I was just thinking about this responding to the Tataru thread I just answered here. I was somewhat disappointed by that outcome, mostly because they denied me the pleasure of doing that to him myself.
It makes me wonder, do you ever think SE will ever allow us to essentially just kill some evil individual like that in cold blood? Or will every major kill be done in the instances rather than a cutscene?
(SPOILER) Raubahn and Teledji.
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07-31-2015, 10:39 AMKhalithar(SPOILER) Raubahn and Teledji.
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07-31-2015, 11:03 AMKaiser-Ace
Me personally, I say we killed Nebralius in cold blood. And I can't speak for everyone but I personally killed Livia sas Junes in cold blood to after what she did at the Waking Sands. I STILL want to put Lolorito in his place, but as of this moment he's off the hook for the time being since, as much as I despise the little creep, he really did save the Sultana for the good of Ul'dah, and by extension the good of his coffers, but again I'm giving him a pass of being a greedy, conniving, little creep since he's not exactly malevolent about it. Sure Lolorito is a jerk a lot of times but being a Jerk doesn't make some one evil.
As far as Adaleji goes though, When Rauhban went nuts on him I was standing there like "YEEEESSSS!!! That's what happens when you talk shit Adaleji!!". (Wish I could replay the MSQ where I kicked Ilbard across Thanalan though. I enjoyed that, possibly a little to much lol.) -
07-31-2015, 11:09 AMTheodric
We already kill countless major figures in cold blood. It'd make for a dull story if the Warrior of Light eliminated every single threatening individual in advance and never allowed any other character to intervene/dispatch our shared foes.
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07-31-2015, 11:41 AMKhalitharMaybe I should clarify further, we kill the threatening ones that attacked us. But for all intents and purposes, a character like Teledji is not a warrior or wielder or dark power, he's just a conniving little schemer with little in the way of defending himself outside of paid mercenaries. I'm wondering if we'll get a chance to do something along those lines, as far as I recall from the MSQ, every major character we kill was at least in some way threatening and capable of defending themselves. But if we were to attack someone like Teledji or Lolorito, they don't seem to have any way to personally defend themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
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07-31-2015, 11:49 AMKaiser-Aceuuuuh, I thought we were The Warrior of Light? I wouldn't think Killing Defenceless people, evil or not, is something we'd do from a lore perspective. There's a difference between killing an adversary who's hell bent on world domination/destruction and murdering a small time crook who couldn't defend him/her self even if they wanted too. Think of the Crystal Brave in Mor Dhona who was practically soiling his uniform at the mere thought of fighting us. Some one like that is just too pathetic to kill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalithar
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07-31-2015, 01:00 PMBelhi
I wasn't disappointed at Raubahn getting the kill cause he kind of deserved it and I like the major NPCs being proactive without steeling our limelight. Im kind of hoping we get to see Merlwyb and Kanna get to kick some ass at some point. We know Merlwyb can since she did in 1.X and Kanna is a the senior WHM to the two who train us.
As for killing in Cold Blood, rarely we are in a situation where it is worth it. Either we are putting down an enemy capable of defending themselves (which I think makes kicking their ass more satisfying) or the enemy is defenceless at which point killing them on the spot in cold blood isn't worth the political ramifications.
I do still feel we have a bone to pick with Lolorito. Regardless of his actions and intentions towards the others in Ul'dah, his actions towards the Scions held no such justification. I don't necessarily want to kill him but I do want to see him squirm. A character like him is much more satisfying to see brought low or humiliated. -
07-31-2015, 01:11 PMFrederick22Tecnicly, framing the Scions and the WoL was Teledji's idea, not Lorolito. He just went with the wind so he doesnt give any suspuscions to Teledji.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
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07-31-2015, 02:41 PMCilia
If the question, reframed, is "Will we ever get to kill someone purely for revenge?", the answer is... probably not.
This isn't that kind of story, or rather, we're not that kind of hero. While we do kill a lot of evil people, it's never purely for vengeance - there's always some greater cause we're fighting for, and having "Eorzea's hope" go and kill someone purely as an emotional response would rather sully his/her reputation and standing. Even as a dark knight, our target(s) are always people who have overstepped their bounds and disturbed the peace - we never fight and kill purely to satisfy our own lust for vengeance. -
07-31-2015, 07:12 PMBelhiIf that was the case he could have just dropped the act the moment Teledji died.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick22
More to the point,why did he keep the Sultana drugged when he had the means to wake her? Its notable that he only changed his whole tune the moment he learned that Ul'dah was likely facing yet another Garlean invasion. Suddenly the Scions and Raubahn had a use again. Lets be clear, even if he wasn't completely behind what happened to the Scions (and the thing with the Crystal Braves definitely was) he let it happen and did nothing to mitigate damage to the organisation. Raubahn might have some reason to forgive him but he's never given a reason that justifies what he did to the Scions. -
08-01-2015, 01:47 AMWhiteArchmage
Well, that's more an issue of timing, most of all. If Lolorito dropped the act when Raubahn killed Teledji, Raubahn would have probably still made a beeline for him before he could explain that the Sultana wasn't really dead (probably along the lines of: "You manipulative bastard! Are we all chess pieces in your little money grabbing game?"), Ilberd would still have faced off against Raubahn (since Ilberd's main issue is that he's really butthurt about Ala Mhigo). And, for us players, it took months between the end of ARR and the beggining of Heavensward but, really, only a few days to maybe a couple of weeks passed between that, and even a few days before that other event.
Could it have been handled better? Sure. Is that plotline over and dealt with? Abso-freaking-lutely not, and I'm really expecting it to continue through 3.x along with all the OTHER plotlines 3.0 opened up. -
08-01-2015, 01:59 AMFrederick22He couldnt, he needed to go with the wind to avoid any suspicios. But oh wait? did we have reprecussions? Did we were chased like criminals?Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
Remember that Lorolito end bussineswith Ilberld fast, so yea was not his idea. -
08-01-2015, 02:24 AMJonnycbad
We would never, in a cutscene, draw our weapons and mutilate an NPC for a multitude of reasons:
1) We are, in essence, chaotic-good.
2) I'm sure for job-lore/RP purposes, having a White Mage or Scholar draw their weapon and murder an NPC would be odd.
The work around is, anyone who we do kill has to be a combatant whom attacks us or threatens to harm others. -
08-01-2015, 02:28 AMJonnycbad
Also they don't want to have your character be forced to murder anyone in a cutscene for the small number of players who RP and may play a pacifist healer (in which case, if engaged in combat, the loophole is these players didn't kill the NPC but rather they kept alive their allies with healing magic and those players did the dirty work). But to force all players to draw their weapon to strike down an NPC automatically would make some players unhappy
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08-01-2015, 02:32 AMDaraliiDoesn't mean the WoL doesn't enjoy revenge. One of the dialogue options after the Vault was something like "I'll tear out Zephirin's heart for what he did. A life for a life."Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycbad
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08-01-2015, 02:56 AMCiliaNeutral good, actually, unless you're a dark knight. Even then, you're still more neutral good than chaotic good, since you never take any initiative against the corruption in Ishgard or elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycbad
... but that's arguing semantics. Either way, we can only fight and kill people who are disturbing the peace or are corrupt because that's what the kind of hero we are does. This isn't that kind of story.
Well, yes, but in the end even if we do have a selfish reason for fighting and killing the Archbishop and the Heavens' Ward, they have to be stopped for reasons beyond our personal grudge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daralii
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08-01-2015, 05:03 AMKhalitharIt is kind of funny when all your characters draw their weapons and you see the sch/arcanist/smn open up their book. But I'd love to see a scholar do that, maybe with something "time for your lesson in pain" or "I'm going to get creative with my anatomy study" then clubbing them with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycbad
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08-02-2015, 05:56 AMRannieI wish we could have done that to that knight and I wish I could replay that scene so I can choose that answer again and again and again. .....Quote:
Originally Posted by Daralii
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08-02-2015, 07:45 AMTheodricSer Zephirin didn't really do anything to justify being tortured. He was protecting his people and his charge - and saw the Warrior of Light as a threat. Haurchefant chose to get in the way and yes, his death was unfortunate, but you don't see a massive change in a society like Ishgard without prominent individuals perishing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rannie
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08-02-2015, 07:50 AMLaurontFor what? Preventing the Archbishop's plans from being unravelled by his untimely death, even assuming that that was achieved, which was by no means a given? What would torturing him accomplish? Like Graeham said, he chose to throw himself in the face of danger. Zephirin did nothing deserving of torture. The Archbishop himself, like the Garleans, although misguided, wanted to put an end to powers that had long been terrorising Eorzea and which threatened its very existence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rannie
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08-02-2015, 08:23 AMRannie
Seeing as how our character was the target for the untimely death yeah it warrants the Knights death it doesn't matter if he jumped in the way as a sacrifice. And my comment was to be able to chose the vengeance portion over and over (meaning the whole I'll rip his heart out). I liked haurchefant and due to the knight he's gone.
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08-02-2015, 05:34 PMTheodricIt wasn't meant to be taken literally. There's no benefit to torturing, mutilating or defiling Ser Zephirin. He was killed and that's that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rannie
The Dark Knight quests give a pretty good idea as to how dangerous it is for the Warrior of Light to give in to his darker desires anyway so it wouldn't really be of any benefit other than misguided fan appeasement. I wish people would settle for the fact that we've already got Hydaelyn's 'plot armour' and therefore ultimately end up taking down anything in our path. We don't need to go overkill by taking it even further. -
08-03-2015, 08:32 PMWalluh
Raubahn dunking Teledji made the whole cutscene chain worth it, really.
Zephirin's death disappointed me, not because we didn't mutilate him..but because we didn't even properly fight him.
We beat up the Archbishop, and a few of them as adds, and they all just died. There was nothing satisfying about that. Just poof, dust.
I wanted some face-to-face vengeance. At least let me actually fight him up close, jeez.