Conquest FFXI

I am just bumping this thread to ask again those (especially) who played FFXI back many years ago if they think Conquest could fit into FFXIV? https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Conquest

Personally, I would like SE to consider creating a system similar to this as I think it would make the open world more interesting for those who prefere doing open world content. I haven't thought that much what the rewards could be, but my idea is that it could offer more competetive insentives to solo and small groups. Perhaps the reward for some could be a leaderboard to display the best players/guilds/continents.

What do you think of these other suggestions:
Campaign: https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Campaign
Behest: https://ffxiv.gamepedia.com/Behest

Nice idea. I actually did enjoy Conquest, even though the rewards weren't all that great.

And yes, I think it could fit in well in FFXIV if they expand the world a bit more, or if things go to hell and the beastmen start an all out war.

If you tied this to GC allegiance then you would have people complaining even more so about how unfair it would be. Like the imbalance in PVP queues, only worse.

I think this would work well in FFXIV. The main points I'd think would work well are special vendors in the cities sell different items depending on which areas you have under your control, supply quest (no teleporting allowed) to the Aetheryte while its under your control for a permanent discount (10%?) to all future teleports to that Aetheryte. Conquest points could maybe be made into GC Seals... but the rate at which you acquired them would have to be balanced at the same level as fates and only acquire them when you get exp from mobs... Then the winner could be determined from GC Seals gotten from killing mobs in the area and maybe also from fates.

It would be dead on arrival.

Most players dont need to earn exp, so we're just what, killing these things for Conquest points? Great, like we needed another grind currency.

And what do I get with Conquest Points, a reduced teleport fee by 10%? I dont even think about teleporting fees, most players now have millions of gil, so that is kind of pointless.

Also what purpose is there for these specific vendors? They wouldn't have any gear anyone would want at endgame, so they just sell minions and glam glear? This is just like the hunt billmaster 90% of the time (as SE only ties gearing to hunts at the outset of each patch and release of new currency, then it just devolves into a thing only a few ppl do for minions and glamour).

Lastly it seems this would be open world, so Grand Companies would be competing against each other again. This is already not popular in PVP, so thats another no.

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

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This guy is right. We already semi-have this system in the game already. Only it isn't called what you remember from ffxi. And people treat it like second rate content.

Good thread though.

I doubt that something like this would cause grand company related whining for the simple fact that in FFXI the effects were ridiculously low-impact. Control of a region did bring benefits, but for the most part those benefits were inconsequential:
- Control of a region allowed players to purchase region-specific goods from a vendor in their city. Of course, if you wanted those goods, all you had to do was teleport to the city currently in control; it didn't have to be your city.
- Control of a region allowed a player to unlock teleports to that region. Possibly the only significant prize, and unlocking the teleports closest to the three main cities was both useful and a badge of honor since they were so hard to take over.
- Control of a region eased teleport costs to that region. Teleport costs were already very cheap, though, so this didn't matter much.
- Control of a region eased the cost of setting home point with guards in that area. However, there was rarely a good reason to do so.

Conquest also had an overall weekly ranking system with slightly greater impact, with countries ranked first, second, or third. (Winfirst, Second'oria, and Lastok! :3 ):
- First place won the right to host a carnival that included certain special vendor items. As with the regional vendors above, anyone could go to the winning city and partake.
- Higher rankings meant that vendors in the city would have a greater variety of items. This one was interesting, in that only citizens of that city could purchase the first place items, though anyone could go to a sufficiently high-ranking city to get second and third place items. By and large, though, these items were often obsolete fairly early in the leveling process, so it wasn't that great an advantage.
- Players desiring to change their citizenship had to pay more to transfer from a low-ranked city to a high-ranked city.

To a normal FFXI player, though, Conquest wasn't a huge impact on their lives. There was very little that individuals could do to influence Conquest, and even by doing NOTHING the weighting inherent in the system ensured that every nation got its turn in first, second, or third place, eventually. As such, Conquest was a kind of roulette, particularly for players waiting to access items exclusive to first place. Is Bastok first this week? Nope, well, maybe next week I can buy my Republic Aketon.

It was an interesting idea in concept, meant to provide a sort of competition between players of the different nations without resorting to outright PvP, but in execution individual players had so little power over regional conquest that it might as well have been the weather. Rather than an interesting and competetive game, it wound up being an irritating and unpredictable barrier at worst, and generally meaningless at best.

SE later went on to introduce Campaign in the Wings of the Goddess expansion, which was similar to Conquest, but EVEN MORE reliant on mass participation to get anything done. There were powerful rewards available in cases where the bulk of players for a given faction actually made an effort to push the Beastmen back and occupy their home territories, but it was rare that players were actually willing to do so. The primary motivators for players to participate in Conquest was to earn experience points, and to build up one's rank enough to acquire excellent weapons and armor - both of which could be done far more efficiently when one didn't bother with the stronghold fights at all.

I don't see a similar system in FFXIV being any better. If it's meant to depend on widespread participation to succeed, there will not be enough interest as individuals feel that their participation has no impact. If it happens involuntarily, just by being part of a grand company or whatever, it will give the impression of being random and meaningless. If the prizes available are too good, players will become resentful since obtaining them will seem to be a matter of randomness, not something they can accomplish through their own efforts.

LASTOK ftw!

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Nice idea. I actually did enjoy Conquest, even though the rewards weren't all that great.

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I wouldn't mind if the rewards were not great, but if it was done to add a nice touch I would still welcome that.

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

Most players dont need to earn exp, so we're just what, killing these things for Conquest points? Great, like we needed another grind currency.

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I only have one high level class/job, the rest are below level 20, and what about new players? I agree, I don't think we need another grind currency, but it could offer other benefits? New FATEs that only your GC can participate in for exclusive items?

Going to create (not saying bad or good per say) forums on X faction has yet to be top since they only played for Y amount of time (could be for like 3+ months of not on top aka not using the new fates) and be very mad, I personally would never leave flames (flames for life) but you would also lose that identity if the fates gave minis or something that matter. I think the less useful a system like this is the better the dev already are making story modes to get more people through their raids could not see them limiting who gets to see fates.

*cough*Winfirst*cough*

I loved Consquest back in the day. It was actually a primary pastime of mine to work on getting Windurst to first during the lull between runs.

That said, I forsee something closer to the level of Campaign occurring than Conquest, and seeing it could possibly be involve for a power struggle to take back and maintain points of interest in Ala Mhigo - seeming that's a Garlean occupied state and it would make for a great open field system to be in struggle to take back the City-State and hold it against the Empire.

I enjoyed Conquest. I even managed to get the outposts in the starter areas. Even Gustabrg which was kinda useless. I'd welcome a similar idea if for no other reason than to give more life to the open world.

I liked the idea of Conquest, but it wouldn't work. There are no level parties like there were in FFXI. Maybe if they put better reasons to go out in the world, it would work. Like, in 2.0, the combination of hunts/atma/leveling would have created a pool of people to actually interact with the conquest system.

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Originally Posted by Magis

I liked the idea of Conquest, but it wouldn't work. There are no level parties like there were in FFXI. Maybe if they put better reasons to go out in the world, it would work. Like, in 2.0, the combination of hunts/atma/leveling would have created a pool of people to actually interact with the conquest system.

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They don't have to link it to level parties, they can link it to fates in areas, a certain dungeon you do is in a certain area. Quest that you do in a certain area could all go to your GC points, and when you get GC points you automatically get conquest points.

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Originally Posted by Magis

I liked the idea of Conquest, but it wouldn't work. There are no level parties like there were in FFXI. Maybe if they put better reasons to go out in the world, it would work. Like, in 2.0, the combination of hunts/atma/leveling would have created a pool of people to actually interact with the conquest system.

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Such a system implemented in FFXIV would clearly need to have some other criteria than just killing overworld mobs, like FFXI had. Maybe things like doing Grand Company Leves, or something.

The biggest issue in my mind, though, is that I don't feel like any mass-participation event of this kind would work well. What's the biggest gate to players trying to complete hardcore raids in this game? No, it's not being able to do the content - it's finding seven other players who are ALSO able to do the content. Have you ever felt helpless to progress because you just can't find party members able to progress with you? Now, imagine instead of finding seven other people, you instead need to find seven hundred.

That was the biggest problem with Conquest, in my mind, the feeling that nothing you did would have any significant impact on the results. You could work yourself to the bone, and still see another nation come out on top. Or you could do nothing, and see your own nation come out on top. It all depended on what hundreds of other people (the vast majority of which are total strangers who you never even talk to) are doing - and, by and large, those hundreds aren't even thinking about Conquest at all, just going about their daily routine, and the numbers happened to line up one way or another.

This feature is pretty useless as I still can't buy stuff from other nations, even tho I have their seals as well... And I still can't equip gear from other nations which honestly think it needs to go. It's a dumb limitation that impedes not only low level progression, but also GC is only worth something in PvP and not even that.

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Originally Posted by Magis

I liked the idea of Conquest, but it wouldn't work. There are no level parties like there were in FFXI. Maybe if they put better reasons to go out in the world, it would work. Like, in 2.0, the combination of hunts/atma/leveling would have created a pool of people to actually interact with the conquest system.

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I think it can work, they could make it work. I would like more party options in the open world. Something like behest (not Guildhests) I would like to see again. A battlewarden could appear that only a certain amount of players can participate in, spawn a load of FATEs that only those players can see, and they have to work together to complete it?

The feature I would prefer them to implement into FFXIV from FFXI and I thought they might just be on their way to doing it was Besieged. I thought they would have a separate half of Ishgard where Nidhogg and his dragon swarm could invade and the zerg hoard of Adventurers could fend them off. I'm sure you could mix it up with some variety like Garlean invasions and primal attacks too. It would just be nice to bring back the lag and frustration of the hunt without travelling to the enemies.

My main gripe with FFXIV is the lack of variety. There are a lot of FFXI systems I'd like see translated to FFXIV (Some form of Conquest/Campaign would be neat).

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

LASTOK ftw!

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I was San d'Oria but I remember when we gained conquest in Sarutabaruta or Gustaberg, it was SO awesome to outpost to those places. Unfortunately, FFXIV already has access to teleports everywhere in the game except the Hinterlands so I don't see a reason for this. :s

Never played FFXI.

But I have to say, the dev team seem to have been "fearless". Not clinically, perfectly balanced? Ship it anyway!

Better an imperfectly balanced but interesting game rather than a perfect balanced, boring one.

I apologise that there are now two threads the same. There was a delay when I updated this thread, so I created another. Whoops!

Conquest was pretty interesting. My favorite was Campaign. I think it would work fine in XIV.

The world in XI just seemed more dangerous, therefore more interesting. I also think BST made the world much more interesting. The people who liked the world, or just exploration tend to play BST. Those who just wanted to raid with groups and get the best gear played other jobs (Which is why BST is a perfect limited job candidate).

I feel the big anniversary news is a XI reboot. So instead of implementing more XI elements into XIV, they will just reboot XI imo. They might wanna be really careful though; because the people who played both know which one is the superior or more beloved game. A XI reboot will affect XIV the playerbase.

But a big yes to conquest like elements in XIV.

imo dangerous world = more annoying, not interesting.

In 2020 I think it would be a waste of time and resources. Had it been around 2.0 maybe it would been enjoyed by some.

First we need a better and dangerous open-world, wich we don't have because all enemies are really easy and we're just too powerful :/

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

imo dangerous world = more annoying, not interesting.

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Of course valid opinion, but I'd argue that certain locales were more interesting in that different kinds of play were needed to successfully traverse an area.

I wouldn't have it be nearly as many zones as FFXI did, but some cat-and-mouse/hiding from enemies was fun for infiltrating enemy strongholds.

Either way, the current game is just not well designed to have a "dangerous world" when it's so big/everything is so far away AND so many safe zones (water and air specifically have zero threat)

I loved Conquest if only for the fact that \[T]/ BESTOK \[T]/ was always underestimated everywhere. The feeling of having every outpost warp still keeps me warm at night. It'd be easy enough to implement and tie it to dungeons and regions, base it off EXP gains and kill amounts. We know FFXIV can track both pretty easy. Makes me remember signet, sigil, and sanction too. Imperial Sanction and the Mercenary ranks which are exactly the same ranks as the GC ranks up to Captain let you buy endgame level weaponry on par with that from sky gods or better when Treasures of Aht Urghan was going. Was a real different kind of game, but they could add in another late major patch phase for catch up people. Like the augmented crafted gear, except purchased with your Conquest points, which you could leave stockpiled. Just use reskinned old weapons, slap the right iLvl on'em and presto!

As for a dangerous world... it wasn't just that FFXI had a dangerous world, though that was a big part of it. It used danger as an obstacle. Because most jobs couldn't take on Even Matches alone with some serious gear, this added to the natural zone geography and often times crazy traversal blocks. Like those Mute / Curse statues in Beadeaux or the Lava Spouts in Ifrit's Cauldron. The weighted doors in Quicksand Caves(Galka be praised), the 4 man doors in Garbage Shitadel, or the paintbrush room in Temple of Uggalepih. This coupled with the fact that you had to traverse together with other people, usually in your same party, meant that you had to watch out not just for you, but for others. FFXIV won't ever have that kind of depth, though Eureka kinda hearkened back to it, it really wasn't the same.

don't let the XI nostalgia goggles addle your brain. this is a completely different game remember. quit trying to make it like the past again.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

don't let the XI nostalgia goggles addle your brain. this is a completely different game remember. quit trying to make it like the past again.

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There is no harm asking for something or suggesting. FFXIV is a different game, but times do change and new things get old...with some creativity content can be reworked and adapted to newer trends. I do wonder how many people have grown fatigued of the same type of dungeon/raid content?

The "nostalgia goggles" bot-like answer is off-topic anyway. The general idea of the topic is about more pertinent open-world, which is strongly tied with the reason to build a MMO in the first place. FFXI is just an example among other.

Won't work unless they made open world xp grinding a lot more viable, which they won't do because of how it would impact queues (because they would really need to actually make it good in order to get people to bother)

To put things in perspective, they made "open world" grinding more viable in Eureka, and even then it was still bad enough that most people didn't bother and would rather just keep riding (or mooching off of) the NM train. It wasn't until they added 150% echo and 300% xp buffs to Eureka (which pretty much constitues a nerfing into oblivion) that grinding on trash mobs reached a level of viability that even solo players could level at a reasonable pace without needing to rely on the NM train.

It doesn't have to be an unlimited experience grind like it was in FFXI. Experience doesn't even have to be a reward. Something else?! I am not queueing twice for dungeons anyway, so I won't be affecting queues. I do think SE have tried and tested exp grinding and have not been satisfied, however, hunting logs (ARR) and some battlecraft leves were actually fun to do in groups back in 1.0. FATEs now are okay in small doses, although I think they could be better. The low exp reward limits the reason for doing them anyway.

asking for stuff sure, but you need to look at the history of the game and how the devs have been thinking in the way they make the game. have they ever even thought of making things like this in the open world? no. they want to control these types of things by putting them in instances. do they ever talk about things like open world stuff in live letters or q&a sessions? no they don't. it's because they don't want to do stuff like that. therefore it is no use asking.

ffxiv needs a much dangerous open world, after them storyline, there is little reason to go back to those zones unless your a crafters or a gatherer which is sad. i see ffxiv players sitting in town all day queuing in a window for duty finder, at least in ffxi, your always out there adventuring.

https://i.ibb.co/jGn1VCq/img-20200810-121947.jpg

Conquest really had little impact to players in FFXI. Though I recall on Quetzacoatl when I played that usually San d'Oria and Windurst usually were close to eachother fighting for first place when Bastok's influence being abysmal most of the time and occasions when San d'Oria would abruptly spike territory claim to the point Windurst and Bastok would officially Ally in the conquest system.

The Campaign Battle system however was more interactive from a gameplay perspective. The system was added I think with the Wings of the Goddess expansion which had a theme around time travel to the past when the Beastmen Tribes of the game were united fighting a war against the 3 settlements. Players could help out via inputs in the home cities and I think also via donations and also by actively fighting in the skirmishes when they occur. I don't currently remember all the impacts of winning or losing of hand. I do recall that the enemy and ally units were not all equal. Some were considerably stronger than others and it was also possible for players to temporarily recruit certain NPC's not associated directly with the 3 settlements into battle such as Maat. I recall passing a fair amount of time on these as DRK/SAM endlessly spamming Catastrophe.

I also remember enjoying Besieged which they added with Treasures of Aht Urhgan where players and NPCs defended a major city when it was being invaded by beastmen.