I posted this in another topic about AH's, but I felt it was worthy of its own topic of discussion. Agree/disagree with my proposal and discuss.
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SO Let's say, for example...
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You just finished a day's work of levequesting, looting, farming, gathering, what have you. You return to the city and head to what used to be the entrance to the market wards. There's a choice of where you can warp: your home, the market wards, and the grand company area.
You go to your home. Inside is your array of personalized furniture, trophies, and trappings. You drop all your recently acquired items in your chest. Then you ring a bell. Your retainer appears at the door with a report on what he/she was able to sell, and hands you the gil you earned. You give him/her a new batch of items to bazaar, naming your price - while being able to compare prices of what other people are selling at the same time. The retainer returns back to bazaar duty.
Then say, you want go to buy something. You exit your house through the door - again there's a choice of where to warp to. You enter the market wards, but instead of seeing 10,000 NPCs standing around, it's a long hall with counters along the walls, full of other people also trying to buy/sell. But it's not too crowded, because SE was clever enough to distribute people among instanced areas evenly. You search for an item, say a new sword. When you find one that's satisfactory, you ring the bell, and the retainer that's selling the item appears before you with a customized greeting message from the retainer's owner. You can buy the item while still browsing his/her other wares. Retainer disappears when you're done. No one else sees what you're doing, because that just bogs down their loading times.
[SIZE="7"]This system does several things:[/SIZE]
1. It eliminates the clutter of people standing around. Not just the clutter of NPC bazaars, but the dreaded clutter of players standing in front of AH windows that we all feared in FFXI.
2. It allows for a house, and all the benefits of said housing. The feeling of belonging to an area. The ability to display items. A much needed quiet spot to escape from the hustle of the city.
3. It does not require an AH, or AH style buying system. You could still have an AH if you wanted, though.
4. It's faster, more convenient, and less costly to server load.
5. NPC retainers still have a place and function. So all you people attached to your hot mithras get to keep em.
6. It wouldn't affect the market negatively at all. You're still buying from people's bazaars and comparing prices on the fly like you're able to now. There's just less time involved in doing so.
7. It SHOULD be relatively easy to implement. C'mon SE, why not?
8. It makes SENSE.
Now, I haven't thought this through enough to see the downsides to this kind of system vs say an AH or continuing with what we have. If anyone can point them out, please do so.
My Dream of an Improved Market Ward System (No AH necessary)
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10-03-2011, 11:30 PMDenmoMy Dream of an Improved Market Ward System (No AH necessary)
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10-03-2011, 11:57 PMJinko
I don't see how searching for an item and then ringing a bell is that much faster really, people want to be able to search an item and buy it directly from the menu, same with selling an item, you should beable to select your item from your inventory, check the prices and then put it up for sale.
There would be no need for a seperate marketward as you could do all this from within your house and through your retainers menu, granted the marketward would be gone but so would all that extra server space. -
10-04-2011, 12:03 AMDenmo
A good point, but the Wards could also serve as a place for people AFK bazaaring to stand around, rather than in the city. Not only that but doing everything from your house just feels isolated and anti-social. Ever played Phantasy Star Universe? That's how it is there.
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10-04-2011, 12:59 AMZantetsuken
One market ward with different tables/booths/shops for each category of item would work pretty well.
Walk up to the Armorer's Counter, search for what you need, select and retainer appears behind the counter and bazaar auto-opens. Buy, and then leave
They could really make the wards look cool too. Multi-level, scenic views of the cities, stylized booths... I'd be a fan of this. -
10-04-2011, 01:01 AMCorrderio
Not bad, but wards are still limited to city states, which another issue that needs to be fixed.
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10-04-2011, 01:07 AMZantetsukenThey should implement special trade-route leves/quests that allow cities to share markets as long as the routes are open...Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrderio
It would solve the market issues while still keeping them separate and it would keep players involved in the process. -
10-04-2011, 01:08 AMDenmoIt wouldn't make sense for every city-state to share the same market. It's an argument of player immersion vs player convenience, and in this case I think player immersion takes precedence. It was never a big issue in FFXI. Each city state had its own seperate AH and micro-economies. Everyone migrated to Jeuno/Whitegate, and that became the overall market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrderio
Right now we're all in Uldah. I'd imagine we'll be in Ishgard when it comes out. The market goes where the players go. -
10-04-2011, 01:12 AMMalakhimI smell a tie-in with company/caravan quests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
On the note of market wards. I've said it for ages: They just need to make them livelier(the cities could go for the same treatment). Have random NPCs walking around, make them outdoors, give Limsa stone fountains and seagulls, let me hear muffled voice chatter or the sound of waves, make retainers use emotes when you select them. Make the experience feel like a real marketplace -
10-04-2011, 01:18 AMLeoDeSol
I kind of have/had a similar thought as the OP. A AH at this point seems like it would almost be a waste considering how the retainer system works now and with searching, etc. I think the system, as it is now, almost accomplishes the same thing as an AH would, perhaps even improves it, but it still lacks in a few basic functions and ranks low in overall ease of use.
I would love the system to be similar to Phantasy Star 2 system, similar to the above post. You interact with your retainer at the current summoning locations and in your house if they ever add those. Then, if you want to buy something, you do it through interaction with your retainer as well, but your retainer just facilitates the search options. The search would be similar to how it is now, your retainer would say something like, "Here is a current inventory of items for sale in the market". Once you choose what you want to buy, similar to today, the game would transport you to a market alley with only retainers selling those items, in booths. It would all work similar to today, and others would still see your retainer and other wares you have, but the game would auto-populate a ward instance with retainers selling 3 or 4 items your choose. Then you could search again.
As it is now, the retainers seem so pitiful. It is almost depressing entering Ulduh wards to see all of these poor slave retainers forces to stand around all day. It is just as depressing to enter the mostly lifeless Grid and Limsa wards as well.
Add to that the numerous other issues, such as empty retainers, sometimes from people who do not even play anymore, taking up space. I could not believe it when I came back from a 3 month break from the game and my retainers where still in the Ulduh wards, empty. I was glad they where though, as the wards are all full now, I would not have gotten a spot... -
10-04-2011, 01:27 AMFalcusYou mean just like how FFXI has all the AH's linked?Quote:
Originally Posted by Denmo
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10-04-2011, 01:29 AMDenmoThat must be a recent change, because when I played, Bastok, Windy, and Sandy all had seperate AH's from Jeuno/Whitegate. And I never heard any big complaints.Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcus
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10-04-2011, 01:33 AMJinkoIt was a massive inconvience in FF11 and they eventually linked them anyway, it needs to happen in FF14 aswell mainly to solve the issue with Ul'dah becoming the centralised hub, although I think it could be a bit late for that now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Denmo
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10-04-2011, 01:36 AMAmyRae
I don't believe adding more coats of paint to the market wards, or using new ideas that further its convolution, are really going to make them a suitable replacement for an auction house.
Frankly, the auction house concept was a fantastic, original idea when introduced in FFXI, and an idea that's often been copied by its competitors since. It's heartbreaking that SE would turn their backs on such a fine legacy and replace it with an economic system more suited to MMOs of the 90s. There's no sense in furthering a failed system. -
10-04-2011, 01:39 AMFear
FFXI had all of its AH's linked in an update about 2-3 months ago, sharing all the market wards in 1 area would be helpful to everyone, mainly people wouldn't need to go to ul'dah to buy stuff
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10-04-2011, 01:43 AMDenmoI could be seriously wrong, but I don't think XI was the first to implement an AH.Quote:
the auction house concept was a fantastic, original idea
As for AH, you could still have it and market wards with my idea. You could even overlay AH onto it, and have a "Buy it Now" feature for an added fee, thus making bidding cheaper and more viable. I'm not arguing for/against AH here. I just think that the wards could be an awesome thing if they did it right.
It's not "adding more coats of paint". It's doing away with whats wrong (crowded NPCs standing in a ward) and reshaping it into something that makes sense. -
10-04-2011, 01:51 AMAmyRaeYes, they came up with the auction house, first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Denmo
And yes, your idea is just more coats of paint (no offense). The problems with the Market Wards are that they aren't an auction house with no need to set up and use NPC vendors whatsoever. So rather than slowly morphing it into an AH (which is a silly idea), why not simply create an auction house properly from the ground up?
Besides, the market wards can stay. It has some use as an offline bazaar for those who really want such a thing. It just can't ever be anything that approaches the functionality of an auction house without fundamentally being turned into one. -
10-04-2011, 02:00 AMDenmoLink? I'm googling it all over and can't find any wiki or article saying XI did it first.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyRae
The problem with market wards is that they aren't Auction houses? What kind of argument is that?Quote:
And yes, your idea is just more coats of paint (no offense). The problems with the Market Wards are that they aren't an auction house with no need to set up and use NPC vendors whatsoever. So rather than slowly morphing it into an AH (which is a silly idea), why not simply create an auction house properly from the ground up?
Besides, the market wards can stay. It has some use as an offline bazaar for those who really want such a thing. It just can't ever be anything that approaches the functionality of an auction house without fundamentally being turned into one.
My solution would be dressing them up like AH's, yes. It would also find an easy solution for SE, one that's cost effective and doesn't require them to rewrite the system from the ground up. They would only have to redo the instanced areas and add housing, which they already planned on doing eventually. The only inconvenience to you would be hiring a retainer still. Can you tell me what other inconvenience my idea would be vs what an AH could do?
I suppose with my system you could also have your retainer set to have access to the markets of other city states, like say your retainer's well-traveled. That way someone in Gridania could call up the retainer of someone from Uldah, or whatever, and the markets would be linked simply by retainers on an individual basis.Quote:
FFXI had all of its AH's linked in an update about 2-3 months ago, sharing all the market wards in 1 area would be helpful to everyone, mainly people wouldn't need to go to ul'dah to buy stuff
If I could draw a picture of this I would lol. -
10-04-2011, 02:37 AMAmyRaeIt really helps to read the whole sentence, not just stop halfway. Context is a bitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Denmo
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10-04-2011, 02:43 AMDenmo
I did, and you should to. We want the same thing - Easy access to buying/selling items from a centralized location. You just want the label of Auction House, and to remove all ties from the current Market Wards system. I want to remove all the negative aspects of the wards and turn it into something functional that makes sense in the FFXIV world, without removing it as a whole. And I think that having your retainer as your interface to the markets is the way to go.
I don't think it's silly or a pipe dream. It's taking what's there and using it to give everyone what they want. Why is everyone so hung up on Auction Houses only? -
10-04-2011, 03:03 AMNakiamiie
Well, what I would like to see are open world retainer counters in addition to the market wards. More counters for lease in each ward of the market wards. Bigger wards and force other player's retainer to be a minimum distance from your retainers (but, your own retainers can be as close as you want to from each other).
I see it like this:
you seamlessly enter a lobby area of the market wards. The lobby is equipped with a big counter with NPCs behind to help search for items. When you search for an item, you can then pay an additional fee to have it directly delivered in your pockets rather than going to look for the retainer. If you don't want to pay that additional fee, you proceed to the elevator in the lobby (or passage or whatever) and choose which area of the market wards you'd like move to (as usual). Once you arrive in the desired ward, the area is bigger, with more counters for lease. The place is less cluttered with retainers because it is bigger, there are more counters available, a minimum distance between each retainer is applied and there is a limit on how many retainers can be in a single ward. Since, there are still retainers standing and retainers behind counters, it still looks lively, but less chaotic. It also looks like it is really part of the city-state rather than just a game zone separated from the main city.
Also, in the lobby search counter, you get the option to look for retainers looking to buy things, not just selling. If the price is right for you, you either pay a fee to have it delivered to the retainer or go see it in person as usual. -
10-04-2011, 03:22 AMSecret_Reeve
if SE puts player housing down that god forbidden alley i think i will rage quit.
that alley to the wards and companies has turned into nothing more than a shortcut for thier developement team.
instead of the "oh, lets add a new floor to uldah where players warp to thier home from the top of the stairs"
it till be
"lets let them warp from that alleyway"
just like the companies, hall of sands or w/e the main storyline quest bit down there is called, the wards and the other thing down there.
its LAZY GOD DAMNIT.
stop making everything accessible from one single point, ITS BORING
and another thing, would it have been hard to take that dumb monastry thing and put the company in there instead? that monastry is a WASTE OF SPACE!
i mean way to utilise an entire city..... -
10-04-2011, 03:23 AMAmyRaeThat's not it at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Denmo
It's the nature of the NPC vendors that the Market Wards use that irreparably prevents it from being anything like an Auction House. You could add all the conveniences you wanted, but if I have to shuffle around NPC to NPC to do any buying or selling, it's a step back from the straightforward medium that an Auction House provides.
It's the fundamental flaw you can't work around, no matter how much sunshine and flowers you add to it.
If you did make the Market Wards like an Auction House, it's because you've changed it exactly into an Auction House. And if this is the functionality you're striving for, then why not build a new Auction House with a fresh, rock solid foundation, not build it out of something that can't function as an Auction House at all? -
10-04-2011, 03:24 AMDenmoThat too, is a good point. My concern was making housing accessible. But it doesn't necessarily have to stem from the same warp point as the wards.Quote:
if SE puts player housing down that god forbidden alley i think i will rage quit.
that alley to the wards and companies has turned into nothing more than a shortcut for thier developement team.
instead of the "oh, lets add a new floor to uldah where players warp to thier home from the top of the stairs"
it till be
"lets let them warp from that alleyway"
just like the companies, hall of sands or w/e the main storyline quest bit down there is called, the wards and the other thing down there.
its LAZY GOD DAMNIT.
stop making everything accessible from one single point, ITS BORING
and another thing, would it have been hard to take that dumb monastry thing and put the company in there instead? that monastry is a WASTE OF SPACE!
You seem to have missed my original post. Context is a bitch, remember?Quote:
That's not it at all.
It's the nature of the NPC vendors that the Market Wards use that irreparably prevents it from being anything like an Auction House. You could add all the conveniences you wanted, but if I have to shuffle around NPC to NPC to do any buying or selling, it's a step back from the straightforward medium that an Auction House provides.
It's the fundamental flaw you can't work around, no matter how much sunshine and flowers you add to it.
If you did make the Market Wards like an Auction House, it's because you've changed it exactly into an Auction House. And if this is the functionality you're striving for, then why not build a new Auction House with a fresh, rock solid foundation, not build it out of something that can't function as an Auction House at all?
My proposal would make the wards into auction house-like halls. You stand at an empty counter where you begin searching for items you want to buy. When you find the item, the retainer selling the item appears before you, and you access its bazaar immediately. You can see whatever else the player has to sell, so it's still like a bazaar. And you can see the player's customized retainer, so there's a face to the person you're buying from. Which is (in my opinion) the original reason for having retainers.
The only reason the current market wards can't function like an AH "at all" right now is because you have to walk to the ward, then walk to the NPC, then buy. In my idea, you let the NPC do the walking. -
10-04-2011, 03:38 AMneizero
or they could just add the AH.
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10-04-2011, 03:45 AMDenmo*clap clap clap*Quote:
Originally Posted by neizero
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10-04-2011, 07:47 AMTsugaThat makes entirely too much sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by neizero