Rework to AST card mechanics (Idea)

Currently to me the card mechanics are ok but they need serious changes to make them work BETTER to me astrologian is an active healer and should be active with pulling out cards at a fast pace to buff the group and this is my grand idea

Shuffle / Spread / Draw / Royal Road all needs to be rework and this is why and how

DRAW
=20 sec recast
= Cards hold last 20 sec longer


SPREAD
= Reduce recast again
= Auto apply Expand Buff
= Expand buff only works with Spread
= Allow Spread to draw a new card

Royal Road
= Auto apply Duration buff
= Duration buff only works with draw
= Allow Royal Road to draw a new card

Shuffle
= Reduce recast

with this we will now have more control over our card and be able to bang out more card buffs more frequently without having problems so in theory it should work like this

(Card name) << New card drawn from revamp skill

Draw > Bole > Royal Road > Royal Road (Spire) > Shuffle > Shuffle (Balance) > Spread > Spread (Ewer)

So now i have Balance in my spread with auto expand and ewer in draw with double duration....... now with this i can wait 15 seconds to use Royal road again to draw a new card or use ewer on a player.... with balance it is held safe until i use it at my own will so through that line i have drawn 4 cards within a short time and can shuffle or Royal road to get new cards

this mechanic is just an example of and idea it would need tweaks for this to work.... but in my eyes AST is a pro active healer and always need to be active in healing and drawing cards.... for this i would for go any healing buffs because with this mechanic u can change the cards to improve AST utility through our cards rather then giving us new skills so for example for card changes

Spire = TP regen + TP reduce
Ewer = MP regen + MP reduce
Balance = Damage increase + minor Haste
Bole = Damage reduction + minor healing increase
Spear = Cooldown reduction + minor damage increase
Arrow = Healing increase + minor haste

So now we can help the party alot with these buffs because now all our card are useful because of these reasons

= 2 support (Spire, Ewer)
= 1 healing (Arrow)
= 1 mitigation (Bole)
= 2 damage (Balance, Spear)

this will help us in both dps and healing through our cards and there mechanics but this will need tweaking for this to work this will also stay true to the AST role to heal and buff the party and have our own identity as a healer and rather being mimics of SCH and WHM this will need alot of thought and planning but this would be the right direction to take

I just think that they did not give interesting enough card abilities to make the job more fun to play. They lowered their potencies because they can buff but it is just awkward.

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Originally Posted by Yhisa

Currently editing due to large post so please be patient

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One thing I tend to do for this is to just ctrl-X what I've posted, write 'editing...', then edit, ctrl-v, done. The post is only up for a few seconds max before the real text is there.

I look forward to seeing what you've written.

Edit: My suggestions for AST are mostly as written on the shortlist in sig.

• Spread and Draw have been revised, the majority Spread's effects integrated into Draw by default. Upon drawing a card, Draw will now begin cooling down immediately, showing its cooldown radial atop the icon for the card drawn. The drawn card can be held infinitely, rather than being discarded after 15 seconds. However, Draw will only cool down for up to 15 seconds before the card already drawn must be used to continue the cooldown. At level 40, AST receives the ability Spread, with no cooldown, into which a drawn card can be saved. It no longer uniquely has the advantage of holding a card while charging another, but does allow the latter half to cooldown and allows AST, essentially, if preparing over 75 seconds to deploy 2 cards instantly and another within 15 seconds without using a single CD.
• A player can only receive one of each AST buff, but may carry any number of different AST buffs simultaneously, even from the same AST.
• Casting Collective Unconscious in Nocturnal Sect also places a 75-potency shield on all affected party members.
• Shuffle can no longer draw the same card.
• Balance now also affects healing done, by 6%. (Anywhere from 5% to 7% would be fine.) (Ideally I'd actually like to switch that to 10% Attack Power and Attack Magic Power and 7% Healing Magic Power, for a bit more added fun in synergy with physical self-heals.)

• Too complicated, but fun: Bole's protection is now dealt through a shield, absorbing 14% of damage done to the target until broken, at which point Bole's effect decreases to 8%. This shield has a maximum health of 50 potency of your healing and regenerates each instance of damage done to it over 5 seconds, while also healing the target with a regen effect of up to 40 potency (will not overheal), to a maximum of 300 potency of your healing. Max shield health increased by 50% in Nocturnal Sect and maximum healing done increased by 50% in Diurnal Sect. [This both gives it a small increase to burst effectiveness and especially its longer term smoothed healing. It can basically only take barely more than an non-crit Adloquiem's worth of damage up front, but as long as it isn't damaged too severely or quickly, it will also heal the a bit over time.] -- Design copied from an idea I had for how to make Graniteskin (traited Stoneskin) unique if Stoneskin was returned to a 2.5s cast universally.

I feel like the Cards are fine as is aside from Balance and Bole. Arrow can improve heals while Balance can not, and Bole just feels a bit too lackluster on anyone but the MT to make it feel like a decent card compared to the rest. That being said, Balance's bonus to healing, here, has been reduced because (1) I wanted to make DPS targets as viable as healer targets, especially given that (2) hps, when spamming, will out-parse dps by a fair margin iirc, and (3) increased speed means increased mana drain, which synergizes with Ewer, while Balance does not. As AST's cards are primarily a support function, I did not want it to be used constantly on oneself. Arrow already has that option, even if less worthwhile than support uses when not using every GCD immediately.

Job Adjustments Shortlist: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

If they buff healing then the chess buffs well get nerfed. Fix a few cooldown is the main thing the astro seems to suffer with.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

If they buff healing then the chess buffs well get nerfed. Fix a few cooldown is the main thing the astro seems to suffer with.

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You come into a thread before it's even posted and reply with "everything is fine, your idea won't work"? Great job!

I actually like to see people's ideas for changing AST or any class, for that matter.

just finished the write up :P

Your take on Spread is very interesting. Originally, when looking at the list of AST skills, I remember there being one to "expand" buffs from cards onto other people, but it wasn't RR. The name also seems odd for a skill that should have been something closer to "Hold", since it doesn't actually "Spread" anything. Unless there's a separate meaning to "Spread" in Tarot cards or poker-like games that I'm not aware of, at least.

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Originally Posted by GideonHighmourn

Your take on Spread is very interesting.

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yeah i just went by the names ... Spread = AoE , Royal Road = Duration (due to long roads) this is my logics lol and i would prefure if shuffle was our skill to draw new cards...or make new skill with called *HOLD* and throw away shuffle and make Spread act as Royal road Expand and have Royal road be Double duration this way we can always pull out new cards

Spread, or the spread, is a term used in cards and the tarot, generally it involves more than one card, but usually it involves seeing said cards. The one that doesn't fit to me in card lingo is royal road. But maybe that has a hidden meaning too!

The actual word Tarot is made up of the two Egyptian words, 'Tar' meaning 'royal' and 'ot' meaning 'road' – the Royal Road

Personally I think the rng to the cards is integral to the theme of the job, something they could do is give us a stacking buff similar to warrior's wrath, where every time we cast a card we get a stack that increases healing potency, shield strength, card duration/potency or something else that I haven't mentioned. It could be connected to the sect you are in.

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Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont

Personally I think the rng to the cards is integral to the theme of the job, something they could do is give us a stacking buff similar to warrior's wrath, where every time we cast a card we get a stack that increases healing potency, shield strength, card duration/potency or something else that I haven't mentioned. It could be connected to the sect you are in.

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NONONONONO........... please stop thinking of other jobs and try and mimic there skills and place it to us :( ... im already tired that people are trying to make us too similar to WHM and SCH..

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Originally Posted by Yhisa

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Interesting idea. Maybe add a trait, 10% chance of potency buff when you draw, to cover all 3 bases of royal road. Also I would prefer to change cards into something like this:

Spire Card = Increase healing potency - gives a buff to all healers, not just us
Ewer Card = Restore MP and TP - we shouldn't be a replacement for BRD/MCH and most classes now have a way to restore resources so I don't want to tie up two cards for these
Spear Card = Enhances target players abilities - not sure if it's possible to do this but spear is broke right now since it can't speed up abilities already on cooldown


Just an off idea but when you use Celestial Opposite it adds an effect that the next card drawn would be a debuff for enemy.
CO: Spear Card = Diminishes enemy abilities
CO: Balance Card = Decrease enemy damage dealt
CO: Arrow Card = adds slow effect to enemy
CO: Bole Card = Decrease Physical Defense
CO: Ewer Card = Decrease Magic Defense
CO: Spire Card = Decrease enemies HP - a DoT attack i guess lol

I'm not suggesting making us like a whm, or a warrior for that matter, all jobs have similar characteristics most seem to have a coupe dot abilities, whm has shields (protect stoneskin) sch has regen (whispering dawn) I was merely using the way wrath works as an example. Imagine you cast balance on a target, you get 1 stack of a buff that does something akin to what i mentioned earlier. Now every time that you cast another card you get another stack, up to a certain limit. This doesn't make us like a warrior, and it keeps our identity intact. It adds more utility to our cards and could be used to boost nocturnal sect, which many people seem to have a problem with.

Not a big fan of most of these suggestions. Royal Road drawing a card would defeat the purpose of royal road. Why not just automatically apply the rr buffs to draw if that was the case?

And you didn't even suggest the most obvious and effective fix that could happen to ast - shuffle being prevented from redrawing the same card.

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Originally Posted by Geardagas

Not a big fan of most of these suggestions. Royal Road drawing a card would defeat the purpose of royal road. Why not just automatically apply the rr buffs to draw if that was the case?

And you didn't even suggest the most obvious and effective fix that could happen to ast - shuffle being prevented from redrawing the same card.

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If Shuffle had the same cooldown as Draw I wouldn't mind if I redrew the same card. Shuffle is like a second opportunity and some times destiny sucks, the problem is that second opportunity to draw a card has 1 minute cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Yhisa

NONONONONO........... please stop thinking of other jobs and try and mimic there skills and place it to us :( ... im already tired that people are trying to make us too similar to WHM and SCH..

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What are you talking about? At least 50% of AST skills are borrowed version of existing healing spells/ abilities. Don't want to be similar to WHM or SCH? Then stop casting any spell with regen or shield effect. Essential dignity is somewhat similar to Lustrate with longer cooldown. Lightspeed = weaker version of presence of mind. Synastry is the only truly unique healing ability whcih breathes some fresh air into the job.

The card system is supposed to make us special but fail horribly due to its clanky mechanism and lackluster effect.

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Originally Posted by Ahlah

What are you talking about? At least 50% of AST skills are borrowed version of existing healing spells/ abilities. Don't want to be similar to WHM or SCH? Then stop casting any spell with regen or shield effect. Essential dignity is somewhat similar to Lustrate with longer cooldown. Lightspeed = weaker version of presence of mind. Synastry is the only truly unique healing ability which breathes some fresh air into the job.

The card system is supposed to make us special but fail horribly due to its clanky mechanism and lackluster effect.

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If the other parts are all painfully borrowed, wouldn't that make Yhisa's not wanting to borrow additional other-job mechanics to slap onto AST's only unique portion, cards, all the more understandable??? These suggestions are all aimed at making the card system powerful enough to be less clanky and/or less lackluster.

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Originally Posted by Ahlah

I see your point and don't get me wrong I am 100% for remake of card system.

ASTs who embrace borrowed (weaker) version of healing spells/abilities and reject copied mechanics with pontential benifits to the card system just sound hypocritical to me.

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I think that's only because there are plenty of much more (1) unique or (2) straightforward ways to buff them. And in the end, a borrowed cure/shield is... kind of hard to avoid. And even if we give AST so more unique design to play with on its more obvious (healing) benefits, we run the risk of being "too complicated".

For instance, here are some concepts that I felt could play into AST (and in a couple cases WHM or SCH):

• Variable Shield: Any shield that absorbs only a portion of incoming damage, instead of as much as it can. It can be a set amount (e.g. 10%) or conditional (based on % health that would be taken). It is more akin to a buff than an increase in maximum health. (The majority of AST shielding)
• Regenerating Shield: Any shield that regenerates its health or coverage (% absorption) over time. May or may not be removed upon reaching zero effect or health. (As below)
• Living Shield: Any shield that regenerates its health and/or coverage (% absorption) over time. Will be removed or at least change states if it loses all its health. (Bole, Collective Unconscious - Nocturne, etc.)
• Shared Shield: Any shield with a maximum health shared across multiple party members. (Collective Unconscious, Helios - Nocturne)
• Group Buff: Any buff that gains stacks or some other form of power increase per party member who shares or otherwise contributes to the buff. (Starry Sky, Orion, Sagittarius)

Playing around with some job revision ideas, I used these primarily to make the Sects, (Aspected) Helios, Aspected Benefic, and especially abilities like Collective Unconsciousness more unique, while changing Combust and Combust II (renamed Pulsar) to make use of the 'theoretical sun' concept, adding an actual draw-in effect to Gravity, and putting light/dark attachments to the Sects' effect on Helios (for obvious reasons I would have liked to have renamed Noctural Sect Helios to his sister Selene but cannot...). But even with all that, making AST more of a tactical, support... curasa seems an apt description... healer who tends towards either keeping everyone at a sort of level status quo or creating centers of activity (of gravity, even, if you forgive the pun-like word-y-thing) around which to act -- a true niche of its own -- I can't honestly say that it will necessarily be more fun to play.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

If the other parts are all painfully borrowed, wouldn't that make Yhisa's not wanting to borrow additional other-job mechanics to slap onto AST's only unique portion, cards, all the more understandable??? These suggestions are all aimed at making the card system powerful enough to be less clanky and/or less lackluster.

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I see your point and don't get me wrong I am 100% for remake of card system.

ASTs who embrace borrowed (weaker) version of healing spells/abilities and reject copied mechanics with pontential benifits to the card system just sound hypocritical to me.

I read this a lot...reduce draw cd. Imho that whould be a terrible idea.
Cards micromanagement reduces the healing output of an AST which is already quite weak when compared to other healers'. This is because managing cards will clip with the GCD, reducing the time you can actually use to heal. It's not like we can use AB twice or thrice when we need to draw-shuffle-use the card or spread. A 30 seconds cd is fine, what needs to be buff is the cards' effects.

I agree with this with idea that card cooldown should NOT BE DECREASED unfortunately. Card draw shouldn't have a lower cooldown timer because we need to focus on healing and other beneficial effects. If we theoretically had 10s cooldown on cards that'd just be so much micromanagement that it'd basically become overwhelming to the vast majority (90%?) of players to continuously use their cards AND heal in dungeons.

The main focus should be on improving cards and making them all lucrative and pleasing to use. At present they aren't pleasing to use and are actually punishing (drawing spire over and over and over again. I HATE spire to the point where I have just tuned out after drawing 8 in a row (yes really has happened before).

Have a similar idea but I don't agree with some of your reworks. Royal Road should be the potency buff for whatever card you draw or have already drawn. Spread would "spread" the card buff as an aoe to whatever card you draw or already drawn. Then shuffle would give the duration boost. The Draw ability itself needs to go on cooldown right after you use it instead of after you use the card. Because that is one of the reasons we hardly get to use Draw as much as we should. Because 20 seconds isn't that bad it's because ti doesn't go on cooldown until you use the card.

The cards are actually fine. Shuffle either needs another shorter cooldown or remove the double card draw part of it. Ugg that range sometimes. Collective and Oppo will most likely being altered in the near future as we are the only job with two useless cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

The cards are actually fine.

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No. Just no. The cards are the in game version of twiddling your thumbs or picking your nose. They are something to do to fill time between heals because SE knows you won't be doing much dps as an AST. The card potencies are in desperate need of an increase to make them significant. As they stand, they aren't meaningful in any way, and can't be counted on to change the tides during a battle, which is what they need to do.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Shuffle either needs another shorter cooldown

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You need to stop saying this, shuffle is fine as it is but yes it needs to stop redrawing the same card.
You can't make shuffle have a shorter cooldown because then it'd be up for EVERY draw rather than every other draw.
As shuffle is now you can use it on every 2nd draw it doesn't need to be any shorter than that.

And I would say you need to stop saying shuffle is fine.the less we can remove range from our cards the better. 16% or twenty two with shuffle is still meh.

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16% or twenty two with shuffle is still meh.

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Shuffle doesn't change the chance of drawing a different card. It's always a 17%~ chance to Draw any card, regardless if whether you Draw or Shuffle.

Shuffle is fine as it is; you can shuffle every other Draw. It's annoying to draw the same card twice, but that's RNG for ya.