i got it how to fix AST!!!!

i see alot of players complaining about ast healing and lack of cooldown and that we too similar to WHM/SCH,,,,,,, so guess what

why not turn us into pure HOT healer

This make sense because of these reasons
1) give us time to make decisions with cards
2) allow us to dps when needed
3) give us cooldown that is unique
4) give us our own identity without being a copy of WHM/SCH
5) star/card/time magic all fits perfect with this

for example we could have 4 hots 2 powerful cooldown and play the part of a support healer whilst workin our card magic at the same time

With hots u will need only 2 cooldowns
1) rapid healing cooldown
2) Burst healing cooldown that removes hots

THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE WOULD NEED ADJUSTMENTS AND REWORK

to me in this game if we go buy other games
WHM = Priest
SCH = Paladin with pet
AST = Druid/ shaman (with celestial magic)

With this alone we will have a healer that favour DET and spell speed (require trait to effect hots) to increase our healing throughput, this increase our AoE healing and single target healing quite abit not to mention free up space to add additional cooldowns to help with the party, but do i in away that we do not replace scholar or whm to me this what healers r today

WHM = High damage healer /dps
Sch = Mitigation healer / dps
Ast = Sch/Whm copy / dps

with this u can have these set ups

WHM/ AST = Power heals / Hots / Dots
whm can do rawr healing whilst ast is focus on cards making sure hots and dots are up

SCH / AST = Shield / Hots / Dots
sch can shield and mitigate damage and let our hots heal people back up whilst both focus on maintaining dots

Ast / Ast = Hots / Dots
both Ast focus on hots and dots and use cool down to keep group alive

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Originally Posted by Yhisa

WHM = Priest
SCH = Paladin with pet
AST = Druid/ shaman (with celestial magic)

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This doesn't seem very accurate. SCH isn't the equivalent of paladin from WoW. If anything its a Disc Priest. It's not really fair to compare the healing styles from WoW and FFXIV because both are very different.

Also AST is already hot heavy in dirunal stance. There are some broken skills (aka anything in nocturnal stance) that need addressing but I don't think your post really addresses those (or doesn't really bring anything new and exciting that hasn't be rehashed 100x times on the other thread).

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Originally Posted by Yhisa

WHM = Priest
SCH = Paladin with pet
AST = Druid/ shaman (with celestial magic)

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No. If anything, Scholar would be a Disc priest as mentioned above. WHM is more similar to a Shaman tbqh (though Holy Priest works too).
All semantics though- on the topic of your idea, it sucks.
That would mean a complete and total overhaul of Astro and that would take a lot of development time. They don't NEED an overhaul, they are fairly capable already- there ARE people clearing the savage content using an AST so we know they are capable there. If ANYTHING they just need a few tiny tweaks, particularly in the Nocturnal Sect, and they will be more than viable.

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Originally Posted by Alexia89

...That would mean a complete and total overhaul of Astro and that would take a lot of development time.

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Pretty much this. They can "fix" it without redesigning all the spells, plus it would take way too long. 24 man raid is also around the corner so they certainly don't have much time, especially since esoteric gear is bound to specific classes. The sooner they apply the tweaks, the better.

If you play WHM correctly you're already a pretty HoT oriented healer. Regen is your absolute bread & butter spell, more-so than even basic Cure. Then you have Medica II. And finally, there's also Asylum.

Sure, we're not like a Druid in WoW (which is/was primarily a HoT based healing class, at least last time I've played), but a very large part of our standard healing is already done over time.

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Originally Posted by Alexia89

a Shaman tbqh (though Holy Priest works too).

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WHM is more Holy Priest cause of the raw healing power both have, and also powerful holy spells.

AST is more like Shaman cause unlike the other two cause they can buff others, like Shamans can with their totems.

And SCH is like Disc. Priest cause they both are barrier healers with smart healing. What's smart healing? It's automatic heals. The smart in the phrase is that it prioritizes whomever was the most injured, and in the fairies, case they do this too, even if it's themselves. It's just that both has different methods for smart healing, where the Disc. Priest have to attack with holy magic to smart heal, the Scholar has a fairy.



Anyways to the OP. No that HoT healing thing is a terrible idea, and you don't need to think EXTRA hard on when to use a card. They are the supporter healer. They cover which ever healer isn't there when dual healing, and have the cards to buff everyone to greater offensive extents than Selene ever could, while providing excellent support with the other cards. I am getting sick of seeing ASTs blaming anything but their inability to even decently manage their MP. I'll be lucky if I see someone other than myself make it out of a fight above 66% with everyone topped off and well.

To be a pure hot healer, like a druid in WoW, you need ALOOOOT of hots to stack. ALOT.

As memory serves....you could have all of these ticking on the tank/group at the same time with some work- two rejuvs if talented, efflo, lifebloom, regrowth, wild growth, genesis, cenarion ward if talented, tranquility. And instant/near instant casts for most of those abilities, plus at least one instant single target burst heal. And a tank cd that reduced damage taken and increase hots received. We.....will probably never see that in this game. (druid was my fave healer in WoW too....)

Though shaman may not be far off..... the defining shaman heal in chain heal isn't around (though I think a constellation heal would have been very cool for ast) but Diurnal ast has riptide in aspect benefic and ast/whm have healing rain in asylum/kinda CU. I kind of equivocate the sch's fairy to sham totems. Synastry is paladin's beacon of light (but doesn't transfer secondary effects....like paladin mastery shields) The whm is very holy-priest with big heals and some hots (asylum=sanctuary, medica2 is poh w/mastery, regen=renew). I wouldn't go so far as to say sch is like disc though since disc had a lot of shields with no healing component attached, really is a bit more akin to paladin to me with smaller constant shields+heals.

I guess my point was that the healers in this game are more like bits and pieces from different wow healers, like sch kind of being a combo shaman/paladin/disc priest. Some other WoW style things, like disc/monk healing by doing damage or a shaman's chain heal, may make it into the game one day. I don't think it will be in changing ast though, probably a brand new class somewhere down the line. The heal-by-damage may be a good idea for a red mage or a dancer.

I would personally change 3 things about AST, based on what I've been hearing and what some AST friends of mine have been describing.

1) Swap the 5% bonuses from Nocturnal and Diurnal Sect so that Nocturnal is 5% faster and Diurnal is 5% stronger.

2) Change Nocturnal so that the Aspected spells each apply a Healing Received buff, around 5-7% each, and allow the two to stack together.

3) Allow stancedancing between Diurnal and Nocturnal.

This would make AST be more of a support-focused healer, chaining their heal buffs with their regens to allow for the pair of healers to have even more DPS'ing time, and would further differentiate AST from the other two healers. Ideally this would make WHM/AST as powerful as WHM/SCH, along with SCH/AST, making it so that all the healer combos are about equal, while still being different from each other.

the 5-7% buff for each tank would in essence make the astro a required healer for certain encounters. Would not really make the cut. Turning one of our cooldowns into a buff that lets us stance dance temporarily in combat would fix all issues but ben 2 buff and shuffle pulling same card twice. Other then that we are practically on par with white mage for healing and stance dancing noc would allow us for emergency healing from a instant cast 500 potency heal+shield.

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Originally Posted by Leidiriv

I would personally change 3 things about AST, based on what I've been hearing and what some AST friends of mine have been describing.

1) Swap the 5% bonuses from Nocturnal and Diurnal Sect so that Nocturnal is 5% faster and Diurnal is 5% stronger.

2) Change Nocturnal so that the Aspected spells each apply a Healing Received buff, around 5-7% each, and allow the two to stack together.

3) Allow stancedancing between Diurnal and Nocturnal.

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1) that would break Noctural. Your Main barrier is already instant cast, and more efficient than stoneskin. Barriers need power not speed. And while in cleric, your barriers are made even more useless.

2) That would be OP.

3) What's the point? Your things do not stack, so stance dancing will screw healers along with the AST themselves. Also, TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

Small temporary fix for Nocturnal Sect IMO :

1. Change Time dilation in nocturnal sect to Enhanced buff instead of Extend buff that we have now(but let it be the same under Diurnal). Of course, this effect will work also with our shield from Aspected Skill(so a 2000 damage barrier applied to the party member become 3000 damage barrier after Time Dilation is applied to said party member)
2. Change Celestial Opposition in nocturnal sect to have same effect to Time Dilation above, albeit in reduced potency increase(maybe around 15%, 25% or 50% increase just like current Celestial Opposition is 33% of current Time Dilation, 5s increase to 15s increase) to party.

Just these 2 change will give us comparable(more reliable, but weaker) shield than SCH. Of course, SCH can still bring a lot more utility to the team(more Single target DPS, fairy regen, the slightly OP Indomitability, 3 Lustrates in a row, incomparable MP management, etc), but a Nocturnal Sect AST will become viable instead of their useless condition currently.

What is with people trying to Change a job because it doesn't play the way they like it.astro is perfect to me and I hope se dorsnt change it minis letting us some how stance dance

i haven't got my AST to 50 yet but i can already tell its pretty weak at healing compaired to the other 2. personaly i think one of the things (,not the only) that would make this better is if they could switch stances in fights. From my experiances, SCHs are better when the groups near full health and can keep them there while WHMs do a better job of recovering the group when they take quite a bit of damage, if the AST could switch in combat it would be saying to the others " ok, im not quite as good as you in your part.. BUT i can be the one needed for the moment". I'm ok with it being a jack of all trades kinda class which should be a little weaker but it can't be a jack of all trades if you can only go into fights with 1 stance. It seems atm that if your only going to pretent to be a weaker version of one of the other healers the whole dungeon, then why not just go as that class instead?

Let the astrologian swap stances in combat via cooldown and somehow let T he shields play nice with scholar shields. That way they can play the way they was designed. Just do not let astros stack in the same stance.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Let the astrologian swap stances in combat via cooldown and somehow let T he shields play nice with scholar shields. That way they can play the way they was designed. Just do not let astros stack in the same stance.

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If Astro shields stacked with SCH shields you'd have parties double stacking shields, on top of Collective Unconscience, Sacred Soil, and Bole mitigation to practically ignore mechanics. I don't see SE doing this.

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Originally Posted by SirShuffles

If Astro shields stacked with SCH shields you'd have parties double stacking shields, on top of Collective Unconscience, Sacred Soil, and Bole mitigation to practically ignore mechanics. I don't see SE doing this.

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So what you're implying is there would be a reason to take one over a White Mage instead of no reason at all.
Just playing Devil's Advocate here. :P

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Originally Posted by Reivur

So what you're implying is there would be a reason to take one over a White Mage instead of no reason at all.
Just playing Devil's Advocate here. :P

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You don't make a job more desirable by invalidating another. The goal should be the ability to take WHM/AST or SCH/AST without feeling like you should have gone WHM/SCH.

HoT healers either have to have a LOT of heals rolling (mana intensive) or have the HoT ticks be OP to deal with heavy damage.

Noct Sect:
Let the shields stack with SCH but nerf the potency some if the player already has the galvanize effect. Cut shield potency for AST in half if the SCH already tossed out an adlo or succor. Same applies for SCH if AST has shield up first. Under Noct the Aspected benefic should get a crit modifier but again just nerf the potency instead of a crit giving you double the shield it gives you 1.5x. These number are just some examples. I'm sure they'd have to play around with the potency reductions to keep it balanced.

Diurnal sect: AST regens should stack with each other. WHM x2 can stack medica 2s and regens so why can’t ASTS?

Base job changes: Reworking the benefic trait would do wonders. I liked an idea I read on the forum somewhere about changing it to a percentage chance to reset Essential Dignity. The trait change could allow more use of Essential Dignity giving them more access to the primary burst heal of AST while maintaining the RNG style theme of the job.

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Originally Posted by HeavensSword

You don't make a job more desirable by invalidating another. The goal should be the ability to take WHM/AST or SCH/AST without feeling like you should have gone WHM/SCH.

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I'm actually curious how you find the rolling AoE that lasts significantly longer than a pre-built shield stack "invalidation". Shield Buffering brings value in two ways; sneaking past vitality checks by buffering people's max hp beyond a raid or tank buster, and... Well actually that's pretty much it. Scholar has pretty great mana generation/tools to work with themselves. Ast's was improved, but bottom line on this has always been that beyond shields not synergizing with Time Dilation or Celestial Opposition you run into the problem where shield buffering is significantly less efficient than Diurnal's regen by a mile-- even factoring in that you get 5% more healing potency in Nocturnal.

Are you going to claim that shredding having a healer who tries to double up on shields is going to somehow magically be efficient in raids with costs the way they are? Sure, there's an obligatory Bard or Machinist somewhere to help patch up the mp, but that's just hurting your raid's damage output (Another current complaint about the healers as well, by the way) to substitute for its sustainability. And even then anything that pulses damage regularly will be a bigger strain. And anytime a fight is spread out? Medica II's range and HoT is a godsend. And don't forget you outright lose the Mind buff in this combination. There are legitimate trade-offs here, not invalidation. By the logic presented here apparently Whm/Ast can't work because they're invalidated by Scholars-- because I'm not seeing the few Asts who do this content in Nocturnal as it is.

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Originally Posted by Reivur

-snip-

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You are assuming things and placing words in my mouth.

Your comment that was replying to Shuffles comment:

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Originally Posted by SirShuffles

If Astro shields stacked with SCH shields you'd have parties double stacking shields, on top of Collective Unconscience, Sacred Soil, and Bole mitigation to practically ignore mechanics. I don't see SE doing this.

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He basically makes the claim that AST/SCH with stacking shields would be too strong and "practically ignore mechanics".

You reply with basically "lol well at least it would be a reason to take it over WHM" and don't even bother with refuting why he may be misguided.

I probably assumed too much of you as well, but my reply was mainly against the idea of "well as long as my class gets picked".

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Originally Posted by HeavensSword

You are assuming things and placing words in my mouth.

Your comment that was replying to Shuffles comment:

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Quite true. But given the current parameters there's absolutely no frickin' way there would be a mass exodus of White Mages from such a change unless a series of fights emerged specifically designed around infrequent, massive timed spikes. Currently most of Savage is shaping out to be persistent periodic damage with semi-frequent tank busters that requires a lot of periodic healing in-between. There would be an advantage, and a disadvantage versus "No advantages at all". All I'm saying.

Even so... you really don't see how saying invalidating the other class was hyperbole to an extreme? I suppose I didn't outline the pros and cons of each composition, but since he listed the pros you'd think he'd give an ounce of credence to the cons given that there's about 5 top threads here listing as many cons as they can possibly manage to muster about the class, be they real or imagined.