A1 Savage Astrologian PoV

Here is a video due to many requests for Astrologian PoV A1 Savage.

Enjoy

what video?

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Originally Posted by Arragomis

what video?

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He forgot to put or we got all white and is blinding us with his Astral Stasis xD

Is this an ironic post trying to reflect how many progression orientated raid groups are going into savage with(out) an AST in the party?

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Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

Is this an ironic post trying to reflect how many progression orientated raid groups are going into savage with(out) an AST in the party?

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That was my guess, and I chuckled at OP's post.

Good show.

Nahh he just forgot to link it. Same guy posted it on reddit earlier. Link for those who wants
youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=JCz7xFGQBKM

FIery is the best astro in the game atm. Showing that a good player who knows the class well can do all current content with it. Hes an amazing player and showing people that astro arent bad.. people are used to white mage carrying bad players. or scholars carrying bad dps.

Gasp. Could this be a possible turning of tables in the astro is fail mentality on these drama filled forums. 3 Threads on the first page of Astro love makes me all tingly inside.

If you don't mind my asking, is there any particular reason you chose to spotheal in a single target fashion over the usual aoe heal most of the time?

Grats and all, but I thought this thread was a lot funnier before it provided a link :<

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Originally Posted by FieryTail

Here is a video due to many requests for Astrologian PoV A1 Savage.

Enjoy

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Could you post some videos of you doing this in Nocturnal Sect?

This video is funny because it actually highlight the problems of AST...

- He actually used 3 AoE heal ( aspected helios ) during the whole fight because lets be real if he did more, he wouldn't have any mana anymore .

- He used Celestial opposition to extend his own mana regen buff, not for the party. ( because its probably the best use at the moment, which is sad)

- The real healers of the fight are the SCH and Eos ( props to Eos, very good job!)

- 80% of collective unconscious potency is wasted everytime because people need to move

- spamming benefic is so fun!

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Originally Posted by kiraan

- He actually used 3 AoE heal ( aspected helios ) during the whole fight because lets be real if he did more, he wouldn't have any mana anymore .

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-Gasp- You mean AST isn't actually a mini-WHM and is meant to be played differently? Or maybe he trusted his raid group enough or understood that over time health regen will be enough to top the raid? Fancy that.

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Originally Posted by kiraan

- He used Celestial opposition to extend his own mana regen buff, not for the party. ( because its probably the best use at the moment, which is sad)

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So he didn't get the best opportunity to use CO. That's unfortunate but it's the same with assize - sometimes its used just from MP regen rather than the damage or heal.

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Originally Posted by kiraan

- 80% of collective unconscious potency is wasted everytime because people need to move

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Not any different from Sacred Soil (but the function in diurnal stance is different, so it is different in the point of its actual usage) or Sacred Prism.

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Originally Posted by kiraan

- The real healers of the fight are the SCH and Eos ( props to Eos, very good job!)

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Please really? It's no different from other A1 clears where the WHM heals one tank and the SCH heals the other tank. Props to the healing duo (trio) for working together and trusting each other.

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Originally Posted by kiraan

- spamming benefic is so fun!

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Spamming physick/cure (variations) also fun.

Let's play the quote game!

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Originally Posted by Rewind

-Gasp- You mean AST isn't actually a mini-WHM and is meant to be played differently? Or maybe he trusted his raid group enough or understood that over time health regen will be enough to top the raid? Fancy that..

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Trust? No, just NO, its just not efficient at all to use AoE as AST, and you have no CD to boost the potency either. AoE are in the base healing kit of every healer. When i play AST, i'm trying to avoid doing them as much as i can because i don't have the mana safety of SCH, or the increase potency of WHM. If for you AST should just put some regen here and there, and let your healing partner carry you, i don't know what to say

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Originally Posted by Rewind

So he didn't get the best opportunity to use CO. That's unfortunate but it's the same with assize - sometimes its used just from MP regen rather than the damage or heal..

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Problem is, its not "sometimes" in this case, its always and with assize you can at least heal at least 2 people with it, but if you actually need it right away, you didnt use it proactively and healed people at the same time but thats another issue.

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Originally Posted by Rewind

Not any different from Sacred Soil or Sacred Prism..

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Totally irrelevant, He is in diurnal so i don't know why you try to compare heals over time and damage reduction. AST can't do anything else at all when they use it.

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Originally Posted by Rewind

Please really? It's no different from other A1 clears where the WHM heals one tank and the SCH heals the other tank. Props to the healing duo (trio) for working together and trusting each other..

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Its actually different as in its much safer to use WHM/SCH. They were so much times when people were at 5-10% and wouldn't be healed until Eos healed

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Originally Posted by Rewind

Spamming physick/cure (variations) also fun.

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I'll give you this one!

Lycoris it isbecause astro is not a whitemage. They are not played like a white mage. Since aspected benefic is a burstish regen its basically ahalf potency benefic with a regen you can use it to supplement the aoe healing by having rolling hots and spot healing. An astro is meant to assist the group in anyway, by a player by player basis . Based on the cards you have every card is usedin some situation and spot healing ismore MP efficient than spamming a lower potency Medica.

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Originally Posted by Arragomis

Lycoris it isbecause astro is not a whitemage. They are not played like a white mage. Since aspected benefic is a burstish regen its basically ahalf potency benefic with a regen you can use it to supplement the aoe healing by having rolling hots and spot healing. An astro is meant to assist the group in anyway, by a player by player basis . Based on the cards you have every card is usedin some situation and spot healing ismore MP efficient than spamming a lower potency Medica.

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I know ast isn't a whm. What I mean is why use only those spells? A single helios or aspect helios is cheaper than 4 aspect benefic. Sch isn't exactly the greatest aoe spammer either, having to use eos' hot cd, a cd to make succor all heals and not shields, or an aetherflow for indom. Each healer casting one aoe heal seems more efficient than one having to use two, or one aoeing and the other using enough single target to have used more mp than that one aoe would have cost.

And I really don't buy into the range thing. Medica2 is the ONLY aoe heal that big, whm's other two aoe heals, all of sch aoe heals, and ast aoe heals are ALL 15y. Sure we can't increase the potency like a whm can. I'm not saying to spam it. I am saying you can probably use more than one or two aoe heals and still be ok.

But I don't have a static to do savage with, so what do I know /sarcasm

I'm confused with this thread. The general consensus was AST can do savage but a WHM can just do it better.

I saw some party members were on the brink of death many times, and the AST had to single heal ( to conserve mana) instead of AoE which a WHM would be doing. I'm happy to see a video of an AST completed a floor of savage but dang that was too scary. I've seem much safer videos with a WHM.

The game was a GG but it just showed how SCH with Eos carried the healing in a well-organized party.
AST took care of 2 people: tank and himself, while SCH+Eos took care of 5 people + himself. That pretty much says it all.
So AST took a role of a secondary healer, throwing arrow cards on some DPS and stuff. But if that "secondary healer" was another SCH with selene, everything would've been less dangerous and more smooth.

Right, the video just basically showed that AST can keep alive a tank and himself (With some very dangerous situations where the tank dropped on 1 HP).

SCH mainly did all the rest (6 People) pretty safely, so props for him.

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Originally Posted by Arragomis

FIery is the best astro in the game atm. Showing that a good player who knows the class well can do all current content with it. Hes an amazing player and showing people that astro arent bad.. people are used to white mage carrying bad players. or scholars carrying bad dps.

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so what your saying is that while the other two healing classes can carry mistakes, the AST cannot while still being on the same level as the other healers?

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM im beginning to see an issue here.

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Originally Posted by kiraan

Let's play the quote game!

Trust? No, just NO, its just not efficient at all to use AoE as AST, and you have no CD to boost the potency either. AoE are in the base healing kit of every healer. When i play AST, i'm trying to avoid doing them as much as i can because i don't have the mana safety of SCH, or the increase potency of WHM. If for you AST should just put some regen here and there, and let your healing partner carry you, i don't know what to say

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What? AoE healing is the base of all healers? SCH 2.0 had inefficient AoE healing and whilst it has a tiny smidge more utlity in 3.0 . Succor was/is mainly prepatory and is still completely inefficient to spam. On A1 savage a bard will ballad during the run phase regardless if its a WHM/SCH combo or an AST/SCH combo. Maybe be a bit less conservative and push out a bit more HPS? The AST in the video was also quite conservative in the pretty much perfect kill video.

Even for my somewhat casual raid group astro has been fine, (about 12 hours a week raiding).
It is really not that hard to do A1 as Astro. We got server first on our server with me as astro, and it took 3 pulls to kill it the second time, and wipes were not healing issues.
A2 is too easy to even bother comparing classes.
A3 We have been working on and synastry is pretty clutch. The enrage is just really tight, and we don't have the time/resources/care to change our group comp to squeeze out more dps (example changing from monk/pally -> darknight/ninja), so maybe next week with weapons.

I think people are just not good at the class, and that makes sense it takes far more timing and off gcd ability clicking than a whm. The healing potency for time is nearly identical for basic spam abilities. 5% potency loss for casting 5 % faster and 5 % less mana use. Considering the amount of over healing a whm ability typically does (if your saying you don't overheal at least 5% your on drugs) it can actually end up more mana efficient, and I believe this will be even more true with people buying weapons next week (thus more overhealing).
The higher alpha heal on your HoTs also means you its less of a risk to use it when the tank isn't topped off, leading to more challenging but more effective timing (thus less overhealing again).

For buffs synastry is an amazing cooldown, for 2 target healing (every savage?), it just has to be coordinated with your other healer, example in a3 is let them dps during it by force taking the damage down buff, or in A1 by healing a tank and aspecific prey target. I also think people just have to be more calculated and proactive in using spear on luminiferous and using celestial on lum+ewar+lightspeed combinations, which means you can end with far more mana per time than a whm.


Now I don't even think its nearly as a good as a sch for its role. Hell act 2 is probably easiest with sch/sch, because 0 aoe healing needed, which is a separate issue. But as far as a whm equivalent I think it is perfect. (Even better in meeting dps checks and burst 2 target healing.)

I think as people get better gear, for more buffer hp and larger heals (more overhealing), this will become abundantly apparent.

I just think its funny when people who can't get past A1 as a WHM are saying its a bad class. I just think there are too many people who have yet to practice it enough / don't understand the mechanics of it / can't handle clicking more buttons faster.

that scholar was badass for real though, he did way more work than that astro

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Originally Posted by Staris

Snip.

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Let haters hate. Everything you said is true and some players are just bitching because they need jobs to be unbalanced so they can be carried by other people. They bitch about every single aspect of everything and can't realize that different jobs require different strategies, and the group in the video just used one strategy over another. I was doing A1 Savage as SCH yesterday, because my group can't meet DPS checks without me going over 460 DPS on Faust as SCH (my peak was 560), and during oppressors I was having to do a lot to help my WHM partner, because he was struggling to keep his targets alive (we split the group in two, to not overheal). Next week, I'll get back to my Astro (which was doing fine, by the way) and things will be easier, since I spotted a lot of windows to use my specific cooldowns during the Oppressors and my AoE healing will be better than SCH's even in Nocturnal.

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Originally Posted by Staris

I think people are just not good at the class, and that makes sense it takes far more timing and off gcd ability clicking than a whm. The healing potency for time is nearly identical for basic spam abilities.

*snip*

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Your post pretty much nailed it Staris. It's all about quick reactions and taking advantage of the speediness of the job's skills. An already struggling/inefficient healer playing the job would only make it more apparent. Also the higher alpha heal on AoEs also makes up for the longer cast time.

On a dps side though, it's not even near to what a SCH dpsing most of the time would bring (since both healers was spamming heal as hell). You are comparing AST to WHM only but the thing is it affects SCH gameplay too, so actually when you do comparisons you should take in account the SCH too.

In this video no healers did actually dps except at the very begining of the fight like any healers compo would do anyway, and then they were only healing.

So the AST + SCH <<<<<<<< WHM + SCH just because what an AST AND a SCH had to do, the WHM ALONE can mostly do it by himself, with the sch/ast dpsing.

So yeah, you still can clear any content with AST. This is not the question (for me). What I want is to be able to take ANY healers compo and that it remains equal in any domain, even in the solo healing and dps part.

I think a WHM/AST with the AST dpsing most of the time can be better, except for obvious situations when Synastry is very powerful. That you use Ewer on yourself is more than ok, but using CO and spear just on you... I still don't agree. Ewer should be enough, and it's even truer in dps assumption since giving you more MP to dps more is not worth the dps you could give to the actual real dps you have in your team.

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Originally Posted by Kelya

On a dps side though, not even near to what a SCH dpsing most of the time wouould bring (since both healers was spamming heal as hell). You are comparing AST to WHM only but the thing is it affects SCH gameplay too, so actually when you do comparisons you should take in account
So y
I think a WHM/AST with the AST dpsing most of the time can be better, except for obvious situations when Synastry is very powerful. That you use Ewer on yourself is more than ok, but using CO and spear just on you... I still don\\\\\\\\\\'t agree. Ewer should be enough, and it\\\\\\\\\\'s even truer in dps assumption since giving you more MP to dps more is not worth the dps you could give to the actual real dps you have in your team.

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That\\\\\\'s just the way they did it. In my group our sch cleric stances 90 percent of the fight and did 500 dps. Nearly identical to our other group who had a whm instead of astro. While I dumped balance cards on the summoner on cool down.

Props to clearing, you clearly know how to play the class, unfortunately the video honestly highlights the fact that AST is simply not as well equipped as it should be. The AST only casted aspected helios 3 times, and i think 1 regular helios. That's really nothing throughout a aoe heavy fight like A1, the SCH was forced to do the majority of the aoe healing because honestly, if AST did any more, they would have been completely out of mana instead of being almost completely out at many points, like they were.

I also have to give huge props to your DPS and tanks because honestly neither healers were able to do much dps because of the healing strain put on the sch. While I'm not saying you are a bad astro, quite the opposite, it's just that it has become more and more clear that AST is simply inferior to the other 2 healers, and it needs to be remedied.

Psycho this is where you are wrong. The Healers did their jobs, the dps did theirs. the tanks theirs. THe astro supported its party with well timed buffs and heals. The thing about A1s is its not as aoe intensive as people make it out to be. THere are aoes yes. But you dont spam aoe heals, you Hot and wait ands pot heal as needed. The fairy alone has the ability to top off after HOT rolling its not as heal intensive as people complain. There are specific times AOE goes out, and there is specific times when tanks need top offs.They apparently knew when toheal and when not to.The cards helped push the dps, helped resource management, and the astro healed "efficiently"so did the sch. Neither carried the other THIS is how communication works. They are great heals in capable hands.. but TERRIBLE heals in the hand of players who are used to spamming medica. I will say it again. Astro are a spot heal/focus heal healer.

They have aoes. but only to SUPPLEMENT the other healers. They are not a whm. or a sch, they are an ASTRO.

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Originally Posted by Arragomis

Psycho this is where you are wrong. The Healers did their jobs, the dps did theirs. the tanks theirs. THe astro supported its party with well timed buffs and heals. The thing about A1s is its not as aoe intensive as people make it out to be. THere are aoes yes. But you dont spam aoe heals, you Hot and wait ands pot heal as needed. The fairy alone has the ability to top off after HOT rolling its not as heal intensive as people complain. There are specific times AOE goes out, and there is specific times when tanks need top offs.They apparently knew when toheal and when not to.The cards helped push the dps, helped resource management, and the astro healed "efficiently"so did the sch. Neither carried the other THIS is how communication works. They are great heals in capable hands.. but TERRIBLE heals in the hand of players who are used to spamming medica. I will say it again. Astro are a spot heal/focus heal healer.

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I am aware that they are not a WHM or SCH, however casting 3 aoe heals the entire 10 minute fight is not pulling your weight in the aoe department as much as you should. Sure eos can just whispering dawn every minute, sure the sch can waste a stack of aetherflow for indom, or waste 1300 MP on a emergency tactics succor, the sch is pretty much carrying the group in the aoe department, and you cannot say otherwise. Just because the AST "isnt a whm" doesn't mean they aren't supposed to aoe. It's the fact they simply CAN'T aoe heal without going oom in a fight like that. It's because of that reason the sch is unable to increase dps with selene, or go cleric to help with DPS, sure they are a healer, and healers heal, but in the progression world you often need to help dps to make progress.

Astro needs help, please stop trying to play it off with "oh they are helping the raid with their cards." They really ARE NOT. It has been shown that selene helps with dps more than a AST with their cards. Sure the newly fixed MP TP cards are useful, but AST's utility simply does not outweigh their weakness. Period.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

I was doing A1 Savage as SCH yesterday, because my group can't meet DPS checks without me going over 460 DPS on Faust as SCH (my peak was 560), and during oppressors I was having to do a lot to help my WHM partner, because he was struggling to keep his targets alive (we split the group in two, to not overheal). Next week, I'll get back to my Astro (which was doing fine, by the way) and things will be easier, since I spotted a lot of windows to use my specific cooldowns during the Oppressors and my AoE healing will be better than SCH's even in Nocturnal.

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So.... how exactly was your AST better than a SCH/WHM combo? Care to elaborate further? I'm genuinly interested in knowing. What about the DPS check on AST/I'm guessing WHM? Combo. And how is nocturnal better than SCH? How would it be easier to help out the WHM keeping his targets alive than as a SCH?

I have a literal legit questions to a lot of the Pro-Astrologians. What are we trying to prove? Maybe I can get on the same page.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

I have a literal legit questions to a lot of the Pro-Astrologians. What are we trying to prove? Maybe I can get on the same page.

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Not "pro" anything. This video is a useful resource for people who just like to play AST and for devs to see AST in play. All the negativity does nothing for the game and saying "lol gg sch and eos for carrying" is just terrible for the actual player behind the AST.

Yes AST needs work but its still /playable/ and sometimes people just want to have fun and play a different class.

So a Astro does A1 Savage and the first things out of people's mouth are "lol gg sch carried ?"

Thought the point of Astro was to support the other healer and the party through the use of buffs ?

This pretty much confirms what is already known. The card effects are minuscule and barely have any impact on the fight and I could barely see them being used at all, the skill was off cooldown for the majority of the fight. Sure, you can do a party wide balance (5% buff) at the start but that's about it. Other than that, all I see is basic healing with barely managing on mana. I also did not see "Disable" being used on tank busters. You also used swift cast for group heals instead of lightspeed. I commend your party for not making any mistakes and kudos for your SCH for carrying an AST, but this wasn't a convincing video unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Arragomis

The thing about A1s is its not as aoe intensive as people make it out to be. THere are aoes yes. But you dont spam aoe heals, you Hot and wait ands pot heal as needed. The fairy alone has the ability to top off after HOT rolling its not as heal intensive as people complain... They are great heals in capable hands.. but TERRIBLE heals in the hand of players who are used to spamming medica. I will say it again. Astro are a spot heal/focus heal healer.

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I will always agree any job is great when in capable hands, so is the AST. However, the point is not about are they capable to do X or Y things for Z content, the question is how much efforts and ressources (MP, GCD, CD, cards) they need to use in order to be capable of that. And for now they need to work so much more than any of the 2 others healers just to have the same result. I don't see how it is fair, even if it comes down to "it's the AST gameplay, it's a support healer/a spot healer".

Another thing I want to ask you is you said fights like A1s are not aoe intensive so you don't need that much AOE. Well and what will happen if the next fights are ? What if A1s was very intensive in the contrary ? Would you still count on the SCH fairy, would you still top individually ppl ?

Anyway, for me the biggest issue of AST is the range of spells, it's worse than any of his supposed issues for the moment in my opinion. No healing AOE more than 15y, you are NEVER going to hit everyone in fight were ppl are spread. Celestial opposition seriously, it's supposed to be an AOE support spell, why is the range so short then ? And the range of cards I don't even want to talk about it... In A1s for example if you're lucky, you still won't hit the 2 tanks. Okay they are not dps and what ? the cards are supposed to be the main chore of the job and we can't even use it on everyone, that's really sad when you have a good combo and you try your best to position yourself but whatever you'll do it will always be lost in some way. It's always lost already because it's RRed so it's hurting a lot!

Asto is far far from needing help.yeah fix two of our cooldown and let us change stances but our aoe is way stronger then the scholar and range on helios is not a big deal. Raid need to time resin bombs s bit better to give your team an easier time to move around.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Asto is far far from needing help.yeah fix two of our cooldown and let us change stances but our aoe is way stronger then the scholar and range on helios is not a big deal. Raid need to time resin bombs s bit better to give your team an easier time to move around.

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Sch aoe is on par if not greater than AST in nocturnal. Indomniability trumps anything that AST brings in aoe healing. Emergency Tactics Succor is very usable in raids. Whispering Dawn is far better than anything a Nocturnal AST brings. Deployed Adloquium is scarely powerful, and seriously trumps anything that AST brings to the party. Also bare in mind that Fey Illumination used in conjunction with any of the above is greater than anything that AST brings when comparing the 2 classes. So another Vlady misnomer disproved, next one please.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Asto is far far from needing help.yeah fix two of our cooldown and let us change stances but our aoe is way stronger then the scholar and range on helios is not a big deal. Raid need to time resin bombs s bit better to give your team an easier time to move around.

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If you want to give opinions, please doing it well. Your answers bring nothing on this thread. Except to say that AST is almost perfect they are totally useless, especially when it has been proven several times that this is totally false.