each other and that really annoys me.

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Diurnal doesn't overwrite anything other than another AST's spell so it synergies amazingly with a WHM and decently with a SCH (stacks with fairy regen). Noct overwrites a SCH's Aldo for some insane reason and another AST's. Also Helios and Benefic give 2 different hots that stacks in Diurnal, while Nocts shield is the same regardless.

They need to do something about their party bonus too. :\

It's not really a class that's "capable of filling either role fluidly" if they are fighting with SCH for spots in raids because they offer the same party bonus.

[EDIT] PS. Stoneskin II. The other healers need the ability to access this already.

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Originally Posted by Selli

They need to do something about their party bonus too. :\

It's not really a class that's "capable of filling either role fluidly" if they are fighting with SCH for spots in raids because they offer the same party bonus.

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What...? Is that really a problem? "Sorry, Mr. Astro. We'd let you join our static, but we already have a sch giving us bonus piety and we really need the mind bonus from a white mage!" I guess for a small boost to cleric stance deeps...?

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

What...? Is that really a problem? "Sorry, Mr. Astro. We'd let you join our static, but we already have a sch giving us bonus piety and we really need the mind bonus from a white mage!" I guess for a small boost to cleric stance deeps...?

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Yes it is.

It was a thing when BisEXual and Rav EX were the only end-game content we had. The PFs would be say WHM and SCH/AST. I've seen leaders deny AST's when they already had a SCH in the party. And it's not for Cleric Stance, it's for heals. The party bonus is nearly 30 mind (iirc it's 26?), and that's basically like having another accessory. It has definitely gotten worse with Savage, as most parties I see won't even accept ASTs for A1.

[EDIT] It's a raider thing, really. You probably won't encounter it as frequently for Bis and Rav now (especially not if the PF min ilevel is 190, LOL), and it certainly doesn't apply to level 50 content (it's done as an undersized party most of the time, anyway). But when fights are new and people are still progressing, yeah, this type of thing becomes an issue.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Diurnal doesn't overwrite anything other than another AST's spell so it synergies amazingly with a WHM and decently with a SCH (stacks with fairy regen). Noct overwrites a SCH's Aldo for some insane reason and another AST's. Also Helios and Benefic give 2 different hots that stacks in Diurnal, while Nocts shield is the same regardless.

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can you confirm which of these are stackable and won't overwrite each other?

WHM/AST

-Medica II + Aspeceted Helios (Diurnal)
-Medica II + Aspeceted Helios (Diurnal) + Regen + Aspected Benefic (Diurnal)
-Regen + Aspected Benefic (Diurnal)
-Medica II + Aspeceted Helios (Nocturnal)
-Medica II + Aspeceted Helios (Nocturnal) + Regen + Aspected Benefic (Nocturnal)
-Regen + Aspeceted Benefic (Nocrutnal)

SCH/AST

-Succor + Aspected Helios (Diurnal)
-Succor + Aspected Helios (Diurnal) + Adloquium + Aspected Benefic (Diurnal)
-Adloquium + Aspected Benefic (Diurnal)
-Succor + Aspected Helios (Nocturnal)
-Succor + Aspected Helios (Nocturnal) + Adloquium + Aspected Benefic (Nocturrnal)
-Adloquium + Aspected Benefic (Nocturnal)

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Originally Posted by Selli

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Those PFs just sound like they were because the expansion was still new and people didn't know a lot about astro. I never saw a single PF that specifically outcast an AST just because of the party bonus. I did run into tons of people who had no idea that AST has diurnal sect for regen, though. They just assumed that ast and sch would be competing for galvanize/nocturnal field supremacy. Nocturnal Sect is terrible if there's a scholar in the group.

Also, people have been clearing savage floors with ast+sch, so I don't think the mind party bonus is absolutely vital for healing. It might help a little, but it should not make or break a group. I think AST having lower potency heals and would be the problem before the party bonus.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

can you confirm which of these are stackable and won't overwrite each other?

WHM/AST

-Medica II + Aspeceted Helios (Diurnal)
-Medica II + Aspeceted Helios (Diurnal) + Regen + Aspected Benefic (Diurnal)
-Regen + Aspected Benefic (Diurnal)
-Medica II + Aspeceted Helios (Nocturnal)
-Medica II + Aspeceted Helios (Nocturnal) + Regen + Aspected Benefic (Nocturnal)
-Regen + Aspeceted Benefic (Nocrutnal)

SCH/AST

-Succor + Aspected Helios (Diurnal)
-Succor + Aspected Helios (Diurnal) + Adloquium + Aspected Benefic (Diurnal)
-Adloquium + Aspected Benefic (Diurnal)
-Succor + Aspected Helios (Nocturnal)
-Succor + Aspected Helios (Nocturnal) + Adloquium + Aspected Benefic (Nocturrnal)
-Adloquium + Aspected Benefic (Nocturnal)

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WHM/AST Everything stacks.

SCH/AST Everything but Nocturnal spells stack.

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

Those PFs just sound like they were because the expansion was still new and people didn't know a lot about astro.

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Perhaps.

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I never saw a single PF that specifically outcast an AST just because of the party bonus.

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You must come from a really nice server, LOL. I see this happen all the time.

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I did run into tons of people who had no idea that AST has diurnal sect for regen, though. They just assumed that ast and sch would be competing for galvanize/nocturnal field supremacy.

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I've never really had an issue with people not knowing about the Sects. Except maybe in the DF... I do remember doing Low Level Roulette once on my AST and a newbie DPS asked me what class I was 'cause they wanted to have a cool globe too. It was adorable.

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Also, people have been clearing savage floors with ast+sch, so I don't think the mind party bonus is absolutely vital for healing. It might help a little, but it should not make or break a group. I think AST having lower potency heals and would be the problem before the party bonus.

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Most of the clears have been done with statics, they're pretty on-point when it comes to their role, so missing that buff isn't a big issue to them. However, the average PF group is far from being anywhere near that, and for the sake of progressing, yes, they are 100% going to want their healers healing for slightly more, so WHM becomes mandatory healer.

I didn't say that it was a huge issue that needs to be fixed immediately. I agree their lower potency heals and their brittle version of Adlo need to be addressed first. This thread is about the problems surrounding AST, I figured I'd mention an issue that isn't mentioned often. It does exist and it can effect a players ability to do certain content.

The ultimate fix for ast is to allow them to freely switch between diurnal and nocturnal sects while in combat.

I agree with Selli, I quit Ast because of the very same reasons that they couldn't take me instead of a Scholar, since they were, technically (and they are) better.

Noct overriding Adlo sounds like a glitch to me. Being a SCH main up until now, I was looking foward to the benefits of Noct, as I find myself never touching Diurnal Aspected skills, but canceling adlo, which is such a deeply rooted core skill of any SCH, sounds like a disastrous design choice as Noct has lower sheild potency. If anything, Galvanize should beat out Noct\\'s sheild if they won\\'t let the skills stack (considering regens do, they should, I think!)

That being said, I\\'m level 41, and right now, the only adjustment I'm dealing with is dealing with the cards verses doing a ton of side DPS.

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(ugh, can't edit on mobile)

I feel like the job is meant for us to constantly be drawing and doling out the cards in equal amounts to actually healing, which is impossible unless the heals have decent potency.

My suggestion would change Nocturnal from a weaker version of Adlo to a straight up defense buff on top of the heal, a flat rate percentage boost that stacks with the bole and other defense CDs a party member has up. It\\'ll give Noct it's own methodology and let them coordinate with other AST and SCH better, and give a solo AST more reason to specialize it.

Please fix the unnecessary amount of threads like this one that will never be addressed, let alone seen or cared about by anyone who would actually have any input on the matter.

I just wish they'd rework the nocturnal CU to not just be a bad version of Sacred Soil.