Bard DPS on dummy, need inputs

Hey.
My ilvl is 186 and I've got the Hive Bow. I think I used the best rotation possible but I'm not content with it. I hit 992dps over the course of 2:20, and I can upload a video of the parsing session if anyone is interested to go in depth. Thanks in advance.

link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whOi6Axmly8

Just curious, why are you stopping at 2m20s?

Don't get me wrong I love the new brd but I still think we could use some buffs. I don't have a parser (PS4) but I have practice immensely and I still feel that brd's dps is pretty bad. yes I get we have some utility that helps the group but still its not satisfying to have such low numbers. I really hope SE does something about this.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

Don't get me wrong I love the new brd but I still think we could use some buffs. I don't have a parser (PS4) but I have practice immensely and I still feel that brd's dps is pretty bad. yes I get we have some utility that helps the group but still its not satisfying to have such low numbers. I really hope SE does something about this.

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The intent is, that due to their ability to be an MP and TP battery, their dps will always be lower than just a "pure" dps class like a dragoon. BRD and MCH will always have the lowest dps under the FFXIV structure, due to their raid utilities. If you are satisfied with big numbers, another dps class may suit you more.

My main was Bard, first one to 60, and hated it. I just couldn't stand playing casting as a DPS. I'll probably level another DPS class later. But I switched over to AST and have been using it as my main since. Right now, my AST is 188 while bard sits at 180.

I've done my rotation on a dummy, and I parsed about 1,050 around the 3:00 mark. The thing about bard is, they are very very proc reliant. It doesn't even matter so much about the casting, but more that the Bloodletter Reset and the Straighter Shot proc - ON TOP of the crits you do, really makes the BRD spike in damage. I went 4 Bloodletters in a row without a single reset, which just ruins my overall damage.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Just curious, why are you stopping at 2m20s?

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It was supposed to be a 2 min parse but the parsing person told me too late :P.

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Originally Posted by tomtensfarfar

Hey.
My ilvl is 186 and I've got the Hive Bow. I think I used the best rotation possible but I'm not content with it. I hit 992dps over the course of 2:20, and I can upload a video of the parsing session if anyone is interested to go in depth. Thanks in advance.

link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whOi6Axmly8

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3 minutes without miseries end is generally the standard people compare.

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

The intent is, that due to their ability to be an MP and TP battery, their dps will always be lower than just a "pure" dps class like a dragoon. BRD and MCH will always have the lowest dps under the FFXIV structure, due to their raid utilities. If you are satisfied with big numbers, another dps class may suit you more.

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Unfortunately I do not like any other class in the game. BLM was awesome in 2.0 but I don't like 3.0 blm. I like range classes simple as that. And that whole mp/tp utility is total bs and just an excuse. Ninja and SMN brings just as much utility as a brd and don't try to run around that. Seriously a dps that can do in battle Raise and sub par healing is support but doesn't receive any penalty for raising while in combat o.O? Its a lazy way to not allow brds to be just as vital in dps as other classes. I'm not asking for melee based damage but I would like to see brds to be on the same level as a smn while not being a mp/tp battery. There is no excuse for brds to be a pathetic dps.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

3 minutes without miseries end is generally the standard people compare.

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Ok, thanks. Will have to do it a later time then.

How can you even begin to compare it without misery though? It goes without saying that it's a huge part of our dps.

I personally have no problem with bards dps (or new playstyle, for that matter). We are more than competitive as far as I'm concerned, and if you factor in the dps increase that requiem adds to the raid, we're on par with everyone else.

Waited way too long for first blood letter, should've been the first move you did after straight shot because you easily would've had another one by the time you actually used it and you delayed some of your bloodletters for less damaging/cooldown oGCD moves. You were good with your cooldowns from what I saw pairing up raging strikes/internal release and barrage/hawk eye/blood for blood. You're opener is a mess, where did you learn it from? I'd suggest using either of these two openers. 1 2 as both have been tested as reliable, the first has a good ramp up whereas the second has amazing burst, but delays your cooldowns a little be more if you use barrage on your second EA. You also should pop your flaming arrow after you pop all of your cooldowns so it gets the full benefit of the damage and crit ups.

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Originally Posted by Geardagas

How can you even begin to compare it without misery though? It goes without saying that it's a huge part of our dps.

I personally have no problem with bards dps (or new playstyle, for that matter). We are more than competitive as far as I'm concerned, and if you factor in the dps increase that requiem adds to the raid, we're on par with everyone else.

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Because it fucks with the parse on if a dummy is to get within 20% of their HP to use it before filling up again. It skews it to be unreliable because that would never happen in an actual fight.

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Originally Posted by Geardagas

How can you even begin to compare it without misery though? It goes without saying that it's a huge part of our dps.

I personally have no problem with bards dps (or new playstyle, for that matter). We are more than competitive as far as I'm concerned, and if you factor in the dps increase that requiem adds to the raid, we're on par with everyone else.

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o.O? what? So drg's crit buff and piercing debuff, nins group wide buffs and slashing debuff, smn's virus, war's slashing debuffs are not as important as brd's requiem? Hate to break it to you but brd's and mch dps is horrible and not even close to being on par with SMN. And yet SMN has virus, in battle raise and sub par healing to help with tight spots and it's just as viable as brds tp/mp songs. I don't know how many times I have seen SMN saving a group from a wipe all bc of in battle raise to a healer, tank or dps.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

Unfortunately I do not like any other class in the game. BLM was awesome in 2.0 but I don't like 3.0 blm. I like range classes simple as that. And that whole mp/tp utility is total bs and just an excuse. Ninja and SMN brings just as much utility as a brd and don't try to run around that. Seriously a dps that can do in battle Raise and sub par healing is support but doesn't receive any penalty for raising while in combat o.O? Its a lazy way to not allow brds to be just as vital in dps as other classes. I'm not asking for melee based damage but I would like to see brds to be on the same level as a smn while not being a mp/tp battery. There is no excuse for brds to be a pathetic dps.

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NIN can only restore tp to one other party member every 2 min. Bards tp regen blows that out of the water by doing it to everyone in the party. SMN shouldn't be raising in any kind of competitive environment, that is a healer task and if SMN has to rez it is a 7 second cast and consumes a ton of MP It is an enormous drain on dps and resources for the SMN. SMN healing is a joke and should not be done in anything above level 30 or so because it is so pitifully weak (BLM can cross class this too, so its not a support component from my perspective).

BRD and MCH clearly have utility above the other Jobs, as such the lower dps. Devs have recently commented on this after HW release and solidified this outlook on the Jobs as being correct.

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Originally Posted by Medieval

Waited way too long for first blood letter, should've been the first move you did after straight shot because you easily would've had another one by the time you actually used it and you delayed some of your bloodletters for less damaging/cooldown oGCD moves. You were good with your cooldowns from what I saw pairing up raging strikes/internal release and barrage/hawk eye/blood for blood. You're opener is a mess, where did you learn it from? I'd suggest using either of these two openers.1 2 as both have been tested as reliable, the first has a good ramp up whereas the second has amazing burst, but delays your cooldowns a little be more if you use barrage on your second EA. You also should pop your flaming arrow after you pop all of your cooldowns so it gets the full benefit of the damage and crit ups.



Because it fucks with the parse on if a dummy is to get within 20% of their HP to use it before filling up again. It skews it to be unreliable because that would never happen in an actual fight.

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Thanks for the in depth analysis. Yeah, I noticed I used Blunt Arrow instead of Bloodletter when I double weaved, I blame it on me being tired cause I never prioritise that one otherwise.

I didn't think double weaving was still worth it with Minuet, but I parsed like an extra 50dps over 2 mins using the first rotation you linked, so thanks. I don't understand why you wanna use bloodletter right before using Straight Shot though, sure it'll be up again before the buffs wear off but it just feels strange. I did use flaming arrow after all the buffs so I'll ignore that one :P.

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

NIN can only restore tp to one other party member every 2 min. Bards tp regen blows that out of the water by doing it to everyone in the party. SMN shouldn't be raising in any kind of competitive environment, that is a healer task and if SMN has to rez it is a 7 second cast and consumes a ton of MP It is an enormous drain on dps and resources for the SMN. SMN healing is a joke and should not be done in anything above level 30 or so because it is so pitifully weak (BLM can cross class this too, so its not a support component from my perspective).

BRD and MCH clearly have utility above the other Jobs, as such the lower dps. Devs have recently commented on this after HW release and solidified this outlook on the Jobs as being correct.

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Forget about it man. I agree with you as a BRD main my self. and in my opinion playing BRD, we can be a little on par with the pure class dps if your going to play it really well. If Astral145 feels that BRD are weak and should get a buff, then(he needs to work on his rotations more) he wants BRD to be broken again(which will not happen). and from reading his POV on BRD/MCH he clearly hasnt done any hard content at all since he does'nt feel how useful BRD/MCH in a party. He's only basing his POV from easy dungeons/trials which you dont have to use any BRD/MCH utility as much.

its not worth explaining to him.

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Originally Posted by Rysk

Forget about it man. I agree with you as a BRD main my self. and in my opinion playing BRD, we can be a little on par with the pure class dps if your going to play it really well. If Astral145 feels that BRD are weak and should get a buff, then(he needs to work on his rotations more) he wants BRD to be broken again(which will not happen). and from reading his POV on BRD/MCH he clearly hasnt done any hard content at all since he does'nt feel how useful BRD/MCH in a party. He's only basing his POV from easy dungeons/trials which you dont have to use any BRD/MCH utility as much.

its not worth explaining to him.

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Exactly BRD's utility is for savage raids or when other players are screwing up so bad that it makes the healer burn through mp. And saying that I have a bad rotation is an opinion ... its not that hard to weave in buffs in-between gcds and making sure to pop crit buff b4 applying dots for those sexy blood procs or aoe. BRD 3.0 is all about timing and knowing the mechanics and knowing when to use certain buffs...ect. I wouldn't mind if the devs made brds lose 45% dmg at the cost of singing a pretty little tune but if not being a tp/mp battery brds should be on par with SMN. Brds already have 20% to 25% less damage than other dps with comparable gear/skill 100% of the time. Then on top of that we lose another 15% damage when we sing a song? What kind of logic is that?

PLUS brds TAKE UP A DPS SLOT IN ALL CONTENT. Show me where there is a SUPPORT DPS slot in DF?

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Originally Posted by Astral145

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I mean when all the top tier raid groups are using bards it's pretty obvious they're in a good spot.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

PLUS brds TAKE UP A DPS SLOT IN ALL CONTENT. Show me where there is a SUPPORT DPS slot in DF?

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- its just a DF slot it doesnt define your "class" what ever man.

If you think you can play your BRD well, then there's no need for complaining here and you should be close to the other DPS's damage dealt. If you feel BRD is weak then youre not doing it right.
Im tired of seeing crying posts when it comes to BRD get over it

- log in to your game, practice your BRD and rotations, do hard content and get good! and thats all ther is to it. period

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Originally Posted by tomtensfarfar

I didn't think double weaving was still worth it with Minuet, but I parsed like an extra 50dps over 2 mins using the first rotation you linked, so thanks. I don't understand why you wanna use bloodletter right before using Straight Shot though, sure it'll be up again before the buffs wear off but it just feels strange. I did use flaming arrow after all the buffs so I'll ignore that one :P.

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You want to open with blood letter so it's up sooner and it doesn't hurt your oGCD weaving. If you are follow the 1st opener then you should have a decent amount of buffs up and blood letter should be up again even if you got 0 procs. It's a good opener, just keep working with it and most of your buffs should realign.

As for everyone else..While I also have issues with Bard let's try and focus.. OP is asking about Bard's rotation.....

With Ilvl 190 is parse 950 Dps.
With Dragoon debuff on the dummy iam arround 1050 dps.

3 min without miserys.

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

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Problem with that is that BRD and MCH get double dipped with damage reduction. Our weapon damage is already significantly lower, and then on top of that BRD loses 15% damage while singing + cast time and MCH lose all of their turret damage during promotion.

Also, no SMN would hardcast a raise. It would be used with a swiftcast. Only other thing SMN needs swiftcast for would be reviving a pet or on a 3 sec cast shadow flare.

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Originally Posted by Hakuohsama

With Ilvl 190 is parse 950 Dps.
With Dragoon debuff on the dummy iam arround 1050 dps.

3 min without miserys.

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That's... Actually quite low for a dummy. You should be doing 1050+ in 190 and 1150 with a dragoon. my ilvl was 184 and my highest is 1040 without a pet.

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Originally Posted by Rysk

- its just a DF slot it doesnt define your "class" what ever man.

If you think you can play your BRD well, then there's no need for complaining here and you should be close to the other DPS's damage dealt. If you feel BRD is weak then youre not doing it right.
Im tired of seeing crying posts when it comes to BRD get over it

- log in to your game, practice your BRD and rotations, do hard content and get good! and thats all ther is to it. period

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lol BRD is a retarded hybrid dps... If the devs think that brds are a support class then they need to give brds real support utilities. Being a mp/tp battery does not make it a true support class. And since brd takes up a dps slot it needs to be doing comparable dmg to a smn with comparable gear/skill when not being a lol tp/mp battery. Smn's can out dps a brd by 150+ on a parser even with drg's piercing debuff w/out breaking a sweat.

Smn has sub par healing, in battle swift-cast + raise, eye for an eye and virus which all are support utilities. But SMNs do not receive any penalties. By your logic SMN is also a support dps but I don't see them getting any penalties for doing a swift-cast raise in battle. So what if they lose a little mp for doing a raise, they can easily get that mp back due to how much down time there is inbetween phases + they get a nice chunk of mp back every time they use Aetherflow.

Again there is no such thing as a TRUE SUPPORT dps class in this game. All the devs have done was spit in the face of BRD players by decreasing their dmg output by 20% to 30% compared to other dps with comparable gear/skill 100% of the time. And to insult to injury there is also another 15% dmg reduction when you sing a song. The devs should have fixed the problems instead of being lazy. Last time I checked this was p2p mmo not a f2p mmo. There is no excuse for this.

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Originally Posted by Medieval

That's... Actually quite low for a dummy. You should be doing 1050+ in 190 and 1150 with a dragoon. my ilvl was 184 and my highest is 1040 without a pet.

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that sounds about right. i was sitting at 995 for i183, and i was kinda screwing up because i kept forgetting to use blunt arrow and repelling shot.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

lol BRD is a retarded hybrid dps... If the devs think that brds are a support class then they need to give brds real support utilities. Being a mp/tp battery does not make it a true support class. And since brd takes up a dps slot it needs to be doing comparable dmg to a smn with comparable gear/skill when not being a lol tp/mp battery. Smn's can out dps a brd by 150+ on a parser even with drg's piercing debuff w/out breaking a sweat.

Smn has sub par healing, in battle swift-cast + raise, eye for an eye and virus which all are support utilities. But SMNs do not receive any penalties. By your logic SMN is also a support dps but I don't see them getting any penalties for doing a swift-cast raise in battle. So what if they lose a little mp for doing a raise, they can easily get that mp back due to how much down time there is inbetween phases + they get a nice chunk of mp back every time they use Aetherflow.

Again there is no such thing as a TRUE SUPPORT dps class in this game. All the devs have done was spit in the face of BRD players by decreasing their dmg output by 20% to 30% compared to other dps with comparable gear/skill 100% of the time. And to insult to injury there is also another 15% dmg reduction when you sing a song. The devs should have fixed the problems instead of being lazy. Last time I checked this was p2p mmo not a f2p mmo. There is no excuse for this.

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edit; i take my previous comment back. with the way you are complaining, a response would fall on deaf ears. the two parts i bolded i will talk about tho. smn does not have sub par healing compared to an equally geared sch. its piss poor healing. then there are the times where people are dying and the smn raises them. say this happens twice, or more, or they have to grab a healer that died. mp regen isnt that big, aetherflow mp regen is tied to your total mp pool. there is a pretty good chance that that smn is going to have trouble keeping dmg up with no mp.

Yea it takes some practice to remember to slowly move back up to the dummy with WM on.