Just give Archer a second job that would act as the mobile DPS Bard once was, like Ranger, Sniper, or Hunter. That way, Bard can focus on being more grounded and using their songs for utility and the new job can focus more on DPS and mobility.
A Simple Solution to the Change to Bard
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07-16-2015, 01:07 AMMimiluA Simple Solution to the Change to Bard
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07-16-2015, 01:11 AMSaerie
I uh.. I dunno if adding a new job branch can be called "Simple Solution" lol.
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07-16-2015, 01:13 AMMilesSaintboroguh
Sounds like some people don't want to play Bard anymore.
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07-16-2015, 01:13 AMMimiluA "Super Simple Solution"? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Saerie
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07-16-2015, 01:15 AMMimiluI haven't even gotten Bard to 50 yet, I just want more jobs and thought this would make both people who don't like how Bard is now and people who have gotten over it happy. >w>Quote:
Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh
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07-16-2015, 01:20 AMMilesSaintboroguhThen you clearly have no idea why people hated Wanderer's Minuet to begin with. People don't want to (nor should they need to) play a new job. They want to stick to a job they had liked. Wanderer's Minuet was terrible until Square made it better in a following patch. And if you think a new job can easily be churned out in a short amount of time in order to "please" people that didn't like changes to their old jobs, then you're very mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimilu
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07-16-2015, 02:02 AMMrSmileyjust so were clear, if you want dps AND mobility, then you cant have similar dps to a black mage. That's the entire issue here, having both would be unbalanced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimilu
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07-16-2015, 02:15 AMKyteStones#blm4lyfeyoQuote:
Originally Posted by MrSmiley
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07-16-2015, 02:46 AMDragoon4life
Bards aren't getting any where near the DPS BLM are not even close
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07-16-2015, 02:53 AMBrundlefly
I've done A1 and A3 with 3 bards (1 of them being myself). Bards are pretty much fine now. I wish they wouldn't have nerfed Sidewinder, but oh well, the extra DoT damage from WM makes up for that and more.
I think they are close to where Bard needs to be, they could probably tweak it slightly to boost its DPS just a bit, but people who are complaining about having 2+ bards in a group and not being able to clear it are just clueless. -
07-16-2015, 03:00 AMm3eanseanTBH there are many that flat out refuse to use WM and others that don't know how to use it effectively it would seem. I've been in groups like Bis EX where we had 2 bards and they couldn't cut the dps check. Verified by using a "pen and paper" that they were significantly behind the others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brundlefly
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07-16-2015, 03:00 AMjustinjarjar
It was a balance issue where mobility could not be balanced, this was their fix which is prob one of the better fixes. (no a need to stand in one spot buff would not work as well as WM try to never move in a primal or raid.....) I think the biggest problem right now is the clunkyness of the procs which have seen some posts on. There prob will be fixes in the future and QoL fixes for bards with WM, I doubt you will see WM go away, however.
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07-16-2015, 03:04 AMTabanA1 and A3 can be cleared with 3 decent dps and one on the floor so that doesn't really mean much =pQuote:
Originally Posted by Brundlefly
No one is going to bring 2 brd/mch to alex savage, it will just be a drain on the team, and brd/mch will always be in that situation as long as SE continues to balance them below other dps. -
07-16-2015, 03:07 AMCatwhoA good bard with a black mage will never out DPS the black mage because they're going to be giving them Foe's Requiem. Apples to apples it is the worst comparison to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoon4life
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07-16-2015, 03:09 AMjustinjarjar
Wait why is not having two BRD/MCHs bad? Most progression groups do not run double anything. That argument at this point is pointless.
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07-16-2015, 03:55 AMRaist
Adding a new job would be a rather intense change. Don't get me wrong...I would love to see a more dedicated Ranger type of job added one day. But a "simple" change would be something like damage modifier tweaks or more daring like giving auto attacks back in some fashion (maybe increase delay or something for some form of balance). Just throw them a bone of sorts to give incentive/assurances to foster more experimentation.
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07-16-2015, 04:05 AMDragoon4life
Bards just want Mobility back. WM should just use MP like the rest of the songs, and do area wide DEX damage Boost, like Foe does. Limiting the use of the new skills during WM is the Balance End of story Kind of like how the DRG new skills work. The cast bar changes how the class is played, it also make it not fun. imagine if Monks and Ninjas had cast bars. And losing auto attack is just double over kill.
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07-16-2015, 04:12 AMDante_VComparison makes no sense. Ninjas and Monks aren't ranged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoon4life
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07-16-2015, 04:25 AMDragoon4life
Yes but they do have damage boosters that when turned on stay on. WM is a damage booster. That's the comparison. Now if they (MNK NIN) suddenly got a cast bar for using the damage boosters everyone would hate it. WM should be used like the DRG skill where as it boosts a few previous skills and only new skills can be used while WM is on. Or just uses MP and Boosting DEX.
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07-16-2015, 04:35 AMSonTenseicorrection a vast majority of world first groups in 2.x ran double monkQuote:
Originally Posted by justinjarjar
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07-16-2015, 04:38 AMSonTenseiI agree with this here.. This is the answer WM should tick your mana, and NOT stop autoattack... You a bard? U need to chooseQuote:
Originally Posted by Dragoon4life
a. Restore Mana
b. Buff Casters
c. Restore TP
d. Give myself more DPS BISH
This would be the best solution imho.
Here is the issue...
BLM / SMN / SCH / WHM / AST + FOE > BRD + WM so essentially the bard wouldnt use the new abilities unless there were no casters in the party. -
07-16-2015, 04:39 AMRaist
Yeah...was somewhat disappointed we didn't get something along the lines of Valor Minuet (maybe not as strong as T4...but you get the idea). Seems like that would have been time better spent by the developers considering the penalty we take for singing. Would have been a soft nerf of sorts for BRD while keeping them in demand---and they likely wouldn't be stuck with the aftermath of trying to rebalance things.
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07-16-2015, 01:57 PMEmerald_Wyvern
Honestly it should just be a stance. You toggle it on and off giving yourself the increased damage and cast times, but it shouldn't lock out all the new abilities. What it should do is maybe add an additional proc or two to the new abilities.
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07-16-2015, 02:57 PMruskieI'd be fine just being to use the new abilities outside the stance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald_Wyvern
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07-17-2015, 06:41 AMDragoon4life
DRG is my wife and Bard is my mistress. I Main a DRG and Bard both have Pros and Cons at certain content. DRG for me was better when doing those Alex Maps and DPS check. Bard got me thru most of my EX Primals and help me master them so I could do them with my DRG. I was always a Baiter in Ramuh Ex. Even now DRG is a lil better for Bismark EX while Bard is a lil easier in Ravanna EX.
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07-17-2015, 07:20 AMReaperking386
Yoshi P. is fine with bard and so am I. Don't like the class? then find a new one or game. I understand you want to play a class a certain way, but this is not the game to do it. Try mechanic.
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07-17-2015, 07:37 AMdank1
Dont use the whole brd dilemna to blantantly push your non brd related agenda, your signature clearly says what you really want, dont act like you care about brds lol
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07-17-2015, 08:41 AMDuelleBack when they announced SCH and SMN branching from ACN, I was sort of expecting them to do so with ARC as well, at least to introduce two playstyles with bows. BRD would be long bow style (somewhat stationary with some utility) while Ranger would be mobile/focus on short bows. Sad that they never did this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saerie
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07-17-2015, 08:50 AMm3eanseanThe Devs said branching two jobs off of one class was a mistake for them and created balancing issues beyond what they thought would occur (everytime they try to increase SMN dps, it increases SCH dps beyond what they want in a healer). As a result, they said there will be no more branched jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
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07-17-2015, 11:38 AMMimiluThis was already said at the very beginning. >w>Quote:
Originally Posted by dank1
I'm just give a solution that no one else seemed to think of (even though there have been people clamoring for it since 2.0, like Duelle said), to a problem a vocal group of people have stated. -
07-17-2015, 12:04 PMDuelleI am aware of this, though as I tend to point out, this is because a) SMN and SCH serve different roles and b) job crystals are not the game-changers they should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by m3eansean
This is just mere fantasy, but imagine if equipping the Bard job crystal had altered a bunch of the baseline ARC abilities on top of giving the 5 job abilities (maybe give some shots cast times, alter the way Heavier Shot and Bloodletter procs work). Now imagine tacking on a Ranger job crystal that basically enhances existing ARC abilities. You could go as far as giving both jobs different sub-stat priorities (possibly BRD focusing on Determination and Skill Speed, while RNG would focus on Crit and Determination). The BRD relic would still be a longbow, the RNG relic would be a short bow.
Both would still be DPS and use bows, yet both would play differently.