EVE Online and a number of other MMOs have "legalized" goldselling in the form of "Plexx", "Credd" or another similar item.
It works like this:
1. A player buys a month of game time in the form of an item from the FFXIV online store.
2. They can then sell this item on the Market Board in game. Other players buy it with in-game gil: NO NEW GIL IS BEING "CREATED" HERE!!!
3. Since this costs SE absolutely nothing, it allows them to "legally" sell gil, thus making RMT sites unappealing by comparison because there's no risk of being banned by buying game time from SE.
Seriously, I spend most of my time on /busy to avoid the constant RMT whispers. This would put a big nail in the RMT coffin and make SE more money to boot...
Why no "Plexx" system?
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07-20-2015, 02:33 AMRichardButteWhy no "Plexx" system?
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07-20-2015, 04:54 AMCulfinrandir
This would be classed by many as Pay to Win. It could also cause legal issues under various laws (I mainly know EU & UK legislation).
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07-20-2015, 06:32 AMRichardButtePeople who want to pay to win are going to pay to win either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Culfinrandir
It's much better if they do it through SE and we'd see a reduced RMT presence because it'll gut the market for RMT. -
07-20-2015, 06:37 AMBlaiseArathI kinda disagree? Yah, there are people who are going to pay-to-win either way, but sanctioning it will bring more people to "Pay to win". I'd like to say I know I'm an example of this. Guild Wars 2 offers a way to exchange their gem currency for in game currency, and while I've never participated in RMT, in a game like GW2 I do sometimes trade Gems for Gold in order to quicker level a craft. So the fact its sanctioned has convinced me to do it (mostly knowing I'm supporting the game).Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardButte
THAT SAID, I think the problem itself would be SE can create gil from nothingness, it could drastically effect the economy. They could introduce a Buy/Sell system like GW2 but then they would need a special currency in game to trade with... idk. I don't think this is a great idea, it might help reduce the presence or RMT but It would impact the game pretty heavily if it was just a straight "Buy gil?" option. -
07-20-2015, 07:22 AMRichardButteThere's no actual gil being created, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaiseArath
You're taking an item you bought with real money and selling it to other players who buy it with their in game gil.
Also, I've not looked hugely into this, but how much of an advantage can you really buy with gil in raiding and whatnot? Is materia melded gear from crafting the best for raids? -
07-20-2015, 07:36 AMDererkQuote:
Originally Posted by RichardButte
Nope nope nope nope.
There was already a 60 page thread about this and most wer against it.
The way I see it most who would actually want this just want a way to make fast Gil. -
07-20-2015, 09:38 AMRichardButteThat's EXACTLY the point: people with less time but more money OUTSIDE the game would be selling game sub time to people who have more time INSIDE the game but less money outside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dererk
No new gil is brought into existence, and it makes it so RMT gil is by far the worse option because you cannot get banned for selling SE's game time.
Meanwhile, it wrecks the RMT gil market because they have to sell their gil for SO much cheaper to justify buying it over SE's alternative, thus leading to VASTLY less RMT presence in game, including town spammers and random whispers.
It's worked great in other MMOs and it's a win-win situation for everyone except RMT companies.
Clearly, SOMEONE is buying gil from RMTers right now, otherwise they wouldn't be continuing to try to sell it.
The sad truth is that SE can ban all of the RMT accounts they want and it's meaningless: RMTers pay for these accounts with stolen credit cards or they hack people's accounts and use their characters as spambots. The ONLY way to beat them is to take the market for gil away from them, period. NOTHING ELSE is going to work... -
07-20-2015, 11:35 AMDererk
I still say no and there's a good example of why it will never happen.
FFXI its been plagued by bots for years and the like but they never put in what your asking for.
You put something like this in it would have a high chance of ruining this game this is not a free for all pvp game like eve and in no way dose it have a place here.
What we do need is a better way to report bots because I will never type out a full report because I'm a slow typer seriously I'm chicken pecking this as I type that's one of the reasons these people never get reported too many of them and a long a?? Report to fill out not to mention it doesn't help that there's no auto translate that you can use in it I mean for crying out loud even the server names sent in it you can't honestly tell me ever person can spell their servers name in already bad with spelling for crying out loud WTH SE.
Then we have to type out the stupid bots long a?? Names that would take a master code breaker a full year to find out if it even makes sense to call it a name. Then you gotta type in WTH their doing.
And the other real problem is the people buying Gil with their moms credit card lets admit it these people are scum. We need harsher punishments for these people. I'm not talking a 1 week suspension I'm talking more suspended till next patch. -
07-20-2015, 12:48 PMRichardButteThat's not really an argument against it, though. That's an argument that SE needs to do something...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dererk
How would it ruin the game? You do realize WoW has items you can buy on the store for real money and sell in game on the AH, right?Quote:
You put something like this in it would have a high chance of ruining this game this is not a free for all pvp game like eve and in no way dose it have a place here.
That's not what ruined WoW. The guy who ran Diablo III into the ground taking control of it is what ruined it. :p
I've actually posted a thread in this forum on that same subject. Agree completely. Why we have no "report for spamming" option on the menu when we right click is mystifying...Quote:
What we do need is a better way to report bots because I will never type out a full report because I'm a slow typer seriously I'm chicken pecking this as I type that's one of the reasons these people never get reported too many of them and a long a?? Report to fill out not to mention it doesn't help that there's no auto translate that you can use in it I mean for crying out loud even the server names sent in it you can't honestly tell me ever person can spell their servers name in already bad with spelling for crying out loud WTH SE.
Agreed, but the problem is sometimes that I'm sure some of the customers of RMT companies don't even KNOW that RMT is against the rules.Quote:
And the other real problem is the people buying Gil with their moms credit card lets admit it these people are scum. We need harsher punishments for these people. I'm not talking a 1 week suspension I'm talking more suspended till next patch.
The best way to get rid of RMT is to reduce its profit margins to the point where it no longer makes sense for them to even try to sell gil.
If I didn't know better, I'd suspect SE is taking money from RMT companies in exchange for not having the tools for players to quickly and easily report RMTers. -
07-20-2015, 01:01 PMT2teddy
It is NOT pay to win! People would be buying GAME TIME from the seller on the market.
That being said, it ain't gonna get rid of RMT who are selling currently non existent ingame gil -
07-20-2015, 07:57 PMCulfinrandirSo what does the seller of the GAME TIME get? Gil... What can that gil be used for? Buying better gear, buying runs, buying things that other people without a lot if gil can't... Looks like winning, smells like winning, is winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by T2teddy
The very definition of Pay to Win is by using real world money to buy something in a game that gives an ADVANTAGE that you'd otherwise not have or have had to work hard for. This is pay to win. -
07-20-2015, 08:58 PMDererk
This game should never be paid to win you buy game time and sell it reasoning to get rid of rmts won't happen we need a better way to report stuff so SE can actually do something about it faster.
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07-20-2015, 11:16 PMDarkova
How are y'all calling this pay to win? Its more like pay for convenience.
The player using this system is not going to be better than anyone else playing this game. No special in game items are being bought here that would change game play mechanics for those using it.
It is already easier to earn better gear that can not be bought. If they were to pay a group of people to carry them through runs they are still behind the curve cause they had to rely on others already capable of 7 manning the content.
Even if you say that using the gil to earn it faster while not being better is "pay to win" how does that effect us? They can't do anything with that gear they earned quickly.
As for PvP, which this game barely offers, everyone's ilvl has been synced which would cancel out the person who "paid to win" and decked themselves out quickly. -
07-20-2015, 11:27 PMCodeCass
I believe I remember something like this in ArcheAge....not sure if I'd want it in FFXIV though...
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07-22-2015, 04:43 AMRiinata
So as a former EVE Online player and major economist from that game, I can say that this so-called "economical destruction" has never occurred in EVE Online even though PLEX prices are currently pretty damn high. But not once has it resulted in the "creation of currency." What the system does is you have someone buy an item that is sanctioned by the developer as fair (PLEX in EVE for example) with real money. That person sells that item on the market for in-game currency and when it gets bought, the seller gets another player's currency. It is never generated by the system. In EVE, this item can then be used by the buyer to extend their subscription to the game. It's not creating currency nor is it destructive or "pay-to-win" in any way. To all those who argue that it is, I suggest you check out EVE's PLEX system. It is a fine example of how to implement a feature like this without breaking the game.
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07-24-2015, 12:31 AMMythianPay to win would mean someone would have to get a major advantage by purchasing these that no one else can get. It is a gameplay subscription. You get literally nothing else but gametime for it. If someone else in the game wants to purchase it because they can't easily afford their subscription otherwise but the person selling it can do so then there is nothing but one player paying for another players subscription going on. What are they getting that is going to help them win that you can't get? Crafted armor or weapons? You can get those too. You can even farm all the items yourself and get someone to make them. Everything in this game besides what is specifically on the Mog Station or from past events is able to be gotten by anyone else. You don't get to call it pay to win if everyone can get everything already without doing this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Culfinrandir
EVE Online already proved that isn't true in even the most remote way possible. EVE PLEX are sold worldwide to even the EU and UK with absolutely no legal issues whatsoever. PLEX is considered a content subscription and is therefore 100% legal in both EU and UK. This would be considered the exact same thing and therefore would be held under the same laws. Good try though. -
07-24-2015, 01:11 AMNyghtmarerobu
I am strongly against this. Economy's are very fickle, and any small jostle can easily make the gil not valuable, or make it more valuable. Its best to just leave this sort of thing alone, because lets face it, you won't know the actual in-game repercussions until it is allowed to happen.
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07-25-2015, 12:28 AMHavenae
"PLEXX" systems only work when the entire game revolves around thegame's economy. Like EvE. Plex wouldnt work here (as it hasnt worked in every other game besides EvE who have tried it) because the economy in this game (as well as those others) is more of a side attraction, or separate from the game's true purpose which is gear acquisition through raiding.
Simply put the economy has to be an exceptionally strong one to support a plexx or 'play to pay' type of system. -
07-25-2015, 01:10 AMBodiccaPaying for convenience is equally bad. This is an MMORPG. It's not supposed to be convenient or played out in a week. It's supposed to be a journey. A true MMO is one where players progress by putting in the play time and effort to achieve gear, skill, and yes, in-game currency. That's the entire point of the game. I would hate to see FFXIV go down that road that WoW has taken over the years: buying level 90's, tokens for gold, gear, and so on and so forth. It's nothing more than a solo player game in a multi player setting. And it's god awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkova
Let's not ruin one of the last true MMORPG's. -
07-25-2015, 01:32 AMHavenaeThis post made me laugh. There's so much irony here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodicca
Coming from an old gamer who played the Ultima Online when it first launched, played EQ when it was relevant, Ascheron's Call, ect.. Timesinks were never enjoyable. Convenience is not as equally bad as Pay to Win unless that convenience is pay to win. Which generally means you buy your gear, you buy you high level you buy stuff to augment your character. It's never usually associated with buying playtime, which is really all this is designed to do. Plex systems are no more than additional revenue for a game that is stolen by RMT companies.
RMT transactions are going to happen regardless of what you do. Even in the hay day of games like Everquest, Lineage, FFXI, ect.. RMT was present. The question is.. would you rather that money go in to the pocket of some asian based farm company complete with bots and tell spam that are quite literally making an unliscensed profit off of the game and destroying the game's economy? Or would you rather it go into the developers pockets? Not to mention the resources they spend on combating RMT that they could use elsewhere. RMT would still exist, but it wouldnt be near as problematic as it is currently.
Not only that but it affords players the ability to play the game to pay their way in.
This isnt a system that destroys or ruins games. It doesn't take away from the journey or take the point away. It works very well for a game that is accurately designed for it to work. FFXIV might not be that type of game But if it made SE some more revenue and curtailed the RMT issues this game faces then I'd be fine with it as long as it worked out well. The problem is, as I stated previously This game's economy is too weak for it, and that's just a starting point. I won't even touch how multiple servers and everything else would affect the system to a degree to render it an unstable payment method at best.
As for WoW.. I hate to burst this bubble and bring you this Sunday Paper, but this game's already went down that road. Your third to last sentence, describes this game to a TEE. -
07-25-2015, 01:37 AMBlaiseArathHonestly it seems like you're forgetting crafting as classes. Someone who RMT's these items and sells them for the large amount of gil they'd be worth would have a much easier time leveling a craft from 1-60 than any one who does not just by the sheer amount of material they would be able to afford. Same for those rare minions which people so often claim hunting is "Content"(I don't). I'm not saying that alone means we shouldn't have a plexx system, just that there are cases where it would be pay-to-win. Though perhaps your definition of such is just a little different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkova
Though Crafting is basically a large useless circle-jerk with Fieldcraft now because SE went full retard with how useful their gear should be compared to raid gear... but you know, whatever... trying to have their cake and eat it too. -
07-25-2015, 02:39 AMBodiccaThis post made me laugh. There's so much . . . something here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Havenae
By definition MMO's are time sinks, in and of themselves. What aspects of the game and which time sinks you find enjoyable are entirely subjective. That includes accumulating in game currency. A lot of players put a ton of time into crafting for the sole purpose of amassing gil. This is just one aspect of the game that buying gil would trivialize. This doesn't even begin to address opening the door to buying runs and essentially top tier weapons and gear with actual money.
Actually, it doesn't work at all. It happened in RIFT. It happened in WS. It's happening in WoW and every other game that has this feature. Anytime that a game allows you to buy in game currency it allows you to bypass content. If anything, this feature would be less devastating to FFXIV than other games due to content being gated behind content. But a horrible idea nonetheless.Quote:
This isnt a system that destroys or ruins games. It doesn't take away from the journey or take the point away. It works very well for a game that is accurately designed for it to work.
Why would any game designer think it's a great idea to let players bypass playing their game? Even if that means you need to play in order to acquire in game currency? That's the way it's supposed to work. Selling tokens only serves to bring in more money for the company and allow cyclical players their quick fix before they move on.
There are better ways to deal with RMT spam. -
07-25-2015, 06:06 AMHavenaeWorks perfectly fine in EvE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodicca
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07-25-2015, 08:05 AMDarkovaI see your point with the crafting. Though at the same time they are not buying the materials itself, they are using the gil to buy materials already farmed by players. Even though this would fall under pay to win in the sense they can level up crafting quicker, they are pretty much "paying to catch up" since they relied on the market already being in place. However, I'm not saying this shouldn't be an issue taken into consideration.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaiseArath
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07-25-2015, 08:24 AMDarkovaHow would buying this plex trivialize the amassing of gil by the players who already do it? If anything this gives them the incentive to do it more since they would use the earned gil to play the game for free. The players who do not want to take the time to farm the gil themselves will be giving Square money as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodicca
As to what content can gil bypass? None. Even if you payed a group of people to carry you, you didn't bypass the content. Also, they can't do anything with their bought top tier gear. It doesn't hurt you or anyone else since this game doesn't have open world PvP where buying gear would create such effects. They can't use it to clear additional content either since they had to pay others to carry them in the first place. They also would probably get bored and leave the game failing to earn it themselves since they were willing enough to pay others to carry them should the option exist.
I can't speak for the other MMOs, but WoW has not used the plex system we are talking about. -
07-28-2015, 11:04 AMRiinataUmmmm.... EVE does it perfectly fine. Quit being ignorant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodicca
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08-04-2015, 10:17 PMFendred
A question to all the detractors:
Wouldn't you rather have all that real life cash being spent on gil to go towards developing FFXIV:ARR instead of funding organized crime?
I mean, this isn't a hard thing to understand. The market for digital currency is never going away, so it can either be harnessed for the good of the game or by criminals.
Also, Guild Wars 2 does perfectly fine with selling its in game currency on its item store. -
08-07-2015, 08:22 PMDarkLiriel
For the love of the Twelve, why would someone suggest plexx at all? This is.. the worst system that has EVER been invented on the net. You're basically wanting this to turn into wow 2.0 based on your bullets 1 and 2.
They've already stated that they will never do this, because it goes against some countries' laws that the game is available in, thus they would have to discontinue the game and shut those servers down in order to do it. They wont. Ever. Do this.