As it currently is to craft two star items you need favor mats from both botanist and miner. Ten of each at that for just the normal quality ones. You get Five favor per Fifty scrips and the nodes aren't even guaranteed in the 15 min buff. You get to run around like mad depleting nodes hoping one spawns so you can do it all over again to hope for another (I think the lowest amount I heard of in my FC was THREE nodes in 15min). And on top of all of this most recipes require more than just five silk/whatever so you need even more gathered mats from botanist and miner. The amount of scrips required to craft any final product is insane. And it requires a metric ton of mats on the gathering end. Which would probably require more than one person to happily give their mats to the greater good. If you honestly think people are going to hand over scrip mats so easily you're living in a fantasy land I'd love to be in.
Honestly the only way the red scrips will work if people adopted some type of communism, but that only looks good on paper.
Let's be real, people are and can be greedy and selfish. All this created is a golden opportunity for people to make a ton of gil, which doesn't actually help other than making the mats 'available' if you can afford it.
Red scrips don't promote cooperation.
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07-24-2015, 11:24 AMPotatoGirlRed scrips don't promote cooperation.
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07-24-2015, 12:29 PMWobble
Not even messing with red scrips myself. They really made a garbage system there.
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07-24-2015, 12:33 PMAirget
That's economics though, you are complaining about supply and demand, if the demand is high but the supply is low then it sells for more, if it's the opposite it sells for less that's just how it works.
The Red scirp concept forces you to choose which one you want to play. Are you going to be the horder and just use it all for yourself, are you going to be the support that provides the materials people can buy for the 3rd group which are those who will go all out and buy all they can to maximize their ability to gear up to the max as fast as possible. -
07-24-2015, 12:39 PMsilentwindfr
exept from the start the material are hard to gather and get in number for get what you want, make this hard was idiot. instead to limited the rmt they encourage it.... some stuff will be sold for about 2-10M... because it's too low in supply for the demand.
the craft have gone totally into the hardcore now and it's sad. since hardcore are max 10% of the population! a new player see this and will not even bother do this...
on ragnarok the price for some basic component that are commons flirt with the 10k gils unit, some rare can reach 100-200k.... and it's an overpopulated server, meaning more supply than low population server. instead to give player stuff to do they gate content. that idiot and need to be rethink!
i feel this excuse is a bit too much used when is about craft and the shortcoming it did meet in HW. worst, is not even right, since a healthy economy will have a flow of good. the trouble is actually the material and item flow are too low for be healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airget
a good example is the chimera mane, you do have 5-6 monster for a whole server for gather this item, you need 5 item for the basic craft, sadly it drop at best per 3 (when it drop). indeed we can use the retainer, but there we fall into pay to win, since if you want to get more you will need to pay irl cash for more retainer. but i digress... the number of chimera mana earn per player by kill is kinda fixed since the number of monster is low. (remember a bit the trouble we had with the sheep in coerthas)
low supply, means by nature low flow... them goal, like it was said countless time, was to give a goal to crafter, vanity item is nice, furniture was not bad.... but both are not repeatable. when everybody have get the item you don't sell them anymore. them whole error is thinking gating the supply will allows crafter to have goal... is a band aid. what they need to do it's to give a true repeatable goal that make the crafter feel part of the world. the hamlet was partially doing this... maybe, add some glamour item that can only be obtain throught a similar stuff can be added.
i means imagine if each hamlet have some need per day, if you do it, you get a sort of mark that allows you to purchase a glamour item only obtainable via this manner?
is not really different of the collectable stuff, but there it will be a normal crafting, forcing player to recraft stuff over and over, it will be repeatable and offer something to do on the long terms. they can even add glamour per area that can be obtain only if you level up your fame for the hamlet of this area? i dunno, anyway them goal is not to gate content, but offer replayability and goal! gated content and loot are not goal! -
07-24-2015, 12:52 PMscarebearzIf the supply is that low and the effort/cost required is very high, then despite the demand, nobody will buy it as the gear is simply not good enough to jusfity the prices the crafters would need to sell them for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airget
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07-24-2015, 01:35 PMNatashio
Though I have yet to open up 60+ crafting, but by looking in the market board...is there anything worth crafting anyways... Highest level item is 180. Isn't that Laws equipment upgraded and everything else from raids and esoterics is 190+. So I kind of question..is it even worth it anymore to break my head in crafting which I loved to do in 2.0 to what amounts to just vanity gear..
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07-24-2015, 01:40 PMreillyblair
just wait for the gathering bots to start on them lol
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07-24-2015, 01:42 PMNatashio
Don't make me laugh..I'm drinking right now..
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07-24-2015, 01:59 PMYeldirThat's going to be quite the wait, seeing as they're going to need AI's capable of navigating the main storyline, all of the dungeons in it, touching all the aetherwinds, and so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by reillyblair
I don't want to say it can't be done, but I don't see how it can. -
07-24-2015, 03:10 PMruskiePeople have been reporting bots doing MSQ stuff before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeldir
Seen plenty of bots doing dungeons as have my FC mates.Quote:
all of the dungeons in it
Because? They've been porting around the nodes so far. What's to stop them doing so now?Quote:
touching all the aetherwinds
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07-24-2015, 03:34 PMmbncdPlenty of real players (as in players who have followed the story and unlocked flight in the various zones, etc) bot too, like when they're asleep, at work, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeldir
It puts their accounts at risk, sure, but there'll always be people who think they'll never be caught and considering how long some bots have been running they may be right in that, who knows. Personally, even if I wasn't paranoid about losing my account, I'd never bot for the simple fact that if you flood the market with whatever you've just been auto-gathering for the last 12 hours you'll just be undercutting yourself and never sell the stuff.
I don't really get what they're thinking... Shortcuts are only good if they get you somewhere. Losing your account or filling your retainers with 20 stacks of something you just made into garbage value isn't exactly getting somewhere... -
07-24-2015, 04:37 PMYukiko
It feels like you have to use a Bot to be able to play...
With each patch SE increased the urge to need a Bot...
Current system is just inhuman!
When did you lose fun in crafting?
Well, SE is proud of their lockout system and weather/time brickwalls, not much we can change there! -
07-24-2015, 05:50 PMGramulThe only economics play going on here is forced inflation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airget
I understand the idea is to make crafters more reliant on each other, but all it's doing is creating scarcity in materials and base products. That will in turn raise the price of those items, which means players will have to make more money (charging yet more for their own materials) until each individual gil gets less and less valuable. The scarcity of such materials is also detrimental to the flow of money in general, which creates a very unhealthy economy.
Fewer transactions at higher prices. That's just begging for a stagnant market where the barrier for entry just gets higher and higher. You actually start to run the risk of forming class division. -
07-24-2015, 05:59 PMSapphic
Yes, it is pretty insane and this is only 3.0, how is it going to go with 3.1 etc? Will recipes require full scrip crafted pentamelded gear to even attempt some recipe that is no more than glamor?
My solution.
Leave the gear and the tools requiring red scrips. Increase cost of scrips for the materials presently red scrip and change them to blue scrip. While just leaving certain materials as red scrip purchases, maybe 1 item that is needed to craft the blue tools.
Maybe we need to start asking for a normal mode for crafting, just like they added a normal mode for Alex :P
When we had instance 1 and 2 it doubled the amount of mobs available.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentwindfr
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07-24-2015, 06:27 PMLewtz
ya bots run rampant in this game i see teleporters all the time.. but what to u expect when ownedcore still has free bots running and they haven't fixed stuff on there end to stop it since release.
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07-24-2015, 09:10 PMsilentwindfrit was only a special situation for avoid trouble with the server... but i digress, even if they did double the number of monster for a whole server, take ragnarok by example, we have wait line almost all the time, it give you the number of people on the server, even if only 10% was doing this.... it will be worst than the hunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphic
the point it's they need to stop to gate content or reduce the drop rate, that not a solution, is dumb... it only do one thing.... encourage botting and RMT!!! worst it's lead to pay to win content with the retainer. it's a dangerous situation they need to look into now.
what player need is not gated content, but replayability.... until they understand this the game will face this trouble. -
07-24-2015, 09:28 PMBishop81I will let SE be the judge of that since they have total knowledge on the state of the in-game economy.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentwindfr
If they think resources are too scarce, they will buff them.
You also have to note, many players are still levelling, ergo, the number of "qualified" producers of goods is limited but will increase over time. -
07-24-2015, 10:44 PMAsahinaMyLove
That Crafter/Gather Classes tome system is something I can totaly ignore o_O
Waaaaaaaay to much effort for un-shareable gears. -
07-24-2015, 10:57 PMAsteriaStarfall
Honestly after looking at the gear added, the mats required, and how you use the red scrips to get said items, i see not point in doing them. Nothing of glamour value, and the only craft-able worthy gear is the profession gear, which why would you need since nothing else requires it?
Maybe i am totally missing something, but if you save your law and eso, there is nothing that you can craft that is even on par with those items. To me professions should be able to get you a gear piece or two worth of raid gear (not as a means to fully gear) but by the time you have gathered all the mats required, you could have spam dungeons and got a full set of gear through law. I see no point at all in the red scrips. -
07-24-2015, 11:44 PMNaunetThis is also a driver of gil selling/buying. I really don't get why SE doesn't see this. They make everything in this game so dang expensive and then they wonder why they have such a disproportionately huge gil seller problem compared to other MMOs...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramul