Does anyone not see a problem here?
So 4 ranged dps and they're all casters?
Printable View
-
07-10-2015, 02:10 AMDinahDemiurgeSo 4 ranged dps and they're all casters?
-
07-10-2015, 02:12 AMDelily
Bards? Machinists?
-
07-10-2015, 02:13 AMDinahDemiurgeGauss and WM make them castersQuote:
Originally Posted by Delily
-
07-10-2015, 02:13 AMStarkbeaumont
no, what is the probleme?
-
07-10-2015, 02:17 AMDante_V
A situational tool doesn't make a class a magic caster any more than cleric stance makes a healer a dps.
-
07-10-2015, 02:17 AMDinahDemiurgeSeems a bit too homogenized no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont
-
07-10-2015, 02:18 AMDinahDemiurgeIf your bnb skills use casting bars you're a casterQuote:
Originally Posted by Dante_V
-
07-10-2015, 02:30 AMUrielparadox
Summoners bnb skills the insta cast out weight the the cast times, so by that logic smn isn't a caster.
-
07-10-2015, 02:32 AMDinahDemiurgeGreat point! Thank uouQuote:
Originally Posted by Urielparadox
-
07-10-2015, 02:34 AMT0rinNo. Have you played all 4 ranged DPS classes? They are very different.Quote:
Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge
-
07-10-2015, 02:47 AMDinahDemiurgeAnd it's physically impossible to design one without casting bars? Interesting. Ok thenQuote:
Originally Posted by T0rin
-
07-10-2015, 02:50 AMT0rinOf course not... BRD didn't have cast bars for a long time. The question is, why boil down the different between ranged DPS classes to whether or not they use cast bars? The playstyle is vastly different between classes.. just because they all use cast bars doesn't make them homogenized, it's there for balance. Nobody is forcing a Bard to use WM, but if they want to maximize their DPS, they should, and that means turreting. But you have a choice. Your argument is simply a gripe on the changes to the classes post-HW, but this point you are trying to make that everything is the same because of it, it sorely lacking.Quote:
Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge
-
07-10-2015, 02:51 AMMalevictonSure, that's totally what he said. The honesty and spirit for fair discussion in your comment has really enlightened me in regards to... whatever your point is.Quote:
Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge
-
07-10-2015, 02:56 AMAiseliaNot counting the developers who are making DPS checks which require you to maximize your DPS, of course?Quote:
Originally Posted by T0rin
Or the developers who gave us 2 other skills which can only be used in WM and are useful enough to not ignore? -
07-10-2015, 03:00 AMRyaz
MCH isn't a caster. When played properly, we have three abilities that use a cast bar, two of which are only used once every 30 seconds. Everything else we use is instant cast.
-
07-10-2015, 03:04 AMGreedaloxThe thread is facetious in nature... I hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryaz
-
07-10-2015, 03:07 AMT0rinNobody is relying on a Bard to hit a DPS check, that's what more "pure" DPS classes are for. Bard DPS + Foe Req is a good contribution in a party with relevant magical DPS. But really, to say that Bard cannot function with WM up, like SMN/BLM have been doing since release, is pretty silly. Of course you can, you're just not used to having to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiselia
To your bigger point, yes, the developers are pushing you into using WM to get access to that passive damage multiplier and the 54+ damage skills that go along with it. But you can toggle WM off. You can deal with mechanics and still DPS, even with cast bars.
A major theme I've seen with the release of HW is that practically all DPS classes have been expanded on and now include skills and mechanics that force them to adapt and improve. There is more for every class to deal with. There is a higher skill cap for everything. Yes, BRD/MCH were most effected from a playstyle perspective by these changes. That does not mean they cannot adapt and thrive. People that want the old BRD, well... too bad, it's gone. You can play a melee DPS if you don't want cast bars, or you can not use WM and deal with the loss of DPS. Or you can adapt. -
07-10-2015, 03:12 AMpandabearcat
As long as Bards QQ about Minuet, I will be satisfied.
Your tears fill me with joy.
Tbh though I don't care either way. Classes should be balanced in encounters (so that no class is best in every encounter, and that all classes are within some acceptable dps range on an encounter), not by mechanics and not by dummy parses. If BRD can be completely mobile and still acceptable on all encounters, thats cool too.
But I can't deny it makes me happy to see bards upset. Sucks to be you guys! -
07-10-2015, 03:13 AMSovereignAegis
I think it's lame that Bard's entire playstyle around mobility has been basically destroyed with WM.
Like they are meant to weave off-GCD abilities between GCDs and it's just a very fluid style of play. At present it does NOT feel fluid at all with WM. It feels like you're casting spells 99.9% of the time just trying to normally use heavy shot.
Machinist is new so okay... Gauss can be on them. But with Bards? It feels WRONG in every way. -
07-10-2015, 03:23 AMRyazI don't play Bard, but why do you hate them so much? Did one of them steal your candy bar or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by pandabearcat
-
07-10-2015, 03:24 AMSendohJinthey don't feel different to me. at Lv 53 BRD, Lv 60 BLM, Lv 60 SCH/SMN, BRD in WM is a lot like SMN without Aetherflow.Quote:
Originally Posted by T0rin
-
07-10-2015, 03:24 AMMalevictonYes! And then he ran away with it and there was nothing I could do! Now all is right in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryaz
-
07-10-2015, 03:26 AMT0rinOk, we get it, it changed. The bigger question is, what are you going to do? Spent your time complaining on a forum or learn and adapt and strive to be a good bard regardless of change. If you want a more fluid style of play like the old bard, try a melee DPS. One thing you can bet money on is that WM is here to stay and if you want to maximize bard DPS, you need to accept the reality of cast bars.Quote:
Originally Posted by SovereignAegis
You must not play your SMN very often.Quote:
Originally Posted by SendohJin
-
07-10-2015, 03:28 AMpandabearcat
I don't hate bard, I just like listening to them complain about cast times.
Schadenfreude and all that. -
07-10-2015, 03:39 AMDinahDemiurgeWhy the hell would someone try to learn something that isn't fun to them?Quote:
Originally Posted by T0rin
-
07-10-2015, 03:45 AMLeonusGame wise? Or life in general?Quote:
Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge
There are reasons for both actually. -
07-10-2015, 03:57 AMSendohJinwhat's SMN without Aetherflow? think about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by T0rin
-
07-10-2015, 04:01 AMDante_VA dot pet job?Quote:
Originally Posted by SendohJin
-
07-10-2015, 04:06 AMDante_V
Pallys have abilities with cast bars also, guess they are casters?
Oh wait limit breaks have cast bars also and dps have to lb sometimes so they are caster too!
Y U DO DIS SQUARE????
*cancels sub* -
07-10-2015, 04:09 AMDinahDemiurgeHyperbole too strong for mortalsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dante_V
-
07-10-2015, 04:09 AMSendohJinhow much of a pet job is SMN really? what do you do with the pet besides summon it before you start the fight? and use Contagion aka Iron Jaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante_V
-
07-10-2015, 04:28 AMSenlitenTell it it stand around and look pretty and order it to do specific things... kinda like what all those other pet classes from other mmos does at a base level.Quote:
Originally Posted by SendohJin
Oh and, @T0rin: Welcome back to the insane asylum here -
07-10-2015, 04:31 AMSendohJinwhat specific thing does a SMN ever order a pet besides Contagion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Senliten
-
07-10-2015, 04:44 AMT0rinSteady, Obey, Place, Aerial Slash, Crimson Cyclone and Radiant Shield. Though I suppose the question was rhetorical.Quote:
Originally Posted by SendohJin
Thanks. :) And yes, it's about as retarded as it always was. One day I may figure out how to restraint myself from participating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Senliten
-
07-10-2015, 04:47 AMbideogameshe can still run away, it just takes 2.5 seconds to grab your candy barQuote:
Originally Posted by Malevicton
-
07-10-2015, 04:51 AMRikkustrife
So what you are saying is that the next melee class added should be red mage? Or is 4 melees with instant weaponskills not too homogeneous?
Because I think a red mage is very much a needed class.
As to the fact they are all casters, while I do agree adding a cast time to bard's abilities was a bad idea, none of them feel the same
Machinist seems to work well with their abilities as far as other people have said, I have not unlocked gauss barrel so cannot comment on it, it just feels tacked on with bard. -
07-10-2015, 04:55 AMKayoteMeh, casters gotta cast. BRDs/MCHs gotta aim. /shrugQuote:
Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge