Had enough. Its bad enough we've had to deal with the positioning issue (too far, low damage, too close, get prostate-massaged for free) Worse still when Blast Shot became Blast-run-up-and-touch-even-though-i'm-on-a-ranged-job. But this latest business of fugging with Barrage/forcing us to utilize Wanderer's Minuet (or Grass-Guass? Barrel for mch) is just the end of the rope. Its like..w/o using it..you're just a lvl 50 job in a 60cap match. And yet...
Any half decent brd could tell ya what RS > HE > B4B > Barrage (and an x-potion) USED to do. Hell..I wouldnt even have issue with smn's godstomping power as it stands now because it'd at least be a decent exchange. But now forced to stay stationary once popping WM/GB...let alone the fact that it CAN'T be immediately turned off right after cast in a duel where repositioning's needed? The job's doomed in FL even now unless its just plain ignored. God help any idiot who decides to bring it to Wolve's Den in the future. Just saying.
R.I.P. brd
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07-23-2015, 04:48 PMVaeriaR.I.P. brd
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07-23-2015, 04:59 PMnickx
You can still do great damage in Frontline, even without Wanderer's Minuet. Here's an example from last night:
http://i.imgur.com/mVo5HnR.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/mVo5HnR.jpg?1
I will rarely use Wanderer's Minuet since it cannot be turned off for 15 seconds afterwards. I also find myself running either towards or away from enemies constantly, so having it on can put you in tricky situations trying to do damage while moving constantly.
As for Wolves' Den, it's hard to say how they'll do right now, although Warden's Paean might be really amazing there if left unchanged. -
07-23-2015, 05:17 PMHamayumi
I wouldn't get caught with WM in frontlines. You have to be mobile in a PvP setting. As a turret you're a sitting duck for deathflares, fell cleaves, LBs, or someone just plainly running through you to interrupt your cast. Even worse if you get caught with it and have that 15 second window to wait until you can turn it off. You can die twice in 15 seconds.
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07-23-2015, 06:14 PMVaeria
Beautiful numbers Nickx but I can't help but notice a few things. 1. Everyone (at least listed in shot) on adders has high numbers. 2. You died 0 times, which seems to suggest you were ignored, or just had great backup. 3. The 2 smns in shot seem subpar (been seeing 300k/15 kill+ smns alot as of late farely consistantly.)
I'm not at all saying brd CAN'T do damage (went 13/1 in a 24 man myself so I know it retains some decent output.) But as I did say, during duels (all the moreso as will be the case in Wolves Den) when brd will be under HEAVY pressure, the way things are now..its going to crack as it won't be able to utilize its heaviest damage options. (Hamayumi said it all well enough) -
07-23-2015, 06:25 PMVaeria
Just as an example..say by brd's current setup..a drg was on your tail who knew EXACTLY what it was doing..full cds and all. With the old burst/distancing, you might've had a decent shot. But with the way barrage works now, removing Empyreal Shot, taking out WM altogether, seriously..what damage options are you left with? Yeah, I know its all situational but these flaws are gonna factor in more and more sooner or later ;/
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07-23-2015, 06:55 PMnickx
You're right, that damage was a perfect game with a healer friend. These are some examples with deaths and very little healing received: http://i.imgur.com/Zbs0mxD.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/u6wUIeJ.jpg?1. In theory, Summoners should always be top damage, and they are sometimes.
I promise you that we can excel in FL, it's all about awareness and always standing at the right distance from the enemy for maximum damage. In duel situations against a good DRG, you'll certainly need to save cooldowns and sprint kite them as best as possible. Yeah, you won't do max damage, and you'll still lose at times, but it's winnable.
For Wolves' Den, if you have a DRG/Tank/SMN on you full time, I agree, you're likely dead or won't do as much damage. In these cases, you are going to need coordination from your team to CC/Slow them so the enemies are managed and you can kite with ease. The nice thing however, is that Warden's Paean will act like a second Purify in there, so you won't be slowed/slept as often. -
07-24-2015, 05:55 AMRiceisNice
Bard's burst damage is pretty scary, enough to bring down a unsuspecting player through boosted sidewinder, straighter shot, farshot and bloodletter while under the effects of WM. The problem with that is that yo ustill need to maintain that sweetspot range, and otherwise you won't really get much of a damage boost out of WM unless its exclusively for instant casts. Same for MCH too with reassembled cleaner shot and BTE.
What I'm really nettled about is just how unusable ranged LB is due to the amount of incline/decline on seal rock. You'll never hit anything that's on a different elevation (even by a ilm) so it's not even good for those bottle neck nodes like the center one or A4. -
07-24-2015, 06:27 AMStormrider
If bard is even with mch? I have seen them pop 7k attacks followed up by close to 2k attacks. Bard is a watch burst or kill steal job.
I swear 90% of bards are less then intelligent. You ain't soloing anything if that is your issue. Unless the other player is bad. I swear I used to get once a game a bard that though they were going to solo a sch at 50%. You know who wins with out cleric stance? Not the damn bard.
So the complaint about bard is weak. It is a playstyle choice in a game that is designed around TEAM play not solo play. Yet a large percentage of bards think they can solo. -
07-24-2015, 06:39 AMMaxipep
I play Bard and I am insulted by your comment that 90% of Bards are less than intelligent, oh wait you didn't type that did you ? you typed "less then intelligent", followed by the completely incoherent sentence "I swear I used to get once a game a bard that though they were going to solo a sch at 50%.". What does any of that even mean ?
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07-24-2015, 06:46 AMRiceisNiceI think the general idea was that in most circumstances, WM and GB are practically useless in a PvP setting outside of setting up a burst, more so on bard because they don't get the luxury of having instant casts on demand like MCH does. Farshot has a traited cooldown 90s, that's a longass time before your next setup for burst. It effectively leaves most of their post-50 skills pretty moot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormrider
Remember we're talking about classes that have a damage penalty if they're attacking too far or too close. That's still factored if you're using WM and GB from what I've experienced -
07-24-2015, 07:55 AMIllmaeran
I'm new to Final Fantasy PVP and have chosen to play with my BRD. Maybe I'm crazy, but I do enjoy it so far. Would someone please explain the "sweet spot" to me? How can we be too close or too far if a target's in range of attack? Thanks!
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07-24-2015, 04:45 PMJuen
Back in slaughter frontlines, I thought BRDs were pretty good except their LB. Getting a battle fever would have been pretty easy especially with their potential to burst down someone from so far. With HW out and 52-60 skills, I feel that a BRDs burst is even higher now, the exception is that NIN who has always been burst/assassination and now SMN also outburst BRDs. Being truthful, it is quite hard to 1v1 anyone and kill them as BRDs, but when it comes to kill stealing, and sniping away people at 3/4 hp, BRDs are GREAT at that ONCE they have their CDs up for the KO potential.
As for the sweet spot, its at repel range. Repel has same leap back distance that melees should not be able to hit you with their weapon skills unless its the throwing ones, and if a enemy uses their gap closing ability, you can just leap back or blast shot them away and then use "feint" a cross-class skill which slows enemies to kite. Only use WM if you feel that you have a high chance to burst down someone -
07-24-2015, 06:27 PMVandrilIn regards to PvP: "Damage dealt by bows will vary depending on distance from the target."Quote:
Originally Posted by Illmaeran
Source: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...7af43f3c43828a
More specific information can be found here. -
07-24-2015, 07:36 PMAxelDH
For the sake of balance, I think this 'ranged damage' modifier should be removed while in minuet (i.e. you should do 100% regardless of how near/far your target is). Otherwise, its very impractical to use.
While we're on this topic... I presume machinists get the same penalty as Bards at the moment? Not really heard anything about it... -
07-25-2015, 01:52 AMVandrilGood question...Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelDH
I'd imagine so, but... -
07-25-2015, 02:09 AMYumi_umi
72 man FL is a joke lol its just a mosh pit of ppl spamming attacks on anyone who gets near.
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07-25-2015, 12:23 PMStrejdaTom
ATM I am playing BRD in PvP like I did in 2.0 + Sidewinder and I have no problem getting 10+ kills and 160K+ damage. (72 man)
Together with the new limitbreak I think BRD is the same or even better than it was in 2.0. -
07-26-2015, 02:02 AMRiceisNiceWe do. I had a BtE hit for around 500 when it normally hits for 2k.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandril
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07-26-2015, 03:31 AMHamayumiThis is exactly how I play as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by StrejdaTom
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07-26-2015, 07:14 AMAiden_Volkov
they must nerf healers totally at least they onlu can heal themseves 50% less than now more kills more fun, in concret astrologian and give the stuns more effective as i see healers are for heal and they must have less defense very very less defense and life, Tanks less damage and ecual or more defense and DPS medium defense and more fisical power
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07-26-2015, 08:42 AMThe_Last_Dragoon2.X pre-WM Bard damage hasn't really changed (it's technically gotten stronger), and they recently turned WM into an instant cast, allowing you to pop it on and off in battle pretty easily. The main thing to realize is that if you're being targeted as a Bard, then you don't use WM, if you're not, then you could potentially turn it on to get off a Barrage'd Empyreal Arrow and then doff WM immediately. The problem you're running into is that a lot of classes got new tools, and you can't play cat and mouse with certain classes like you could before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaeria
BTW, you can get past the 1000 character limit by using "edit post" -
07-26-2015, 09:00 AMRiceisNiceIt's that WM makes you stationary, you lose the ability to not only kite (which is not as big of a deal because you can turn it off), but more importantly to adjust your distance relative to your target. No one is ever gonna stand still if they're getting pelted by a MCH or BRD, not even a blackmage. On the other hand, WM is also a damage boost to every other skill, even instant cast ones like farshot, bloodletter and sidewinder.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon
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07-26-2015, 11:40 AMGamer3427
From a MCH standpoint: After participating in FL for the first time finally, and after a single match, I can tell that having GB on just isn't the thing to do. I could barely get a hit in with it due to the movement required in the matches. The only time I can really find a use for it is when an opponent is isolated and I can hit them with Ricochet and Gauss Round. The rest of the time, I leave it off and focus on movement. I'm not complaining, because FL is supposed to be different than PvE content, and that's exactly what it's doing, since in level 60 content I rarely find myself in a situation where I need to have GB off. I'm enjoying the change of pace, (and the generally nicer community), found in FL so far......
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07-26-2015, 12:58 PMPotatoesQuote:
Originally Posted by Gamer3427
The only times you should have be using GB is when Rapid Fire is ready. With a fully loaded gun, use 1 2 1 3 2 3 to maximize rapid fire and procs so you won't be standing still at any time. when you're out of ammo, blow your gauss shot and ricochet then take off the barrel til you're set up again to burst. -
07-28-2015, 05:23 PMVaeria
Potatoes beat me to it but ya. And its for this reason i'm .0001% away from switching to McH fulltime. The way things are now, theirs is just the better 'moving target' burst (especially with the penalty evasion of GB) 4k BtEs and imo above all things...heavy.
The annoying thing is that brd's problem is soo simple to fix: Drop the 15sec shutoff and make it like Fists of Fire's or Wasp Sting's. Switch on > reunite someone with their dead grannie > switch off > move on. Hell..doing it this way would even allow for Empyreal Arrow spamming. But eh..... -
07-28-2015, 05:39 PMPotatoes
considering how incredibly potent and sudden bard's full burst is, I think the 15 second penalty is fair. I've taken people from 100% to dead in one burst.